Quote Originally Posted by CrossyCross View Post
Honestly MammonAzrael, from Peach's response and the first part of your response, I was alreading thinking of scrapping this, but if you believe this can be salvaged, then I'll try my best.
Don't get me wrong, it could be a lot of work, but I think the concepts are there, and solid enough, that what you need to focus on is balancing the numbers. PEACH made excellent points, but I think his opinion that the class is unsalvagable is a bit pessimistic.

Quote Originally Posted by CrossyCross View Post
First off, yeah, I've been misusing 'cheesy'. I thought it was the same as broken. Stupid of me.
Not stupid, just a mistake. No big deal!

Quote Originally Posted by CrossyCross View Post
Anyway, I changed deadly skill. It's only your dex modifier now. Also, 'Archer not a Fighter' got changed a bit. You count your BAB as average for multiclassing; as if you BAB was the middle ground between awesome ragned attacks and horrible melee.
I was thinking that instead of messing with BAB so much...

True Archers get the worst BAB progression (half level). Then you have Eagle Eye at every even level, adding directly to BAB, but only applying to ranged attacks. This gives you a full BAB for ranged attacks, and doesn't make multiclassing awkward.

Deadly Skill looks much better, and an important piece of making ranged equal to melee.

Quote Originally Posted by CrossyCross View Post
As for rapid shooting, the reason why I didn't choose rapid shot was because I specifically wanted the True Archer to be better than a fighter who just took rapid shot as a feat. I changed it instead to basically rapid shot for all attacks.
Completely understandable - it needs to be superior to a Fighter with Rapid Shot. Rapid Shot is basically a ranged version of Flurry of Blows, right? Like Flurry, I don't see any reason why it can't improve as you increase in level. Say at level one it only grants a single extra attack (with the -2 penalty), but you don't have to spend a full-round action to use it. Then as you gain levels you reduce the penalty to attack and add extra attacks. This makes it much less prone to dipping, and builds consistent skills.

Quote Originally Posted by CrossyCross View Post
Sniping means if you hit with your attack after studying your opponent, you automatically critical. You have to hit first, as in roll to hit. As for confirming critical, if it's too much for an automatic crit, then yeah. You tell me if it's not. For the concentration checks, think of the True Archer as a wizard, so choose concentration DCs that way, only you don't add the spell level of the spell being cast, cause there's no spell, and you're just basically studying your opponents movements so you can predict where he'll move when you aim for his eye.
Auto-crit is probably a little strong, given that it applies for an entire turn. What about:

Snipe Attack: You may spend a full round studying a target. You may move up to your move speed while studying a target, but otherwise cannot perform any actions. If you do, as long as the target is unaware of you or is denied a Dexterity bonus to AC, the next ranged attack you make on the following turn against the target automatically threaten a critical hit if it hits. If you take any damage while studying a target you must make a Concentration check (DC 10 + damage taken) or your study is ruined and you must start studying the target anew.

Then over the next 19 levels, you gain various bonuses, from extra attacks to bonuses to attack, damage, and crit confirmation rolls.

Quote Originally Posted by CrossyCross View Post
I changed improved range according to your suggestion, though I'm keeping overdraw 1 to 1 for now.
I would keep the text that I had in parenthesis. As it is now, it's ambiguous if you still apply the Far Shot bonus after doubling the range of your bow.

It is fine to keep Overdraw as it, but I'll reiterate that it likely will just gather dust.

Quote Originally Posted by CrossyCross View Post
Multishot: You do know that multishot is basically just manyshot and improved manyshot together, right? Improved Manyshot takes off a limit to how many arrows you can fire. Admittedly, it's in epic level, but still, it's the same thing.
The big difference is that Manyshot requires a standard action, which means it can't be used with full attacks, or bonus attacks. It's extremely limited. Multishot has none of those restrictions. Or rather, it did. Now...well, now you've nerfed it too much! First, I'd probably switch Rain of Arrows and Multishot. After that, I'd let multishot add an additional arrow (just 1) to each attack you make, with a -2 to -4 penalty, and perhaps add an additional arrow at 20th or so.

Quote Originally Posted by CrossyCross View Post
Anyway, I changed Eagle Eye so that's it's just a bonus to hit, so no bonus attacks. Does this mean I can changed Multishot to a no limit one? With the nerf, it basically is manyshot and turns into improved manyshot the moment you turn level 21, which coincidentally the same time you can get that feat.
Eagle Eye looks much more balanced. Still a great boost, but not broken. And as I stated above, you missed one of the key limitations of Manyshot.

Quote Originally Posted by CrossyCross View Post
For hidden shooter, I changed the bonuses.
Looks fine, though you can drop the table and just say they get a +5 bonus if they have total cover or total concealment.

Quote Originally Posted by CrossyCross View Post
As for precision, what I put in right now was wrong, disregard that. I just put it in to have something there.
I liked your suggestion that it's basically just a bonus to hit for when you're taking penalties, but the problem is that there's already stuff like that. Improved Precise Shot already negates all concealment and cover penalties.
Unless...do you take penalties when you're entangled? Or like a spell that physically weakens you? If you do, precision could perhaps be an ability that negates those penalties, like focus under duress. But I don't know how to word that if there is. I'll need help.
I'll point you up to the suggestions I made for the Sniping ability. And while Improved Precise Shot does negate things, it's also got heft perquisites than you many not want.

Quote Originally Posted by CrossyCross View Post
Improved Hidden Shooter: Yeah, for some reason I missed what you said.Your suggestions are all good. Question is, just one of them, or both?
I'd go with both, at least to start with.

Quote Originally Posted by CrossyCross View Post
Deadly Precision: Uh-oh. You gain sniping bonuses for ALL attacks in the next turn. Overpowered then, huh? tell me how much even with the nerf.
Oh, I see the confusion. I was assuming when you said "sniping" you were referring to the sniping action in the Hide skill, which only allows for a single attack. If you were talking about the sniping ability from your class...well, this is why I suggest you change the name to something like Snipe Attack, to avoid this confusion. It doesn't help that Hidden Shooter refers to the skill ability, and not the class ability.

And yes, still way too powerful. You realize that extra damage would be multiplied on a crit, right?

Quote Originally Posted by CrossyCross View Post
Elemental Shot: It came from the original class from the D&D wiki. I thought it would be a way to cause more damage than normal, reserved for boss encounter, or for when the Sniper meets an enemy immune to critical. I weakened it. Tell me what you think. Also, it neutralizes poison because the arrow turns into its element. I don't think a poison would remain viable if it's on fire, or in contact with acid, or supernaturally cold, or not sticking to the arrow because it's lightning. Poison stays with golden arrow because it just turns into (magical) gold.
Golden Arrow: No, you do not critical with this. Ever. Unless you're a sniper, then you auto-hit and crit.
For both augments, I'd rather it stay at higher levels. As for what mental stat, what should I use? Intelligence? Wisdom? Or charisma? I'd rather it stay this way, but if you really think so...
The reason I suggest tying it to a mental stat is because right now this class is extremely SAD. While that may be good for optimization, it is not the hallmark of a well-designed class. As it stands now, the only stat you really care about it Dexterity. If I were playing something a ludicrous as a 16 point buy game, I'd be tempted to just get an 18 in Dex and 8 in the other 5 stats. That is how little this class makes me care about the other stats. If you do tie in another stat, I'd suggest either Int or Wis, depending on which you think fits better.

The weakened damage seems fine. Alternately, Elemental Arrow feels like it can be a variation of a Smite Evil Attack, with increasing usages per day and static damage bonuses.

The description doesn't give the feel that you're transmuting the arrow into some elemental bolt - it says the True Archer imbues the arrow, which implies to me that the arrow itself doesn't change at all. And it certainly doesn't seem to be unbalancing to not destroy poison.

As for Golden Arrow...I'm not sure. Auto-hitting is nice, but I don't know what the ultimate attack bonuses are going to look like, and if they're high enough then you'll be hitting most of the time anyways. I'd say that this ability is probably fine for now, but should probably be looked at closely once the dust settles elsewhere.

Quote Originally Posted by CrossyCross View Post
Rain of Arrows: I nerfed it. No more rapid multishot of golden elemental arrows. Just four shots of golden elemental arrows at the max. Honestly, I want to keep the DC the same, so that it scales at higher levels. Tell me what you think.
Better, but it still feels off. What do you think about the following:

Rain of Arrows: You can fire arrows with incredible speed, blanketing an area with a staggering number of shots. As a full-round action you may fire as many arrows as you choose (up to twice the number of arrows you are normally capable of firing as a full attack) at a 5' radius circle. You make a single special attack roll against AC 20, using only your base attack bonus, your Dexterity modifier, your MENTAL modifier, and any penalties (from range, rapid shooting, etc). If the attack hits, your arrows land in the targeted location.

If you miss, the arrows land somewhere - roll 1d8. This determines the misdirection of the attack, with 1 being straight back at you and 2 through 8 counting clockwise around the targeted area. The attack is off by 5 feet for each point you missed the target AC of 15 by.

Any creature in a square where an arrow lands takes damage as if hit by 1 quarter of the arrows you fired. A target may make a Reflex save for half damage (DC 10 + half your class level + your Dexterity(mental?) modifier).

First pass inspired by the volley rules in HoB. Thoughts?

Quote Originally Posted by CrossyCross View Post
Killing Shot: It's a minus to hit. I'm keeping the forced crit, but I dropped the coup de grace. And with the new eagle eyes, you can only get up to four attacks at level 20, disregarding magical weapons and stuff. So no, no ridiculous number of attacks.
Is this the class or skill sniping?

Quote Originally Posted by CrossyCross View Post
A note about sniping though, since its lethality is from specific aiming, should I make it so that when splitting or multiplication of arrows you only critical with one arrow? Because unless the multiplied arrows all hit one spot, it doesn't make any sense for all of them to critical.
I'm inclined to say yes, only one arrow per attack. The other arrows should have the chance to crit, since you can just get lucky, but only one should auto-crit.

Quote Originally Posted by CrossyCross View Post
Instinctual Lethality: If you think it's not good enough, well, I don't really know what else to give the Volley Archer, since most of the problems seem to come from it.
The issue is that crit is just the occasional number boost. Having new and unique options are more interesting. I'm currently unsure what a good choice will be, but I'll let you know if I think of anything.

Quote Originally Posted by CrossyCross View Post
Slaying Shot: Changed it to slayer. Also, perhaps it should instead be like

When sniping, you double the critical increase, so x2 to x3, x3 to x5, x4 to x7. And I should probably change it to just bows.

So, tell me what you think.
You can change it to just bows, but if you do everything should be bow-specific. Or you could just have all abilities key off ranged attacks, to allow the class some variety in non-bow weapons.

And like Instinctual Lethality, the crits are nice, but they're unexciting. It's just bigger numbers. What about trick shots, something like Penetrating Shot, ranged combat maneuvers, called shots, and so forth?

Quote Originally Posted by strider24seven View Post
@MammonAzrael:
I did indeed choose Souldrinking and Marrowcrushing over Wounding and Enervating because of the critical hits... on a normal weapon (crits on a 20), that translated to 2 "guaranteed" criticals with 40+ attacks. And because I like the BoVD
And apparently Enervating only applies to crits. Whoops, guess your BoVD choices were the right calls!