If he is not being more careful with how MitD acts within the rules, then his statement that it can be figured out is both false and meaningless.Originally Posted by Rich Burlew
We have been round and round this topic before. The bottom line is: for this thread to operate, I will continue to assume that MitD is following the rules of D&D unless there is a good reason to think otherwise. Your unsupported assertion that the cart scene doesn't based on, as far as I can tell, nothing other than your gut feeling is not going to convince anyone else, and thus I will continue to listen to those whose guts feel otherwise and are willing to articulate reasons why. Trying to shut down the discussion because of an unspecified "Occam's Razor" is wrong.
We have a whole range of possibilities here. We all seem to agree that the box is reinforced, which puts its thickness at 2 inches with metal bands. We have some disagreement over the wood type, oak (840 pounds) or pine (425 pounds). For lack of an easy way to calculate it, I'll ignore the weight of the metal bands - it is likely to be small, in any case.
Now, as to moving the box, I have to say that the rules are very clear that lifting it is 2x tops
"A character can lift as much as double his or her maximum load off the ground"
However, RC did use a bit of leverage in the fact that one corner was lifted at a time. I am not going to dig through my old school notes to figure out weight reduction in that case, but I'll use .5 as a rule of thumb and for ease of calculation. After careful consideration, I will not add MitD moving around into the equation because he was clearly being a passive load in the rescue/steal attempt. He did not want to leave the circus, and we don't see either RC asking nor MitD helping at all in the endeavor (unlike later when MitD's interest in stew moves him to start leaning on the box).
From the same d20 page linked above, this is the lifting ability of the general range assumed for RC (non-melee cleric from a race with -2 STR):
Given those numbers, we see that everything up to strength 10 is insufficient for the basic pine box, even when halving the weight due to leverage. However, we can assume that he prepared for the theft by preparing a bull's strength, which would place him at 12 STR. I included up to 14 in case he managed to borrow or procure magic items for +2 strength - I find it unlikely, but not impossible. Note however that even strength 14 is insufficient for the oak box.
The margin for the pine box is also slight: at strength 14, the margin is about 280 pounds - that's an average sized medium creature (60 lb. - 500 lb.).
This isn't that great - we don't have all that many promising medium creatures, and requires some very questionable assumption involving magical items we have no evidence for and material for the box. But it is certainly a possibility, and introduces the possibility that some creatures could fit the bill other than those that float in the air.