View Single Post

Thread: OOTS #G003 - The Discussion Thread

  1. - Top - End - #23
    Ogre in the Playground

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Arad, Israel

    Default Re: OOTS #G003 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by DaggerPen View Post
    Ah, but as long as Belkar is still a gourmet chef, V's love of bakers may still save the day.
    True, but if V's gender has changed a certain way, will Belkar be willing to make the slash fans happy? And if V's gender has changed a certain way, would V's courting of Belkar upset the slash fans? Those slash fellas are an ornery bunch, and V and Belkar could cause lots of angry letters to "Gygaxian Magazine"!

    You and I seem to have similar opinions regarding DC, and I'm curious whether you also miss Cassandra Cain, Stephanie Brown and Barbara Gordon as Oracle instead of whatever they're doing with her as Batgirl now. (I also really miss the old Arrow family, too... and Superman and Lois being married... and Superman and Wonder Woman not having any romantic interest in each other whatsoever... and superheroes being allowed to get married, period... and the Amazons not kidnapping sailors impregnating themselves, killing the sailors, and having killed any male children before Hephestus started taking them in... and Wonder Woman not having a father... and the universe not generally dedicating itself to being crushingly depressing... and - I'll shut up now.)

    And yes, I know that Stephanie's coming back, I was at the mic in the panel when it was announced. But after they removed her as Nightwing in Smallville and literally recolored her in a cameo in Li'l Gotham, it was a long time coming.
    My complaints begin with the lack of narrative cohesion between the various books, and work their way down. The writers had barely any notice that a reboot was coming, unlike in 1985-86, when everyone at DC editorial were making plans for the end of "Crisis on Infinite Earths". There were too many titles launched, several with awful artwork due to the rushed deadlines. Batman's continuity makes no sense; if he's only been Batman for six or seven years, how has Bruce Wayne had three two Robins, and was able to father Damien? Why was Mr. Freeze's backstory changed? Why was Harley Quinn turned from a tragic obsessive to a stripper? Why did the Joker audition for "Face-Off"?

    I liked Grant Morrison's new take on Superman's origin in "Action Comics", but the problem is that there was no collaboration between Morrison and George Perez, who was writing "Superman", nor did Geoff Johns collaborate with Morrison or Perez, or any of the Batman writers. Johns' "Aquaman" is a disgrace. I was a long-time fan of Peter David's "Aquaman" book, and PAD showed how to use Aquaman in new ways, which Morrison and Mark Waid imitated in "JLA".

    I'll be honest that I'm not the biggest "Teen Titan" fan in the world, but the wiping away of all past Teen Titan teams is a bit of an insult to Perez and Marv Wolfman, and everyone else who's worked on the book. I'm a big Legion of Superheroes fan, and while Paul Levitz' book was okay, "Legion Lost" was just awful. What they did to Gates, one of the three non-humans on the team, is an atrocity, especially since it was done for shock value. Gates' apparently died in the first issue of "Legion Lost" when the team's Time Capsule exploded. He was later revealed to have teleported away, but was captured and subjected to a virus which warped his insectoid appearance.

    I liked "Demon Knights" and "Animal Man", but with the price increases, and the disgust I felt with many of DC's changes and their attitude to customers, I started dumping books.

    Regarding Wonder Woman, the irony is that I don't mind her having a father, but I think they dropped the ball by making her Zeus' bastard daughter. There was a better option: making her the daughter of Herakles, conceived when Herakles visited the Amazons to steal the Girdle of Hypolita as part of his Twelve Labors. In Marvel's "Incredible Hercules" series, Herc tells his sidekick Amadeus Cho about how he wooed Hypolita, and they enjoyed a night of passion, before Herc fled with the Girdle in one hand, his tunic in the other, chased by a horde of Amazons.

    Diana could have been conceived in the same way, and out of shame at being taken advantage of by Herakles (who was much more brutal in the George Perez and John Byrne stories from the post-Crisis continuity, than the Avengers' lovable goof-ball Herc is) and sought to leave the child to die. Hera, Athena and Aphrodite appeared to Hypolita, and told her to give them the child whom they turned to clay, until the day Hypolita's heart yearned for a daughter. They also blessed Diana with beauty, virtue and wisdom, and she gains her strength, stamina, and speed from her father. This way Diana's connection to her mother is preserved, and she can learn the truth about Herakles and he can become a major member of her Rogues' Gallery, or they can join forces to battle Ares or Circe.

    Otherwise, I enjoy the idea that Wonder Woman is more closely tied to Greek mythology. That way she represents the fantastic and magical, Superman represents science-fiction, and Batman represents the old pulp heroes that inspired Bill Finger and Bob Kane, like the Shadow or Zorro. That way each of the "Trinity" of heroes who headline the Justice League represent one of the three genres that every DC hero embodies.

    Any thoughts?
    Last edited by Sir_Leorik; 2013-12-18 at 12:18 PM.