View Single Post

Thread: Blackwing's exposure to the rift

  1. - Top - End - #236
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Liliet's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2013

    Default Re: Blackwing's exposure to the rift

    Wow, how epically ninja'd I was. I won't erase this whole post, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by orrion View Post
    When I say Rule of Funny trumps everything I'm referring to the Giant himself. I don't have time to find the quote right now, but there was one where he listed the "order of importance," if you will. If I'm remembering correctly, jokes topped the list.

    Whether you agree with that is something else entirely.

    You are correct in that the Giant probably won't sacrifice everything for a joke. However, that's a 2 way street. It's equally unlikely that the Giant would take a series of events that were clearly jokes and turn them into a significant plot point when it makes the story suffer. The inconsistencies with this theory do just that.
    Give me the context, then I'll have something to argue about. Until then - I'm not contradicting the Giant. I am saying the thing that is true: the Giant won't sacrifice everything for a joke.

    I agree with the conclusion, that this is most likely not about rift exposure and that this was a joke, but not with the arguments. The arguments are so horrible I've taken the risk of confusing everyone by arguing against my own point.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Linker View Post
    While no webcomic's story has enraptured me to the point where I've purchased all the books, a calendar, and a friggin' fridge magnet like Order of the Stick -- I think this one instance where people are just thinking too highly of him. Or simply misrepresenting his chain of importance in regards to rule of funny vs. plot coherence.

    The simplest and most plausible explanation, to me, is:

    #674: "Hey, it'd be pretty funny to have everyone forget Blackwing just like V spent the rest of the comic's run forgetting about Blackwing."

    #943: "I want to integrate Blackwing into the party more. Hmm... for Haley, I'll include a throwaway line where she says she was just kidding before. Elan... hah, I could just say he actually forgot. I'll throw something together for Roy and Belkar later, maybe."

    No matter what reason you think the party ignored Blackwing before, Haley saying something about why she was acknowledging Blackwing now needed to be done. He can't just give no explanation, or that'd be even weirder. This was a quick and easy explanation that -- to most -- didn't raise any questions. It's just a couple panels that serve like a switch between 'Blackwing is ignored by everyone' to 'Blackwing is treated like an actual character now.'

    The joke that they were all denying Blackwing's existence also makes it easier to justify why Blackwing wouldn't, say, just tell Roy what he saw in the rift. It allows Blackwing to serve as someone for Vaarsuvius to talk to who won't tell the rest of the party anything -- even the really important, relevant-to-their-quest stuff.

    I believe that he was referring to the fact that you present 'the characters did forget' and the 'the characters are playing a joke' as if the answer could not be 'some of them forgot and some of them are playing a joke.' Which is exactly what happened (when you take the latest strip at face value) with Haley and Elan.
    I don't think it was anything like a retcon. A retcon requires ignoring some of the previously established points. Merely finding out things about the past is not a retcon, is not bad writing, and is in fact a huge part of the plot of most books. This is what the whole detective genre is built on.

    And it was not "just" a joke, which is why the "Rule of Funny" arguments irritate me so much.

    V forgetting about Blackwing initially, beside being a joke, established an important point about this character: V doesn't care about other living beings all that much. V is ignorant to the point where ve doesn't remember vir own familiar, the only creature in the world that's unfortunate enough to rely on V's attention span to remind vir of himself.

    Several next iterations of meeting Blackwing establish that the raven is not OK with it and doesn't think it's something natural that always happens and is nothing to fret about (refuses to speak Common, prefers hunting a random lizard to finding out where his master went, gladly testifies against his master in a court, refuses to protect his master in combat).

    The continuation of the gag is about V finally facing the consequences of vir ignorance. Ve has finally remembered about Blackwing, but because of vir ignorance no-one else remembers him, even though they should. A boy crying "Wolf!" is met with disbelief when the real wolf happens. It is played for laughs, but it is a lesson to V.

    And now? Now is the interesting part: as V has stepped on the road to redemption, he started earning forgiveness. Turns out his past screw-ups were not as bad as they seemed; not everyone forgot Blackwing. This one "horrible atrocity" is let slide.

    And the fact that this chain of events is lined up so perfectly makes me pretty confident Rich has planned this from the start; maybe not in details, but the whole character arc was conceived beforehand.

    The argument that several people having different reasons for the same behavior is contrived, but that something is unlikely doesn't mean it won't happen... well, it defeats itself and says everything there is to say on the matter. I'd just like to add that it's in no way unlikely.

    And Belkar, personally, was playing prank not just on V, but also on Roy, which explains his reaction to Blackwing when he appeared before them. Roy is even funnier (from Belkar's point of view). And Blackwing's irritation? Comedy gold. Well, either that or Belkar forgot. Forgetting is not implausible and not unlikely.

    What's pretty goddamn unlikely is that there was a bird all along with the party and Roy never noticed it. It is what actually happened, but it's implausible and difficult to believe. Which serves to further establish that V's level of ignorance, while probably normal to DnD players in our world, is in no way normal or common or acceptable in-universe.

    Oh, and the reason why I don't think there will be a rift explanation? Because it invalidates the part of V's character arc this presents. It's not V's fault Blackwing stared into the rift; in fact, this was one of vir more heroic points (aka balls of steel paladin style). Blackwing being forgotten has clearly been presented as V's fault; if we nullify that, we nullify the lesson of that scene, and saying that Rich doesn't write his story for lessons is like saying you've never read a single post of his.
    Last edited by Liliet; 2014-02-11 at 12:58 PM.
    ava by me
    Where the hell have you been?
    Yes, sadly.
    Proud founder of Crystal's fanclub!

    Awesome smilies here. Thank you, HeeJay and Fawkes!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Also, as a rule of thumb, if you find yourself defending your inalienable right to make someone else feel like garbage, you're on the wrong side of the argument.
    Quote Originally Posted by FlawedParadigm View Post
    See, the reason I don't have to post much is people like Liliet exist to express nearly everything I want or need to.