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Thread: Gripes about Pathfinder

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    Default Re: Gripes about Pathfinder

    I'm gonna jump in on this thread because I recently started playing in a Pathfinder game under a friend of mine and ran into the same thing. There are lots of improvements, but many of them are just thinly draped over giant holes in the ground.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feint's End View Post
    Well as a big supporter of Pathfinder I'd like to mention a few things I think are way better than in 3.5:

    -skills are easier to access for everybody. For somebody who loves to give his characters an edge by selecting certain skills this is amazing. Between putting favoured class boni into skills to traits to pick up the extra skills you want and overall more points (due to the +3 always applying for classskills) it is much easier to customize your characters with skills. Useless skills have been ruled out or ruled together (looking at you concentration and tumble, balance and cohorts).
    I thought this was really cool until I started to build a skillmonkey... and realized I could just play any class and do the same thing. It's great that anyone can be good at anything now, but class skills themselves are also far less important beyond level 1, and it's really easy to add skills to the list. The +3 is certainly useful, but feels like it fades into obscurity pretty quickly.

    -Many, many classes have a much smoother progression than in 3.5. Now what do I mean by that? The powercurve is much smoother. If you want to play a character I can actually recommend a class to you + an archetype and say "take xy-feat and you'll be good to go". In 3.5 a lot of builds needed dips, certain feat combinations and prestige classes to work and more often than not had a breaking point where they became good .... before they were kinda meh.
    This is true, they made staying in a single class much more favorable, between favored class bonuses and abilities that scale off class level. The dearth of decent prestige classes add to that.

    -Faster Feat Progression ... I don't have to explain why this is good.
    This I feel is one of the most misleading things about Pathfinder though. I went in going "oh man, I can make some more versatile melee builds now since I'll have more feats to spread around!", only to find many tricks got their feats split, spread around, and having extra prerequisites taxed on, and then on top of that generally nerfed. I thought about making a tripper. Before, you needed Combat Expertise, and Improved Trip. From those two feats you got +4 on your trip attempt, didn't provoke an attack, and you got a free attack when you succeeded on the attempt. Nice! Now, to get the same result, you need Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Improved Trip, and Greater Trip. Why all that? Well, Improved Trip only gives you a +2 on the check, and no provoke. Greater Trip (requiring BAB +6, so you can't even pull this off at level 1 anymore) gives you that other +2, and lets you make an extra attack... as your Attack of Opportunity for the round. Meaning you don't get the one for them standing up from prone anymore, so if you want the same results, you need Combat Reflexes for more than one AoO a round. Also Dex of at least 12. The same is true for many other tricks; Bull Rush requires two feats just to have the movement provoke Attacks of Opportunity, something it did with 0 feats in 3.5. You certainly do get more feats in Pathfinder, but for replicating many things from 3.5 you often need to expend several more.

    Plus, I see a lot of that same "Sacrifice power for flavor" stuff but dumped into feats. Like, there's the feat that lets you use Tarot Cards as throwing darts for damage. Neat! ...Except that it costs you more to make the deck usable than to just buy the same number of darts, and it requires you to have to use Arcane Strike every round (using up your swift action) if you want to benefit from the feat. So much of Pathfinder for me so far has been Start reading a Feat/Ability -> Think "Hey, that could be really cool!" -> Keep reading, and become thoroughly underwhelmed. There's just a ton of traps.

    -Many classes are better and especially work much better with the ones being nerfed usually being the more powerful ones (exception is monk but monk is easily workable with using hungry ghost qinggong or zen archer qinggong without adding any other dips/prcs). I agree that bard has much less rounds BUT they also got new interesting mechanics and archetypes which actively use their rounds per day (for example soundstriker) opening a whole lot of different possibilities for playing bard. It also makes it more flexible and specified.
    This is true, in that many classes got things to fill dead levels, and several classes (Paladin, Sorcerer) got substantial buffs. Others... not so much.

    I'm doing my best to enjoy the system, but I'm definitely getting the "constrained" vibe. At least at trying to play a more martial character.
    Last edited by Terazul; 2014-05-12 at 08:45 PM.
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