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    Titan in the Playground

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    Jan 2008

    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop XX: "Barrage is the new Precision Shot."

    Guide to Siege Assault Vanguard

    Army list can be found here.

    Special Rules
    Army List: The Siege Assault Vanguard (SAV) army list has a special Force Organisation Chart. In addition to the normal 1 HQ and 2 Troops, SAV also requires one Heavy Support. In addition, the SAV has four Heavy Support slots, but only two Fast Attack slots. This should be fine. The SAV list also disallows Drop Pods, Bikes and Scouts. The former two are immensely powerful components of a Space Marine army, and if that makes you not want to play a SAV list, then don't. Scouts...Don't worry about it. If you're really worried about board control, consider picking up Kor'Sarro Khan or Raven Guard Chapter Tactics. Speaking of...

    Chapter Tactics:
    Ultramarines; Still good.
    White Scars; The SAV list doesn't allow Bikes - at all. So that sucks. However, the SAV list does make judicious use of non-Drop Pod Dedicated Transports, so Kor'Sarro giving Scout to all of those things is actually pretty useful.
    Imperial Fists; The SAV list is what Sentinels of Terra should have been. That being said, Imperial Fists are an idyllic choice. The SAV list is free. Sentinels of Terra costs money. Don't be dumb.
    Black Templars; No. You'll see why, later on.
    Iron Hands; A very good choice if you're a fan of Land Raiders, and, if not, remember that you have 4 Heavy slots, so bring those Vindicators and/or Predators.
    Salamanders; The SAV list doesn't allow Drop Pods. So Salamanders have a marked reduction in effectiveness.
    Raven Guard; If you're using Siege Assault Squads in Land Raiders, it's incredibly powerful since you gain Scout back and you don't need to waste points picking up Kor'Sarro Khan to do it. Remember that Siege Mantlets make your model Bulky. So don't bring those. Bring Rhinos.

    "A [Clan Raukaan/Sentinels of Terra] Detachment is chosen using the army list presented in Codex: Space Marines..."

    Since you are not using the army list presented in Codex: Space Marines, you may not use Clan Raukaan or Sentinels of Terra as your Chapter Tactics.

    The Siege Objective: The SO is an additional Objective, placed by your opponent, worth zero points. However, even though it's worth zero points, the SAV list can not win games unless you control the SO anyway. It sounds like a bigger problem than it actually is. Remember that every single one of your units Score, so all you need to do it put a unit - any unit - on it, so that's how that goes. The other thing you need to remember, is that you actually know this. Every single SAV list you ever make needs to be made with the knowledge that there is the SO that you need to get or you can't win. Because your opponent places the Objective, you can bet at least 80% of the time, the SO is going to be in your opponents' DZ, so, make sure you have at least one unit designed for scoring Linebreaker points. That's it. The SO is something you plan your list around. Not planning around the SO, is like building a Tyranid list without Synapse models and wondering why you keep losing.

    Warlord Traits
    1. Melee attacks gain Rending when attacking something with an Armour Value. Unfortunately, if you'll actually read the rules, Melta Bombs are not actually Melee weapons. Anyway, re-roll.
    2. Blast and Barrage weapons are Twin-Linked. Keep 'em if you've got 'em.
    3. Split Fire is nice.
    4. Gain Rampage if you're in Assault with a unit inside a Building, Fort or Ruin. Too many conditions for this to work. Re-roll.
    5. When in your opponents' DZ, gain a Hatred aura. Way more useful than conditional Rampage.
    6. Re-rolls to see if the game ends - success and failures. Which is which depends on your viewpoint and how the game is going.

    Rampage isn't great, even before you factor in the extra condition to get it, and Rending Melee attacks only against armoured targets is not great either. The other four Traits are actually pretty good. Remember your re-rolls.

    Siege Master: The Siege Master is a Captain with Artificer Armour. So, yes. He is more expensive than a vanilla Captain, but, are you seriously not taking Artificer Armour on your Captain? Really? With that said, the Siege Master pays only five points for the following;
    Signum; BS5 is really good. Remember that you can use a Signum and Auspex at the same time. Especially because you don't even have any good ranged weapons to pick up.
    Re-rolling Reserves. Self-explanatory. And, just to ape a Tau Commander even more (except not as good), at the start of the game, choose one non-Flying unit in your army, that unit gets either Tank Hunters, Monter Hunter, Interceptor or Furious Charge.

    Signum, Reserves, USR. For five points. Then you can just kit out your Siege Master like a normal Captain anyway.

    - Command Squad: Remember how you're not actually playing Space Marines? The Siege Master is the only way that the SAV list can get access to a Command Squad.
    RAW: The Command Squad can take Bikes. Grab that SO.
    Q: Can the Command Squad take any Dedicated Transport (including a Drop Pod ), or only a Land Raider Prometheus?

    Chapter Master: Just can't take a Bike. But, you also can't take Honour Guard since they don't exist in the SAV list.

    Captain: Did you see the part where a Siege Master only costs five more Points, yet does so much more?

    Librarian: Sanctic or Telekinesis. You're aiming for Gate of Infinity or Levitation, respectively. Remember that you must grab that SO, and those two Powers are some really easy ways to grab it on the last turn. Sanctic has the regular problems of extra Perils, but, remember that you can't Perils on one dice, so use a lot of those WC1 Powers and be fine. However, only ever putting one dice into a Power is really lame. So TK is really good. Go and read all of the TK Powers, right now. They're not consistent - at all. However, if you do roll not-Levitation, make sure you know what to fall back on. Make sure you understand what Assail/Strikedown does and how to use it. Telepathy is solid, sure. But...That SO.

    Chaplain: Eh.

    Master of the Forge: Another fluffy choice, especially with #2 Warlord Trait and a Conversion Beamer. Bolster Defences is helpful, but, that's what Thunderfire Cannons are for.

    Terminators: Eh. They're nowhere near as good as they once were.

    Terminator Assault Squad: Using a Siege Master, they can grab Furious Charge, but, that's about it. Decent brick.

    Sternguard Veteran Squad: Without Drop Pods, their loadout is limited to a pair of Heavy weapons in a Rhino. In extremely large point games, you might be able to take Pedro Kantor, and put them in Land Raiders. But, since Sternguard really, really want to be shooting, it's actually kind of a bad idea.

    Dreadnought: Ignore always for...
    Venerable Dreadnought: Your opponent will never roll 7s. And, even when they do, make them re-roll it. The BS5 is good, too.

    Centurion Devastators: Moving them to Elites was a nice touch, since it frees up your four Heavy slots for other things. They have more Heavy weapons than Sternguard, they're tough as bricks and don't go away. The only reason that your Librarian should roll on Biomancy, is if you have a unit of these for him to cast Endurance on. Iron Hands Chapter Tactics is always a solid choice on units with T5, but, Imperial Fists give them Tank Hunters, which frees your Siege Master to give another unit Tank Hunters - or something else.

    Techmarine: Sitting in the Elites slot is really, really bad.

    Siege Dreadnought Talon: Siege Dreadnoughts are a waste of your money and points. Ironclads all the way. Not only are Ironclads AV13, but, they also have Move Through Cover and the option of picking up Grenades, so, when they do try and Charge something, Ironclads don't derp around.
    RAW: You can give Ironclad Dreadnoughts Drop Pod.
    However, double-RAW: If you do mount them in Drop Pods, you'll never be able to deploy them because of their special Deployment rules. So...Don't do that.

    Tactical Squad: The same as any Tactical Squad, however can't take Drop Pods, which makes Ultramarines sad. The only real difference is the option to pick up Siege Mantlets. Giving your squad Mantlets is a flat cost, no matter how many models are actually in the squad. So, if you take five models, you're spending a lot of points on few models. If you have ten models in the squad, you're spreading the points over more models, so it doesn't actually hurt you as much when one model is removed. The problem with large squads, is that since Mantlets make you Bulky, and you can't pick up Dedicated Transports, your only option is a Land Raider, which limits your squad sizes if you want to do that sort of thing, which you shouldn't. Not really. Because you've got access to Siege Assault Squads.

    Centurion Assault Squad: Moving them to Troops is a huge boost. Unfortunately, not big enough. Just because they're Troops, it doesn't mean they stop being a Centurion Assault Squad. If you plan on using them at all, you'll need a six-man squad, not that that will make the squad good. You're just throwing more points into a bad unit. ...Did you have a look at how many points three Ironclad Dreadnoughts are? Maybe you could use a Dreadnought Talon instead.

    Siege Assault Squad: A Siege Assault Squad is an Assault Squad-on-foot, that can only take Land Raiders (any type) as a Dedicated Transport, and have the Crusader rule, and can pick up two Special Weapons. Remember why you aren't playing Black Templars? This unit is it. You can give the whole squad Melta Bombs at 3 Points per model, which is stupidly good, and you can give them Combat Shields at '2.5' Points per model, which isn't as good, because 6++ saves aren't actually that good, especially if you spend half your time sitting in a Land Raider. Remember that you have Combat Squads, and there's always potential abuse for that.
    Remember: If you just want to field Land Raiders as Dedicated Transports for Troops, there's always Blood Angels. The SAV list just allows access to other Space Marines units. If all you want to do is field Land Raiders, Blood Angels are probably the better choice.

    Fast Attack
    Assault Squad: Not being able to take a Drop Pod reduces their effectiveness considerably. Ignore for...

    Vanguard Veteran Squad: Moving them to Fast was probably a good idea. They still have the same problem as they do in the Codex Marines list. But, if you aren't willing to shell out for Land Raiders on Siege Assault Squads, you can spend those same 'Land Raider Points' on boosting up the Vanguard and grabbing a few more Storm Shields than you normally would. Remember that Siege Objective and how you need it to win? Just remember that in the SAV list your Fast slots are limited.

    Stormtalon: In the last turn (go second) switch to Hover on the SO. Good job! You did it.

    Stormraven: Moving to Fast was a bad idea. You have more Heavy slots and less Fast slots. Fast is exactly where the Stormraven doesn't want to be. While the SAV list's Fast slot isn't cluttered with Bikes and Land Speeder options that you weren't going to take anyway, Stormtalons are still around and still plenty good.

    Heavy Support
    Devastator Squad: Missile Launchers. How easy. Remember that your Siege Master also comes with a Signum for two BS5 shots. Warlord Traits also allow you to re-roll your Frag Missiles or pick up BS5 Split Fire which is never bad. Not only is Skyfire exceptionally rare, but, your Devastators can get it, and then the Siege Master can also give them Interceptor which Space Marines don't have at all outside of Fortifications. Again, because the SAV list is secretly an Imperial Fists army list in disguise, if you actually make them Imperial Fists, your Devastators also pick up Tank Hunters which means any and every Flier that even attempts to enter airspace isn't going to have a fun time. If you do have a Weapon Fortification, remember to abuse your Signum.

    Thunderfire Cannon: Always a good choice. Will never not be.

    Predator Tank Squadron: Now in squad form! However, we've finally hit our first snag when it comes to 'Totally free rules, ZOMG!' A Predator Tank Squadron has the Relic rule. It might be a misprint that's only supposed to apply to the Deimos Predator, however, that's not what the rule says. Basically, a Predator Tank Squadron is 0-1, unless you have a Master of the Forge, which you probably don't. Still, if you need to bring more than three Predators in your army, you're probably doing something catastrophically wrong. But, otherwise...Predators.

    Artillery Support Squadron: The first Whirlwind is 65 Points, with each subsequent Whirlwind 85 Points. This more than likely has something to do with turning Barrage into Multiple Barrage, and is probably not actually a misprint. But, if it is, it's a misprint that actually makes sense. If you actually plan on taking extra Tanks that aren't Whirlwinds, don't, and take advantage of your extra Heavy slot, since you're paying for Multiple Barrage that you aren't actually using, and that's a really terrible idea.

    Vindicator Tank Squadron: Vindicators in Squadrons. They do their thing.

    The SAV list counts as a Space Marines list. With that said, your key Allies choice is anything that can Score Linbreaker points and grab your SO for you, as there is no rule stating that the SO must be held by a SAV unit. So, Ally with your own Space Marine Battle Brothers and grab a few Drop Pods, or anything that can Outflank.

    Neither of these Guides have been updated for 7th, but they will provide a starting point...
    Forge World Space Marine Chapters and Characters
    Imperial Armour Volume 2 (Second Edition), which is where half the non-Land Raider power of the SAV list actually lies if you can afford it.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2014-06-23 at 12:50 AM.
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