Quote Originally Posted by Prince Zahn View Post
I hope you don't mean binding DCs, because that's not a priority yet. I mean saving throw DCs from vestiges - let's not dwell on it too much:
"The DC for any saving throws required by your binder abilities and any abilities and spells granted to you by vestiges is equal to 8 + Your Proficiency Bonus + your Charisma Modifier." Rephrase if necessary. NEXT!
Oh, right. Yeah, DC for vestige ability works just like a spell save. I did mean the binding DCs; I want to get a rough idea of what the baseline is so that as we convert vestiges, we can start thinking about balancing them, and adjusting the pact DC by a point or two is one of the ways I plan to do that. I'll hold off until we can get some archetypes sorted though.

Quote Originally Posted by Prince Zahn View Post
Though for the record, nobody needs to know the legends by heart, it's mostly story material, which IC the Binder will either learn on his own or via an NPC. No flash cards are really required for that.
Indeed. In fact, my notes in the margin include a reminder that there's great plot-hook material here: as I think I've suggested before, a DM could easily say to a binder who's close to levelling up that they uncover rumours or fragments of information about a vestige whose name has long been forgotten, prompting a quest to find a lost temple in which lies the ancient texts of a dead cult, in which the name and seal of a vestige are recorded... or something like that.

Quote Originally Posted by Prince Zahn View Post
you forgot to put in 4th level spells somewhere, if you have to give a binder normal access to normal spells, at least pay him minimum wage.
I did. I adjusted the spellcasting down a little from Arcane Trickster because the Binder gets spellcasting anyway from the vestiges, but I changed my mind not long after when looking at the spell lists and thinking through what sort of combinations you'd get. The standard 4-level progression should be fine.

Quote Originally Posted by Prince Zahn View Post
I don't know if I'm that keen on the binder getting permanent "side effects" from his involvement with vestiges. A: because he's already persecuted enough as it is. Having permanent signs is much harder. and if half of what they're saying is true, then eternal damnation is already a big enough side effect. and B: he gets tons of signs from vestiges, and some of which can already be used in combat. This is redundant IMO.
I really like the idea of the binder getting something other than vestiges. Currently, a binder who hasn't had a chance to bind anything yet has veeery little going for them, which I don't like. It's true that some of the things granted by the archetypes as I currently have them may also be granted by vestiges (or something similar, at least) but a) just bind something else, and b) that's why I'm trying to come up with mostly-new things.

Quote Originally Posted by Prince Zahn View Post
I may have said this before, don't remember... I have a different idea for what you could do with subclasses.
My idea is to focus on a binder's affiliation with pact magic (I.e. there are different career directions a binder might choose to follow) that might double as pact-magic factions in a campaign, which would give the binder class features with a unified theme from early level and throughout mid-levels. It would also reserve some of the vestiges to be accessible only via these subclasses, who share a common color and theme for a binder who favors a specific role.

I'm thinking of the format being similar to Cleric's Domain (learning a few vestiges who have something in common throughout a set of levels, at least 1 or 2 of which are exclusive to the subclass; gaining a few new abilities the binder could rely on independently from his chosen vestiges, and one that adds a new option to an existing class ability in an exclusive way... Perhaps Pact Augmentation? but that could be the sleep deprivation talking...)

As of right now, I'm thinking of three subclasses: ______ of the Prince (starring Tenebrous, focusing on dark and demonic powers), ______ of the Emperor (crowning Dantalion and dealing with vestiges and abilities who revolve around magic and mysticism) and the ______ of the Duke (featuring Zagan, focusing freaky changes to the binder's body to take down foes) I will try to build the exclusive star vestiges to be worth the same level, which would make placing fitting them into an archetypes easier :3 another nice thing I could do for bonus points is to work like WotC into offering multiple levels of complexity for whoever wants. This is in the works and in the idea stage presently, I'm posting what I have before it gets any further so I don't get as disappointed if you all say it sucks
I'm not entirely sure I like the idea of limiting vestige availability... when you liken it to Cleric Domains, I think it sounds alright - most vestiges available to everyone, just one or two per level that are restricted... except that 2 per level with 3 archetypes is 6 per level, which is actually all the vestiges there are at some levels. Most levels, in fact. The other thing is that with things like Cleric Domains, there are other spellcasting classes who can access those spells, whereas Binder is the only one who uses vestiges.

One thing that did occur to me is that Warlock gets two options: their pact, and their patron. So now I can't help wondering whether it'd be too complex to have both. You could always have a "core" set of vestiges, and then have variants that you can pick, whereupon you lose access to some of the "core" vestiges, and gain access to some special ones in their place. That makes it less about building up the character, and more about taking an already fully fleshed out character and modifying them. Doing it this way also lets you try a vestige out at an earlier level, before the point where you choose your "domain" and lose access to it.

Quote Originally Posted by Prince Zahn View Post
(working on a general name for them, and these names are tentative and all. Also, I'm not at ease with stealing the name "Binder Fates" which I admit is a wicked name. I'm thinking about "Constellations", or "Pledges", but again - it's tentative)
Yeah... I like naming things "Pledges" works nicely - there's a nice link to "pact", and thematically "pledge" is also a kinda watered-down version of "Oath" (as in Paladin) which implies a code of conduct, which gives a nice explanation as to why you've decided that certain vestiges are off-limits.

As a side note, Warped Binder is mechanically following Knight Of The Sacred Seal quite heavily, using inspiration from 5e's Barbarian to work out how those mechanics convert over. Flavour-wise, it's totally different though. Awakened Binder aims to emulate Anima Mage, though this time the flavour is a pretty faithful conversion while the mechanics are somewhat different. Unfettered Binder is mostly new, filling the most obvious third role that's not covered by the other two.