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    Apr 2010

    Default Re: 3.5e Overhaul – Fixing ALL 3.5e's problems (P.E.A.C.H)

    Quote Originally Posted by Brova View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    Too much work, too little gain. Not gonna happen. Let's move on.
    So having to go through every single spell to spot check it for power level issues is less work than whitelisting spells that do what you want? I don't understand that position at all.
    The only spells I know of that are so CL-broken are blasphemy and its counterparts. That doesn't seem to me like a lot to handle.
    Anyway, I heard you, so Spellpower Mage feature has been rewritten to prevent CL abuse. ATM, off the top of my head, I can't remember any means of bumping CL other than via the modified CArc Cooperative Spell feat (see the "Spell Cabal" spoiler in post #4).



    Quote Originally Posted by Brova View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    You stand by the door at the other side of the big room, bringing in the 2nd wave and splitting, shutting the door behind you.
    I can describe dozens of different scenarios where this could be viable.
    So I'm going to wander around with a pack of uncontrolled undead and hope I can shunt them into areas with enemies? That seems like a super terrible plan. Also, what are they doing when not controlled? Following last instructions? Seeking and destroying the nearest living beings? Standing around?
    No, you wander around with a pack of controlled undead, then you bring in the 2nd wave, then vanish and let them wreak havoc.



    Quote Originally Posted by Brova View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    This is not a char-op discussion. You asked for theme and options. There's always something better than solution X – that doesn't mean that solution X doesn't work or is not viable.
    What? My point is that the ability makes you better at casting web et al, rather than gives you a big familiar type critter. Not that one of those strategies is better. And it is absolutely a CharOp discussion. The fundamental problem with 3.5 is that it presents options as equally viable when they are not. If you have not fixed that, I am not convinced you have fixed anything.
    1. There's no game in the world where all options are equal all the time. The situation changes constantly. That's the whole point of the game – strategy in design and in-game tactics.
    2. I don't see how CL affects glitterdust and web in any way. Even the former lasts for the entire encounter by 6th level without any strategy.
    3. The angle of "either you made everything perfect or you've utterly failed" is nonproductive.



    Quote Originally Posted by Brova View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    1. As if casters need help.
    Fear Stacking was a viable-ish build for Dread Necromancers and Sublime Chords. And frankly, neither of them was too good. So you've removed viable options for no reason I can discern.
    I don’t know of any Sublime Chord feature that's associated with fear. I'm assuming you refer to the War-Chanter's "Inspire Awe" feature (and it's not stacking, but rather a more devastating effect depending on HD diff), which the codex' Bard comes with built-in. Actually, my proposal is closer in spirit to stacking than the War-Chanter's "Inspire Awe".
    I also see nothing in the DN's features regarding stacking fear effects.



    Quote Originally Posted by Brova View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    2. I don't remember noncasters ever having all the proposed options using the official rules.
    There was a Fighter variant (Z-something), also technically Samurai.
    Zhentarim Soldier (CoV web-enhancement) is a deception. The whole point of substitution levels is to trade something. The Zhentarim Soldier conveniently trades nothing. To make bast use of this option, you need Imperious Command feat and Fearsome Armor (DotU).
    Putting that note aside, since I didn't ban Imperious Command, all options are on the table and a lot more.



    Quote Originally Posted by Brova View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    You kind'a skipped the "Nevertheless…" part – and more importantly, you didn't express an opinion regarding my proposal for the Warrior.
    No, "mundanes emulate RL, casters don't" is bad design. It means that mundanes are worse than casters.
    According to that, D&D is bad design.
    Explanation: 3.5e models RL beautifully as far as feats, skills, skill-tricks and conditions go. To date I haven't found or come up with anything that comes even close. Why would they bother if not to make the game atmosphere feel as real as possible? You can always draw from other, less realistic games, if you don't like that aspect of 3.5e. For me – that's the beauty and allure of the game.



    Quote Originally Posted by Brova View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    1. Says who? Counts for what? Where is that written?
    2. Nowhere in my codex do I claim to support nonofficial 3.5e materials from any source whatsoever.
    What is "official 3.5 material"? What's the line? Because I guarantee that wherever you draw that line, there are spells the Mage is getting way earlier than he's supposed to.
    In the context of my overhaul codex, "Official" = [3.Xe materials that carry the "Wizards of the Coast" trademark].
    Web enhancement materials are evaluated on a case-by-case basis and are addressed explicitly in the codex when relevant.



    Quote Originally Posted by Brova View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    When I say "fullcaster", I categorically refer to a class with 9th level spells. No exceptions.
    I don't understand how that's relevant here.
    No SL cheese (such as Animate Dead at 2nd SL).



    Quote Originally Posted by Brova View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    I don't subscribe to that perspective, and neither does anyone I ever played with.
    1. There's more power potential from behind the scenes, when you're not in the spotlight.
    2. Kingdoms are not run by rulers that go on adventures.
    That's not a perspective, that's how legitimacy works.
    Is that so?
    How many rulers of nations in the history of the world were among the most devastating opponents of their time one-on-one? Genghis Khan, Attila the Hun, King David, Charlemagne, a handful of early days' China conquerors… (and a few more here and there that currently don't come to mind). The overwhelming majority were not.



    Quote Originally Posted by Brova View Post
    Going way back up, what does your codex do for the economy/kingdom management/mass battle minigames 3.5 lacks?
    My codex doesn't address economy/kingdom management/mass battle minigames etc. To date I don't have suggestions for improvements on those angles (but if you have any, bring them on).



    Quote Originally Posted by Brova View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    Good luck orchestrating that one on a regular basis while adventuring.
    If there is a way to get disproportionate power, PCs will get it. Period.
    I see nothing disproportionate about going out of your way for some situational HP and +2 to Str, just poor strategy. I assume you'd usually lose the HP race to damage for not putting your resources where it counts.
    Anyway, rethinking that spell makes me realize that it probably needs some constraint regarding one's HP source, but this one seems like no biggie to me.



    Quote Originally Posted by Brova View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    Fair enough.
    Wish spell does not allow instant creation of magic items. That one always takes time and the usual chances for success/failure.
    Only deities can do that – through means that the rules don't specify.
    Eh. Not an ideal fix, but workable. I like a Wish Economy type fix better.
    What is this Wish Economy type fix you're talking about?
    Last edited by nonsi; 2015-09-10 at 03:33 AM.