1. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Deepbluediver's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    The US of A

    Default Re: Weapons & Upgrades Fix (for use with 3.5 & Pathfinder)

    So here's how this works- weapons can be any one of 7 (SEVEN) different qualities, or grades. "Regular" is what's listed in the chart in the first post. In order to figure out what the appropriate damage for a higher (or lower) quality weapon is, find the damage listed in the Regular column for the weapon and size, and them move horizontally to the appropriate column to find that weapon's damage for that quality.

    For example: a medium, regular shortsword would normally deal 1d8 damage; masterwork medium shortsword instead deals 3d8 damage.
    Another example: a large regular guisarme normally deals 2d8 damage; an superior large guisarme deals 2d12 damage

    Weapon Damage
    Crude REGULAR Superior Exceptional Masterwork Perfected Legendwrought
    1d1 1d2 1d3 2d2 3d2 4d2 5d3
    1d2 1d3 1d4 2d3 3d3 4d3 5d4
    1d3 1d4 1d6 2d4 3d4 4d4 5d6
    1d4 1d6 1d10 2d6 3d6 4d6 5d8
    1d6 1d8 1d12 2d8 3d8 4d8 5d10
    1d8 1d10 2d8 2d10 3d10 4d10 6d10
    2d2 2d3 2d4 4d3 4d6 5d6 6d8
    2d3 2d4 2d6 4d4 4d8 5d8 6d10
    2d4 2d6 2d10 4d6 4d10 5d10 7d12
    2d6 2d8 2d12 4d8 4d12 6d12 9d12
    2d8 2d10 3d10 4d10 5d12 8d10 10d12

    I tried to stick to a few basic standards when building this chart. If the damage for a regular weapon is "1" (or 100% if you want to think of it that way) then the multiplier for Superior weapons is 1.5, for Exceptional its 2, for Masterwork it's 3, for Perfected it's 4, and for Legendwrought it's 6. This goes in roughly a +50%>>+33%>>+50%+33%>>+50% pattern, which is the best I could do working with rounded numbers. Also, I tried to keep the number of dice you'd be rolling in check- it would be really easy to get very consistent averages just by using tons of d3 and d4, but IMO that's boring, so I increased the size of the dice when I could, and rounded up a lot.

    Spoiler: The damage is to much damage!
    Show
    There are already some things in the RAW rules that can increase the damage you do with attacks, such as ToB maneuvers, certain feats, that shock-trooper build, special weapon enchantments, etc. A lot of them are non-core, and I get the impression that's because the designers only realized later that they had badly balanced the core melee classes, and they were trying to add in options to compensate. And while damage is powerful and important, IMO it's also extremely straightforward, to the point of becoming boring.
    My goal, ultimately, is to concentrate the majority of damage-improvements in weapon quality, and allow players to reserve their class abilities and feats and magic items for other stuff that is more interesting.

    For now, I leave it up to other GMs to determine how best to implement this fix (if they choose to use it) in their gameworld. You have a better idea than I do what kinds of shenanigans your players might get up to, and what level you want to allow. If you decide to cap weapon quality at Masterwork, for example, because you think the damage on Perfected and Legendwrought stuff is to high, that's just fine. I'd love to hear how it works out anyway.


    Optional Rules
    • Combat Maneuver Check Bonus- as a weapons quality increases, so does it's damage but also so does the benefit to combat maneuvers you may make.
    • BAB Requirement- if you are concerned about someone in your group arming hordes of peasents with high-quality weapons and sending them off to fight dragons, implement a BAB requirement; anyone who does not have high enough BAB takes a non-proficiency penalty.
    • Suggested level- this is about where I think your campaign can utilize this quality of weapon without it drastically unbalancing things. Obviously it will vary a lot by group, and I encourage you to modify this system to fit with your group's playstyle.



    Crude Regular Superior Exceptional Masterwork Perfected Legendwrought
    Maneuver Bonus
    +1 +2 +3 +4 +5 +6 +8
    BAB Requirement
    +0 +0 +1 +3 +6 +10 +15
    Suggested Level
    1-5 3-8 6-12 9-16 12-20 16-25 21+


    Weapon Cost
    I'm gonna take a moment to talk about Crude quality weapons.
    Crude represents weapons that were made by unskilled labor, or from inferior materials, or were better weapons that decayed through lack of maintenance. It also represents improvised weapons. A kitchen-knife is not the same as a dagger. A blacksmith's hammer is not the same as a mace. Items intended for combat are specialized with that goal in mind- you shouldn't try to use a warhammer and brass knuckles to replace a carpenter's tools either. But sometimes you don't always have a nearby weaponsmith you can shop from, and you've got to march off to war with whatever sharp or heavy implements you scrounged up from around the farm.
    So a kitchen knife can be represented in combat by giving it the stats of a crude dagger. A blacksmith's hammer is a crude mace. A stick you grabbed off the ground is a crude club, a rock is crude brass-knuckles, etc etc etc.

    Ok, back to the cost in gold. The value of a crude weapons is 20% of a regular weapon of the same type. A superior weapon is 50 times the cost of regular weapon. After that point though, the individual differences in a weapon start to be less important than the skill and materials required to craft it. So from Exceptional upward, there is a base cost plus modifiers. The modifiers stack addidtively, not in a multiplicative manner, so for example two +50% modifiers make a weapon that is 100% more expensive (or double), rather than 125% more expensive.
    [just to clarify, the modifiers would also apply to a regular or superior-quality weapon made from special materials]

    QUALITY COST
    Crude original x 1/5
    Regular default
    Superior original x 50
    Exceptional 18,000 gp
    Masterwork 56,000 gp
    Perfected 172,000 gp
    Legendwrought ~500,000 gp*

    Modifier Change
    Unarmed -50%
    Light -25%
    Simple -25%
    Exotic +25%
    Two-handed +50%
    Silvered, Cold-iron +25%
    Darkwood, Krystal +25%
    Mithril, Adamantine +50%

    The prices given here are roughly based on 1/4th to 1/3rd of your WBL of the mid-point of the level range when I would suggest start having weapons of that quality appear in your game. However the WBL chart and the economy in general in 3.5 are severely bjorked, and I supplied this section only because when I first did my armor upgrade system some people asked for guidance at pricing gear. I would strongly advise people to use whatever WBL system they find works for them, and figure out ways to give or let players obtain gear as appropriate for the level of challenge the game is presenting.

    *A note about Legendwrought weapons
    Although there is a value listed for Legendwrought weapons, they are effectively priceless. There simply isn't a market for stuff of this rarity and infamy- it would be like trying to put a price on the Statue of Liberty or some other massively important cultural monument or familial icon. Anyone who possesses a Legendwrought weapon is already so powerful that material wealth is largely irrelevant to them (except, perhaps, as a way to motivate lesser beings). Anyone who comes into possession of a Legendwrought weapons who ISN'T that powerful is very rapidly going to become the target of every being within several plane's distance who IS.


    Special Materials
    Most weapons are made from iron (or steel) and wood, however high-quality weapons can be made from other materials that have special properties. Weapons crafted from special materials are usually found at Superior quality or better; exceptions might exist though.

    Mithril
    Mithril is as strong as the finest steel, but lighter, allowing it be worked and shaped more easily. Weapons made of mithril are more accurate, gaining a bonus to attack rolls made with them. This bonus is equal to the combat-manuever bonus some weapons get (i.e. +3 at superior quality, +5 at Masterwork, etc.
    Mithril weapons weigh 25% less than an identical steel weapon would.

    Adamantine
    Adamantine is rare and particularly durable metal- weapons crafted from it can be honed to a sharper edge and a finer point, and deal extra damage on damage rolls. This bonus is +1 for light weapons, and +2 for one-handed weapon, +3 for two-handed weapons, or simply +25%, whichever is greater.
    Adamantine weapons weigh 25%more than an identical steel weapon would.

    Silvered, Cold-iron
    Weapons forged from an alloy of alchemical silver or made using special ore and techniques can overcome damage resistance from certain types of creatures such as outsiders, fey, or werewolves.

    Darkwood
    Also called "ironwood" in some areas, these special trees can be harvested and treated to make them as tough as stone. Darkwood weapons get the same bonus to hit as mithril weapons.

    Krystal
    Krystal weapons look like glass but are as strong as steel. Whatever technique or magic was used to craft seems lost to time, making them exceptionally rare. However this material is easier and cheaper to enchant than normal, making them highly valued for both combat as well as their unearthly appearance.
    Last edited by Deepbluediver; 2018-09-06 at 11:52 PM. Reason: tweaking mechanics, fixing grammar
    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    It's not called common because the sense is common, it's called common because it's about common things.
    Homebrew Extended Signature!