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Thread: The Rise of Ants 2: The Jungle!

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    Dwarf in the Playground

    Join Date
    Apr 2011

    Default Re: The Rise of Ants 2: The Jungle!

    @Sniccups- Allowing the betrayal was fine; your job is to provide the world and the written rules. Unwritten responsibilities are our job to police. If KingLinus wants to take the action back, then do what you think is best, but otherwise, everyone just needs to accept the consequences of actions taken.

    Spoiler: King Linus and Philosophy

    Quote Originally Posted by kinglinus1
    See that's just the thing: I've never actually thought about the exact nature of between player freedom and collaborative gaming, and I never fully thought of the perspective that they can hurt each other.
    Well, it falls under the same wing as the general social contract- humans must give up a portion of their autonomy to uphold certain rules about interaction.

    For the sake of argument, let's imagine you're a diplomat or perhaps just a public figure known to represent your country, and you decide to break all societal taboos of the culture you're visiting that aren't enforced by law; sure, you may have acted within all rules that apply to you, but you will have made life much harder for future interactions with that culture.

    The same expectations that grant you the power to influence also embue you with a commensurate responsibility to not take action that opposes the goals, designs, and will of those who gave you that power.

    Also @king: While I think we all agree that acting as a hive mind would make for a dull game, and nullify the purpose of heroes, the consequences of your actions nullify your stated goal of making the game more interesting. By taking the action you did, you removed our freedom as your fellow players, reducing our options for this interaction to "grovel for peace" or "go to war", which in either event will limit our long-term actions.

    Had you done this when we were in a better position- for example, when we had our super-troops within their hive, or were slightly superior to them militarily, that would have been interesting and opened up at least as many avenues as it closed in the short and probably long-term as well.

    Likewise, had you been more successful and taken out not only all their heroes but their queen, or destroyed/stolen some of their more powerful eggs into the bargain, we would be in an extreme position to negotiate from, or maybe had the capability to just march into their hive and possibly bend them to our will, if "mind" ends up being our next power trait.

    Instead, we are now permanently hampered in any future avenues of negotiation (the hive has proven itself untrustworthy) unless we destroy this enemy hive as soon as possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramsus View Post
    Though, not sure what there's to be in over your head about it. Pretty much anything has trade-offs and any game needs people to actually follow the agreed upon rules for it to function smoothly.
    To be fair to KingLinus, while the responsibilities of a player in a cooperative game are generally understood, these rules were not outright stated such that they might be clearly agreed upon. This doesn't absolve them of the consequences of their actions- the in-game responses of other players, say for example one's decision to repeatedly murder any future heroes of theirs, are perfectly justified under their own logic, if for no other reason than we haven't seen player/player conflict before and that would make things "interesting"- but it's not like people don't get tripped up on unspoken rules regularly.

    For the record- I'm not against war. Just against war now, when we're not in a position to truly take advantage of a surprise attack. In other words, I agree with Morgaln, and, given that Linus was happy to be in communication with at least one other player about this, am surprised at the timing and the fact that it's not a part of a coordinated effort.
    Last edited by Eternis; 2019-07-02 at 04:32 AM.