View Single Post

Thread: Flaw in Hel's Plan

  1. - Top - End - #17
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Ipswich, MA, USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Flaw in Hel's Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by NerdyKris View Post
    It's also highly unlikely that Rich is going to consider suicide an honorable death, given what he's said every time this subject is brought up.

    It's probably not going to matter anyways, since destroying the world would effectively end the Order of the Stick as the main characters in the story.
    The comic seems to suggest that any death in combat is honorable, even one that is tantamount to suicide, like Eugene's suggestion that dwarves all go charge at some ancient red dragon, or something (I don't remember the exact wording).

    Rich is definitely making an effort to avoid presenting suicide as a solution to any problems (even if I personally think he's not doing an ideal job in terms of symbolism - V committing suicide to save hir spouse was raised as a potential "solution," albeit by an imp, and Durkon frees his soul by baring his chest for Belkar to stab him). But I think he's doing this by steering the plot away from suicide actually resolving problems, not by further complicating the rules of the Bet to define deaths from combat, self-sacrifice, etc. that could be deemed "suicidal" as dishonorable.

    Quote Originally Posted by brian 333 View Post
    I raised this point when we first learned of the 'destroy the world' plot. I don't believe, even if the dwarves never learned why they died, that their deaths would be dishonorable. In fact, to die for the survival of others is the ultimate honor.

    The forum quickly shouted me down, of course. The best evidence I have heard is that Hel believes her plan will work. A supergenius deity who is intimately familiar with how her world works is in a better position than I to judge.

    But I still agree that the dwarves risking their afterlife for others is honorable whether they choose or whether it is forced on them.
    It's important to remember that this bet is not operating under a sane, objective definition of "honor" - it's operating under a weird one defined by at least some of the gods who made the bet. You don't need to agree with the Bet's definition of "honor" - it seems that dying from a drunken brawl would count as an honorable death, while succumbing to cancer after years of fighting to survive would be "dishonorable." Few, if any, of us would agree with this definition of honor, but it's the one in operation in this world, and we don't have to agree with it in order to acknowledge that is exists.

    You're welcome to consider it honorable to risk your afterlife for others - I certainly do - but unfortunately our opinion doesn't seem to have much to do with how the rules are being applied.