Quote Originally Posted by Ninja Dragon View Post
So I've been thinking about Thor/Durkon's plan make a truce with Redcloak so they can repair the rifts and keep the Snarl from destroying the world. It's a hard plan, because it requires Redcloak to abandon his Sunk Cost Fallacy, but theory Durkon could offer peace and teritory to the goblinkind and get Redcloak to cooperate in exchange for it, assuming they have turned Xykon into an immobile pile of bones by then.

But I have a problem with this plan: what is stopping Redcloak from having his cake and eating it?

Let's say Durkon just told Redcloak about the plan (RC accepted to listen to him because he's smart enough not to refuse tactical intel). Redcloak can then just shrug, do the ritual to teleport the Snarl, enslave the gods, and then get them to repair the rifts along with him. Now the threat of the Snarl is contained and the Dark One rules everything forever. And the gods can't even destroy the world if they see RC is about to do that, because they have an agreement not to do it unless the Godsmoot decides for it (and the Godsmoot is currently on indefinite hold).

The only way I could see RC accepting Durkon's proposal is if he's already defeated, about to die, and The OOTS offers it as an alternative to dieing and never seeing The Plan come into fruition. But that's way less exciting than the epic diplomacy feat I wanna see Dukon pull off.

Any ideas?
There is some misunderstanding of the mechanics involved here.

1.) If the Dark One succeeds at the ritual, he gains the ability to move the Gate. If he does this and moves the Gate to, say, Valhalla, then the Snarl pops out of the Gate and kills the gods on Valhalla. Then it destroys all of Valhalla until it's a big empty void-plane. And then...nothing. That's it. The Dark One does not have a way to put the Snarl back into the prison after he's unleashed it. The Snarl just lives on Valhalla now, or what's left of it.

2.) The Gate connects the prison to another plane. When the Dark One moves it, it now connects the prison to a different plane. So after the Snarl is unleashed on Plane 1, then the Dark One moves the Gate to Plane 2, it now connects the prison to Plane 2—it does not connect Planes 1 and 2.

3.) But that doesn't really matter because once the Snarl is free on any plane other than its prison, then literally any planar gateway could potentially allow it to change planes. The Dark One would cease to have any control over its location, and in fact it would be far more likely that some of the evil gods would start spamming big flashy portals to the Dark One's domain until the Snarl took the bait and went through.

4.) Alternately, once any Northern god dies, the deadlock at the Godsmoot is broken and the vote resolves (votes from dead gods don't count). Even if the world was "saved" they would be free to immediately take a second vote to destroy the world—or even just to kill all goblins—depriving the Dark One of his followers and ultimately killing him over the long term.

The Snarl is like a nuclear bomb. You can get a lot of leverage out of owning a nuclear bomb, because no one wants it dropped on them. But if everyone knows you only own one and then you use it on someone...then everyone left knows you don't have it anymore. Sucks for your one target, but it won't end well for you, either.

That's why the Dark One's actual plan is to use the threat of moving the Gate to extract concessions from the other gods and deter preemptive strikes against his followers. Those concessions will be significantly less than, "All of you be my slaves forever," because at that point, the calculus would change and some of the gods might risk the bomb getting dropped on one of them to end the Dark One's threat to their friends and family.

Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
You're making the implicit assumption that anyone will tell Redcloak the plan and he has to agree with it. Given we've already been told that all the gods need is the power from one ninth level spell, all that needs to happen is for Redcloak to cast Implosion on one of the good guys and job's done.
No, not at all. It's contributing a 9th-level spell slot willingly to a specific ritual that Thor will explain to Durkon later, not just casting any 9th-level spell at any target. Thor would have just said, "Trick him into casting a spell on you," if that was good enough.