Quote Originally Posted by -D- View Post
How do you mean not meant for limited? Every card is meant for limited. Each card will participate in limited, with a small side note for mythics. Those can be arbitrarily powerful since they have little chance of being pulled at limited.
Stony Silence isn't meant for limited. Yes you can pull it in packs, but it's not a card that is expected to see play in limited, it exists for constructed.

You claimed that since it's used in few decks in older Eternal format means, it's powerful. I'm just noting that by that logic, Lantern is some kind of OP card, since it sees play many times more.
When did I claim it was powerful? Show me the exact quote where I claimed it was powerful.
I said it was useful, and it sees play because of this.
I never said Fiendslayer Paladin was a very powerful card, I said its hexproof ability wasn't useless 99% of the time, which is what you claimed. You keep ignoring this.


Yes. We were discussing which of Resistance from X parts was weakest. Those parts where
A) Hexproof from X
B) Can't be blocked by X (evasion)
C) Damage immunity from X

To me, the Hexproof from X is definitely not as strong as Damage from X. I might have misvalued Evasion. You noted Hexproof was a powerful evergreen, I noted damage immunity was way more powerful since it is too strong to print.
This is a completely irrelevant point. At no point did I claim hexproof was more powerful than prevent damage to, I said hexproof was better than:
"Hexproof prevents a tiny percent of cards, compared to cards it doesn't deal with. "

You consistently try to argue against points I never made to begin with.

You're forgetting I already talked about this - Reactive protection/hexproof is >>> than passive protection/hexproof.
To that I made this comment which you've ignored:
Good reactive hexproof cards:
Heroic Intervention, Dive Down, Blossoming Defense, Vines of Vastwood, Lazotep Plating, Rattlechains

Good proactive hexproof cards:
Drogskol Captain, Fleecemane Lion, Geist of Saint Traft, Gladecover Scout, Gruul Spellbreaker, Invisible Stalker, Sigarda, Host of Herons, Silhana Ledgewalker, Slippery Bogle, Thrun, the Last Troll, Sylvan Caryatid, Vine Mare

Plague engineer is played in a different way. You'll never going to play it in a way that's useless. So while there are 100 different types, you'll always target something.
But you're not gonna want Plague Engineer in the matchups where it turns 1 of the opponent's 5/5s into a 4/4. Plague engineer is good in the matchups where it comes down and kills 2+ creatures immediately.

A permanent with Hexproof from X, at the moment, can't choose their color, if they did my evaluation would differ.
That's why they're played as hate cards in the matchups where the hexproof is relevant.
Protection also only matters some of the time, doesn't make it useless.

Look, Vigilance is an awesome evergreen, since it's on Questing Beast and Zetalpa, and those are powerful bombs.

Yeah, no, that's not how you compare their power and usage.
This is not a fair comparison at all.
Questing Beast loosing vigilance would not make the card that much worse, while Geist of Saint Traft would go from a very powerful card to being unplayable if you removed hexproof.

To compare Hexproof for its value, you need to isolate it and look at creatures that have just Hexproof and how it impacts their CMC.
A lot more than most other keywords do. Cards with hexproof will be up to a whole mana more expensive than their non hexproof counterpart.
Aven Fleetwing - Wind Drake
Flying, Haste and Hexproof are generally the stronger evergreen keywords.
Indestructible and Double Strike are in a league of their own, nut they don't really show up at common.

How do you deal with a plain creature with Hexproof in a low power setting aka Standard/Limited? You ignore it or AoE it. How do you win with it? You give it some evasion and/or pump it.
Arboretum Elemental
Benthic Giant
Cold-Water Snapper
Dungrove Elder
Horror of the Dim
Lumberknot
Plated Slagwurm
Primal Huntbeast
Rubbleback Rhino
Sacred Wolf
Scaled Behemoth
Striped Riverwinder
Vine Mare

Most of the time these might as well have shroud. Pump/evasion isn't necessary.

Now water this down, since we are discussing Hexproof from X. Then, you just find the colors the creature isn't hexproofed from. E.g. against Fiendslayer, you play a white removal, like Path To Exile.
Which is why you play it in matchups where they're unlikely to have those answers. Is the concept of a sideboard card unfamiliar to you?
If you play Fiendslayer Paladin against a Boros burn deck in modern they can board in two Path to Exiles in to deal with it, and have to hope to draw it. Those are pretty good odds for the Fiendslayer Paladin
Against legacy burn which is mono red their best answer to fiendslayer is 1-2 Sulfuric Vortex in 75.

How is the argument of something seeing play, an argument of it being useful?
What? Why would something see play if it wasn't useful? The reason something sees play is specifically because it is useful in a situation.

Any card can be useful given right support cards and metagame.
And Fiendslayer Paladin has that, and therefore it is useful, and therefore its "hexproof" ability is useful and therefore you are wrong in saying hexproof from doesn't matter 99% of the time.