Quote Originally Posted by Loek View Post
Let's work our way backwards, shall we?
By all means. Thanks for the review; I knew this needed a lot of polish, but wanted some feedback to work from.

Quote Originally Posted by Loek View Post
Starting at the level 18 ability. Which basically means the following:
  • Self spells can now be cast on other creatures (though they'll take damage when you do it like this, I assume)
  • Arcane ammunition can now be used with longer casting time spells
  • You can no use it with spells targeting multiple creatures (though the question arises as to how) and other targeting spells, like those affecting objects etc.

Conclusion: decently powerful, but not properly defined. Might need some work, but at level 18, I'm not going to worry too much
The intent is more that it allow you to essentially make spell-storing arrows. The casting time is supposed to be unchanged from casting it normally, but you store the spell in the arrow, and now anybody who fires it can make the spell go off where the arrow hits. Good catch on how multi-target spells interact with this; could be done with multiple pieces of ammo again, perhaps, splitting the spell up between them.

Quote Originally Posted by Loek View Post
Then the level 14, extra attack.
Interesting to grant it this late, but I don't mind. What I do worry about though, is it's interaction with the level 1 ability. We'll worry about that later though.
It is late for two reasons. The lesser of the two is that this means multiclassing with a fighter-type puts you only 3 levels ahead for getting your extra attack AND your trick shots. It's not perfect, there, though. The greater reason is exactly the one you're looking at: this is intended to stack with the faster-cast to enable two spells per round.

On a straight sorcerer, this is very powerful, but I don't think overpowered at level 14 if the rest of the chassis isn't doing too much. I fear this might be, still, so it does need work. But this subclass is leaning heavily into the concept of the Sorcerer being the master of finding new and creative uses for his spells.

Quote Originally Posted by Loek View Post
Next up, Level 6:
Interesting take (note that I haven't looked at it in too much detail). But a few things to look at:
  • Treating them as metamagic: a power gamer might be willing to trade em all away to get more normal meta magics (or the other way around, based on perceived strength/goals)
  • Waypoint marker: Please add some maximums on the "everything you are carrying" like most teleport spells do (do people count, how much weight, etc)
They could, yes. They'd have to have the optional feature that lets them trade such things out. I will point out that a level 6+ Sorcerer who uses this to get 2 extra metamagics is probably not that far ahead of other Sorcerer subclasses, since he's neglecting his archery features to get it.

I will look again at level 6 Sorcerer features, but if you had an optional alternate feature that said any Sorcerer could trade their level six subclass feature for +2 metamagics, do you think that would be overpowered?

This is easy to fix, if so; I can just remove the "swap out for metamagic" clause. My intent is to let them mix and match metamagic and these, and that if they buy these at higher level and have buyer's remorse, they aren't more "stuck" than if they'd taken metamagic they regretted.

Quote Originally Posted by Loek View Post
And finally, we get to the main feature, level 1:
Yeah, this one's a doozy.
Quote Originally Posted by Loek View Post
  • Firstly: Please clear up the wording on Arcane ammunition, especially that first sentence (please split it into multiple statements). But also, does this allow for a spellcast with each attack made (as it currently seems to allow)? As that would make it extremely dip worth and insanely overpowered when combined with say... an Eldritch Knight.
Yes, it is intended to allow a spell with every attack made. I am quite concerned about the dippability of it. That's actually the purpose of (re-ordering here for discussion purposes):
Quote Originally Posted by Loek View Post
  • Lastly: "...cast a spell of a level no greater than your level in this class..." this one is utterly useless, except when used as a dip. As a level 9 arcane archers will be able to use level 9 spells with this feature... while only having up to level 5 spells available. Suggestion: set this to 1/3rd or 1/4th your level in arcane archer instead.
This one is meant to be invisible to single-class sorcerers. Its purpose is strictly to limit dipping. My thought process here is that if you're a level 9 sorcerer/level 11 other-caster, you can have the full arcane archery benefits for all your spells. Though, thinking about it, I need to reconsider how and whether this limit interacts with upcast spells. If it doesn't care what slot you use, but only what spell level the original spell is, then Sorcerer 7/(Bard/Cleric/Druid/Wizard) 13 would still let you use this on all your spells.

I thought about limiting it to half your sorcerer level - this would still be invisible to single-class sorcerers, but would mean that more than two levels of another caster class would see your 9th level spell slot never benefit from this feature.

Quote Originally Posted by Loek View Post
  • Secondly: "Spells which enable multiple attacks (such as magic missile or scorching ray) may be cast in this fashion, but consume a separate piece of ammunition each." ==> Does this mean that a level 1 Magic missile allows me to fire 3 arrows as part of my single attack action? And do they all deal damage? - if so, again extremely over powered
That is what it means. Having it permit multiple arrow shots that all do damage is an unintended consequence I can't believe I didn't catch, myself, so thank you for pointing that out. How this interacts with multi-target spells (scorching ray and magic missile are the two that expressly come to mind, but an upcast charm person qualifies as well) has been difficult to nail down, in terms of how I want it to work as much as anything else.

I will point out that even with it enabling 3 shots with magic missile, it's still costing a level 1 spell slot. That's still a damage boost of an extra d8+cha piercing damage to each magic missile in exchange for having to make attack rolls, which is probably too much.

This also really gets too strong with eldritch blast, if you pick it up by one of any of the methods available to do so. So yeah, this doesn't work as intended as written.

Quote Originally Posted by Loek View Post
  • Thirdly: Allowing you to pick the target for the area of effect... while nice and cool, also seems rather powerful on top of the attack. I'd limit it to within X feet of your arrow target. Otherwise you can snipe that nasty wizard in the back, while fireballing the horde of minions in the front.
This one, I think you're misreading. Or I wrote wrong. Either way, I need to clarify its language.

What's intended to be going on here is that, if you use this with an AoE spell, wherever the arrow "stops" is the point of origin. If you shoot a creature with a burning hands arrow, you could aim the cone through him to his buddies, or you could (if you wanted to) aim the cone out away from him (at other enemies). Though I should probably remove this language, because while the visual is cool, the fact that you can stop the arrow anywhere in flight to position the origin for the AoE means that you don't need to shoot somebody you don't want to include in it.

To reiterate, the intended use here is to allow you to place the AoE's origin point anywhere within the ranged weapon's range, with a small caveat that the DM might call for an attack roll to see if it actually goes where you wanted it to (and leave it up to him to decide where it goes if you miss...hopefully DMs will use this for reasonable misfires and not try to be "clever" while being adversarial).

What it does NOT do that I think you're asking about is allow you to shoot Bob with an arrow, then put a fireball centered 60 feet away from him. If you shoot Bob with a fireball arrow, Bob is at the origin point for the fireball's AoE.

Quote Originally Posted by Loek View Post
  • Fourthly: At first level you basically get a spell + an attack for your action. And you can do that each turn until you run out of spells (though we have cantrips for that). While cool, this is probably too powerful. Limit it to x times per short/long rest? And I do mean LIMIT
This is the one I have the most problem with. Limiting it to X uses robs it of ... everything, really. This is one of the key problems with the 5e Arcane Archer as-is: the sharp limit on how often your archery can be arcane makes it feel like you're never going to use the feature. I thought of tying it to expenditure of SP, but that means a level 1 feature doesn't actually do anything until level 2, and since I'm already charging SP for trick shots and they'll still probably want to use metamagic, that overstrains the resource. Making it X times per short rest either won't really be a limit, or will make it a "don't bother" feature because there's always a risk of a bigger spider around the next corner.

This is designed to be a fairly "high offense" subclass, rather than a BFC/buff subclass, though it can do some BFC. But buffing your allies also hurts them, done via this method, unless you pick up Subtle Hit at level 6 and spend the SP to make it do no damage.

Quote Originally Posted by Loek View Post
[list] Fifthly: Using charisma on the attack seems nice and SAD (single attribute dependent) but as mentioned above, this whole thing is already rather powerful, so adding a little MAD (though a standard sorcerer will already have CHA, CON and DEX) isn't such a bad thing.
True, but on the other hand, I really, REALLY don't want to make a hexblade dip that tempting. If a subclass becomes "more streamlined" by dipping outside the class, something is very wrong.

Quote Originally Posted by Loek View Post
So in conclusion:
  • Level 18 is wonky, but not extremely so
  • Level 14 is cool, as long as it doesn't allow for a free second spell per turn
  • Level 6 seems good, as long as no metamagic-trade shenanigans are pulled
  • Level 1 feels like a good idea, but has MANY issues as currently written
Agreed, and thanks!

I actually do want the level 14 feature to permit a second spell per turn. This is very powerful, but I don't think overly so for a subclass's level 14 feature, when the caster's other features bend towards it. What does concern me is Eldritch Knights dipping Sorcerer for this subclass, and even other level-5-extra-attack classes dipping for cantrips to every attack (which is not limited at all as I have it written, which is a bug). A Gloomstalker dip may also seem more attractive than I'd like.


Maybe make the level 1 feature be, "When you cast a spell, you may also make an attack with a ranged weapon that uses ammunition, and channel the spell through the ammo." (Insert whatever final rules for running that.)

Then, make the level 14 feature be both Extra Attack and "When you make an attack with a ranged weapon that uses ammunition, you may cast a spell with a casting time of no more than one action, channeling it as per [the level 1 feature]."

This still doesn't address multi-target spells, but we might be getting closer.