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    Troll in the Playground
    Telok's Avatar

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    Mar 2005
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    Default Re: [Let's Read] Dungeons the Dragoning 40,000 7th ed. v1.6

    Ok, fixed a last couple bits in book 1, comments and pdf metadata mostly. Fixed a couple more minor things in book 2, formatting, spelling, a math error, and comments.

    I'm just about to start putting links in book 2. One more attachment to do, the big list of optional rules and gray areas in tge rules that the DM needs to consider. Here's the current text in case anyone wants to try and spot something
    This document lists a bunch of decision points that the SM may want to decide on before starting the game. Players may also want to review it for possible questions that apply to their characters, in order to clear up any potential misunderstandings before beginning to play.

    BOOK 1
    p10 Starting ability scores: Should dots be allocated in three columns, or can you use both columns and rows? (Both allows for more min/max-ing.)
    p12 Starting Backgrounds: Inheritance, Wealth, and Artifacts are capped at 5 during character creation. What about other backgrounds? (The SM may have to decide what Contacts 10 looks like.)
    p13 Starting Experience Point buy: What is the order of operations for spending the XP? You can use Daemonhost and Atlantean to get an attribute or skill to 6 using the Veteran O' the Wheel asset after spending some XP.
    p14 Hit Points & Resilience: Do you want to use the standard model or a simplified one where everything is assumed to have a 5 Resilience and you multiply HP by 5? (This works by taking Old HP x5 = New HP then adding Level x Size to New HP. Every time the character goes up a Level they add their Size to the New HP again. Power armors have +5 AP, the machinator array adds +5 New HP, things that do automatic wounds do 5 damage per wound, and things that treat targets like they had less Resilience add +5 damage per level of reduction.)
    p21 Skills: Which skills & rolls are advanced, and which shouldn't be penalized for not having any dots? (Untrained basic skills are rolled at attribute - 1, meaning untrained perception for a Wisdom 2 character is 1k1.)
    p22 Acrobatics skill: As an advanced skill should this prohibit dodging by untrained characters? (We consider dodges to be a Dexterity save that adds Acrobatics as rolled dice.)
    p22 Arcana skill: This is used in magic saves, yet it is an advanced skill. Should characters without a dot in arcana be unable to make saves vs. magic? (We don't think so.)
    p23 Common Lore skill: Should this be a basic skill?
    p24 Medicae skill: Basic first aid and stopping bleeding are basic applications, but as an advanced skill only trained people can attempt them. Should there be basic applications? (We think that stopping bleeding should be a basic skill type of application of Medicae.)
    p25 Perception skill: By the rules untrained people have a -1 die penalty to perception checks.
    p30 Warp Miasma Dark Eldarin species power: What is the range & targeting form of this power?
    p32 Dragon breath Dragonborn species power: As with Flamers should this use Ballistics or Dexterity for determining the save TN?
    p54 Exaltation Resource Points: Should using a RP default to a half action or a free action? Some abilities are useless if they take a half action.
    p54 Exaltation tells: You should decide how much emphasis to put on the tells.
    p65 Daemonhost exaltation Feeding ability: Followers & healing magic may make the SM feel that it is too easy to stay topped up on Resource Points.
    p65 Daemonhost exaltation Black Miracle ability: The details of the ritual are completely undefined. Possibly see the daemon summoning appendix for ideas?
    p72 Promethian exaltation Living Construct ability: Does Fatigue equal Resource Point usage? Yyes in some feats, but you may want to decide in general?
    p72 Promethian exaltation Unquiet ability: Should it apply to everything? Tech-priests, heavy cybernetic augmentation npcs, and the intimidation skill?
    p73 Promethian exaltation Superlative Construction ability: You have to decide on how to handle crit counting and things like its interaction with the True Grit feat.
    p73 Promethian exaltation Generation attribute: The SM has to decide how much 'go home to upgrade' is required, or is it optional?
    p77 Vampire exaltation Dread power: Should it upgrade or scale with Potency?
    p77 Vampire exaltation Domination power: Is it a spell or like-a-spell? This matters for Perils of the Warp checks.
    p80 Werewolf exaltation War-Form ability: How do you want to deal with the bonus Hit Points form the increased Constitution? Do you want werewolves to take extra damage when their constitution returns to normal?
    p80 Werewolf exaltation Fast Healing ability: How do you want to do silver/magic damage tracking and criticals?
    p120 Exalted assets: Can they be acquired after character creation? with a quest? On a Power stat increase?
    p122 Divine Ministration feat: Do you want to restrict this to once a day if there are multiple human paragon exalts in the party?
    p124 Frenzy feat Constitution hit point modification: Should the character take additional damage when the bonus constitution wears off or not?
    p126 Jaded feat: What counts as supernatural fear effects?
    p131 Tau Farsighted asset: Do you want to add a bonus in games without much social combat?
    p131 Human Perseverance asset: Attacks, parries and dodges are not normally considered opposed rolls but the SM could change that.
    p131 Ork I'm Da Boss asset: Is this bonus added to the total (+5), or added as rolled dice (+5k0)?
    p134 Magic Resistance asset: Does the SM want to allow this to be taken more than once?
    p134 Spirit Mentor asset: How powerful should the mentor be, how often should they be available, and who should decide that?
    p136 Chosen asset Mark of Cuthbert: What things are crimes and does jurisdiction or knowledge of criminal acts matter?
    p137 Chosen asset Mark of Nurgle: This has no effect at Faith 1, when it is most likely to be taken. Should the SM allow to apply at the start?
    p139 Paragon assets: Can these be taken after character creation or not?
    p148 Magic fluff: Navigators, astropaths, apostates, & untouchables. The SM has to decide if the fluff matters and should and how it be implemented.
    p149 Focus Power tests: Should natural abilities that don't trigger Perils of the Warp be able to be fettered or pushed?
    p150 Focus Power tests: How much should be added to the Perils of the Warp rolls per level/die based on which tables you're using? (The automatic warp effects roller is intended to be used as follows: tested keeping exploded dice = +5 per kept exploded die after the first, apostate keeping exploded dice = +10 per any exploded die, tested pushing = +5 per additional die and +5 per kept exploded die, apostate pushing = +10 per additional die and +10 per any exploded die. Fettering is always completely safe.)
    p150 Focus Power tests: What order of operations do you want when there are multiple effects that modify the number of dice being rolled? (We suggest adding any dice for Pushing be done first, the halving of dice for Fettering be done last, any anything else in any order. E.g. 7k4 +3k0 for Atlantean -2k0 for Spell Might = 8k4 then fettered to 4k4.)
    p150 Magic spells & line of sight: Is line of sight going to be different than line of effect? Can you cast through a window or into darkness? (For Magic Missile and Charm Person you should probably have both sight and a clear path. But for Fog Cloud or Energy Ray you should probably be able to just unambiguously state the location of the effect as long as there is a clear path.)
    p151 Magic spells & ranged touch: Level+Ballistics or Ballistics+Dexterity or Level+Dexterity or Arcana+Dexterity? (We allow the caster to choose between Level+Ballistics and Level+Dexterity.)
    p154 Magic spells & touch: Level+Brawling or Level+Dexterity or Brawling+Dexterity? (We allow Level+Brawling or Level+Dexterity.)
    p154 Magic spells & opportunity attacks: Should reaction dodge & parry type spells provoke opportunity attacks?
    p156 Abjuration spell, Shield: Should reaction dodge & parry type spells provoke opportunity attacks?
    p156 Abjuration Spell, Dispel: What are the TNs for dispelling ongoing effects and other stuff?
    p158 Conjuration spell, Call Item: Just how big a thing can you summon?
    p158 Conjuration spell, Lesser Servant: The form and limitations of the summons needs to be decided.
    p159 Conjuration spell, Greater Servant: The form and limitations of the summons needs to be decided.
    p160 Divination spell, Foresee: Should reaction dodge & parry type spells provoke opportunity attacks?
    p161 Divination spell, Mind Net: This is maybe a bit weak for 4th level spell, but should you use the optional suggestions to power it up?
    p170 Necromancy spell, Draining Touch: Should it not provoke opportunity attacks? Last until the end of your next turn or attack? Or do you have to suck up an opportunity attack to use it?
    p171 Necromancy spell, Zombie Plague: How does this interact with advanced undead creation? At what point do you form minion squads? How good is the casters control?
    p173 Transmutation spell, Transformation: Should you allow alternate forms? One per dot on Transmutation or one per level?
    p173 Transmutation spell, Dragon Form: Does the SM require casters to prepare their transformed stats ahead of time? Is dragon sized equipment available?
    p177 Sword Schools & free style points: Can you stockpile the free style points or do you have to spend them immediately?
    p178 Desert Wind, Leaping Flame: Can you split up the distance into before & after chunks? Do you have to go the whole distance? Do you have to know where you're going?
    p179 Devoted Spirit, Revitalizing Strike: If you create an Aid Another healing strike can it heal you if you're adjacent to the attacker who uses the strike?
    p182 Setting Sun & unarmed attacks: Do natural weapons count as unarmed attacks? What about brawling weapons? Can you do Knockout Blow with a Power Fist?
    p183 Shadow Hand & ready actions: Can you 're-ready' an already drawn weapon?
    p183 Shadow Hand, Mosquito Bite: What happens when you use this with a chain axe?
    p184 Stone Dragon, Weight of the Mountain: Can fatigue immune people use this restriction? Should it cost them a resource point?
    p184 Stone Dragon, Felling Giants Blow: If your games uses a no-Resilience optional rule how does this work?
    p185 Tiger Claw, Brutal Reserve: What should this do when you can already take reactions after an all-out attack? Should it just negate any penalties if you can already use reactions?
    p185 Tiger Claw, Evisceration: If your games uses a no-Resilience optional rule how does this work?
    p187 Backgrounds, Allies: Do they gain XP? How many are allowed at character creation? Who builds and runs them?
    p188 Backgrounds, Backing: The SM should decide on amount of responsibility and power. Can this compete with or replace wealth?
    p189 Backgrounds, Inheritance: Does this stuff have plot protection like artifacts?
    p189 Backgrounds, Holdings: You have to decide what is appropriate for your game.
    p190 Backgrounds, Mentor: You need to decide on how to use it, and who sets up or build the mentor.
    p191 Devotion: What role does alignment play in your game?
    p192 Raising Devotion: This may cost too much for non-chosen and non-priest characters to bother with raising it.
    p193 Degenerations, witch-mark: Does the tiefling werewolf with mutations really care? Should the be a "baby's-first-degeneration"?
    p193 Degenerations, ashen taste: What about food and fatigue immune exalts?
    p193 Degenerations, blackouts: How often? How long? What triggers them?
    p193 Degenerations, blighted mind: What exactly are derangements? What do they do? Should you use Appendix C (p.367)?
    p203 Equipment, defensive weapon attribute: Are shields armor or weapons?
    p203 Equipment, flame weapon attribute: What TN determination do you want to use, Dexterity or Ballistics or let the player choose?
    p215 Equipment, armor Static Defense penalty: Do you want to use simplified armor penalties (Heavy = 3, Extreme = 4, Power = 7)?
    p219 Equipment, bionic locomotion: Do you get one leg or two? (One leg gets really awkward when you have two different ones.)
    p225 Artifact weapons and armors: Which armors are "metal" for these purposes? Are shields armor or weapons?
    p235 Rolling more than 10 dice: Should you require conversion or not? (By default every 2 rolled dice over 10 become an additional kept die, and every additional kept die over 10 becomes +5. Statistically speaking, converting or not doesn't make a big difference in the result totals.)
    p236 Characteristic tests: Is dodge a Dexterity characteristic test that adds Acrobatics, or a skill test you can't make without Acrobatics?
    p237 Stunts: Should you allow hit location rolls before starting the descriptions? Perhaps allow free called shots in 2 & 3 die stunts?
    p241 Surprise: How to deal with characters that can't be surprised when they are 'acting' before things that would trigger a combat? (Our best results came from describing the scene and telling the player that the character's Danger Sense activated and asking them what they want to do. Perhaps allow a quick Perception or Scrutiny test. Then check for who goes first.)
    p245 Combat Actions, Delay: Is this a Half Action being saved for later, or a Half Action to save your other Half Action for later?
    p245 Combat Actions, Disarm: What about Brawling disarms? Allow, disallow, only on a stunt?
    p245 Combat Actions, Feint: What about brawling feints? (We thing they work just fine.)
    p245 Combat Actions, Fight Defensively: Is this Weaponry only or also Brawling and Ballistics? (We found its OK to apply to all.)
    p253 Combat Situations, Cover: How do you want to deal with massive over penetration or area effects? Should cover degrade faster with bigger boom-boom?
    p254 Combat Situations, Weapon Jams: When to jam a weapon? When they roll more 1s than Ballistics skill? More 1s than their Level? When they're forced to keep 1s? When do full auto burst attacks jam? On the first round, last round, or in between?
    p255 Hit Points: Do you want to use Resilience or do a 'all HP x5' sort of thing and drop Resilience?
    p256 Critical Damage: Do you want to use an alternate to the charts? What are the interactions with variants on not using Resilience?
    p261 Amputation: The chance for an amputation to cause disease is in the rules, but exalts are immune to "most mortal diseases". Do you want to use this?
    p267 Social Combat: The default loss of Resolve is a maximum of 2 Resolve per scene (before stunts). You may consider making it equal to the Fellowship of attacker.
    p270 Mental Trauma: When should you roll this?
    p334 XP: You may want to reconsider devotion costs if they seem too high.
    p337 Enemies, phasing ability: This is not a great implementation of 'immaterial' critters like ghosts. You may also want to consider what is a "magic weapon" and which magic/spells works on them?
    p337 Enemies, undead ability: This is possibly an imperfect implementation of being "undead", consider tweaking it for specific undead creatures?
    p343 Enemies, Dark Mechanus: This is a weird and slightly over-leveled faux-Promethian enemy. Consider changing or giving it the full Promethian exaltation powers?
    p348 Enemies, Mind Flayers: Is their casting innate and not able to be pushed or cause Perils of the Warp? Or same magic as everyone, or just some of it?
    p349 Enemies, Aboleths: Is their casting innate and not able to be pushed or cause Perils of the Warp? Or same magic as everyone, or just some of it?
    p350 Enemies, Ghosts: These are not a great opponent, do they need to be upgraded? Is their casting innate and not able to be pushed or cause Perils of the Warp? Or same magic as everyone, or just some of it?
    p359 Enemies, minions: They're missing social defense, what if they're armor, initiative, and how do some weapons work? (We run their mental defense as the same as their Static Defense. If they wear heavy or better armor that AP replaces the +5 raise number (e.g.: minions in AP 8 armor take -4 defense and each raise on the to-hit roll is 8 instead of 5). Their initiative bonus is equal to their threat rating. And we just don't let them use flamers and grenades, they just explode the minions.)
    p362 Stealth: Should stealth tests be opposed by perception or used more like parry & dodge where they add (half?) to a general perception TN?
    p368 Mental Disorders: These are strong a potentially quite debilitating. The SM should decide on what triggers them and how often they come up.
    p382 Astropaths & navigators: You need to decide on how you want the setting to work. Like 'Dune'? BattleTech ComStar? WH40k? Star Wars HoloNet?
    p384 Character Wealth: Do you want to use alternate looting & money rules or not?
    p388 Character Contacts & Allies: How much work and detail do you need? How much say does the player have?

    book 2
    p6 Species, Thri-Kreen: Is the "don't sleep" thing fluff or rules? Is there any interaction with Night Terrors hindrance?
    p8 Species, Kenku: What is the interaction between wing aided movement and immobilize & snare effects?
    p12 Species, Dryad racial power: Do you want to choose one or allow the player to choose? Should it apply to all dryads or be an individual thing?
    p16 Wraith exaltation Ghost Dice ability: Which version do you want to use?
    p16 Wraith exaltation Dematerialize ability: How do you want to do the phasing trait? (Book 1, p337)
    p17 Wraith exaltation Poltergeist power: There are no attacks, but what about shoving and grabbing?
    p17 Wraith exaltation Shroud power: Is this equal to maximum or current Resolve?
    p19 Dragon-blooded exaltation dragon Heart power: Is the flame TN based on Dexterity or Ballistics?
    p59 Elemental Shot feats: Does the GunMage class extra shots per day feature apply to one feat or all of the feats? Another way to phrase this is are the extra uses tied to a particular feat, or are they a "pool" of uses?
    p61 Lead Fingers feat: The SM should decide how much this feat is likely to damage the equipment.
    p63 Pinball Wizard feat: The SM should decide how much this feat is likely to damage the equipment and what the limits are.
    p65 Unarmed Master & other unarmed combat feats: Should the unarmed feats stack with the Weapon Focus and Weapons Specialization feats? (We found its OK if they do, brawling damage tends to be a little low.)
    p65 Wholeness of Body feat: Does the AP count as armor for things like the paladin classes +1 AP feature? (We can't find any problems with that.)
    p65 Wildshape feat: Are bionics melded and useless equipment, or do they carry over like werewolves bionics do? (We like them to carry over. Its simpler.)
    p68 Dryad Matron asset: How does this work if the SM chooses the alternate racial power for dryads?
    p70 Dragon-blooded exaltation Blood of Io asset: The SM needs to determine what sort of wealth test it is and how many "handful"s they can regularly carry around.
    p70 Dragon-blooded exaltation Blood of Tiamat asset: Should it also swap the attribute bonus around? (We said no, just because all the rewriting stats on character sheets tended to introduce errors.)
    p74 Abjuration spell, Ruby Ray: Does the self only version work on area spells? Are they whole or partially reflected?
    p77 Enchantment spell, Enchant an Item: Should the duration of the enchantment be extended to match traditional narratives?
    p78 Evocation spell, Battering Ram: Can you push them up or down?
    p81 Necromancy spell, Avasculate: Does a Promethian's Pyros reactor count as a heart? Do modrons have hearts?
    p81 Necromancy spell, Create Greater Undead: How do head shots affect the focus gemstone? How expensive is the stone? (Blizzard stone, obsidian, & onyx are black semi-precious stones where human brain sized rough stones ran about $50 to $100 USD when we checked.)
    p86 Crisis Zone, Razing Storm: How does the trick shot ability interact with the Storm property (Book 2, p.164)?
    p88 Point Blank: Does the SM want to let Guardsman class track classes take Point Blank with or instead of Iron Heart? (We have no problems with this.)
    p88 Point Blank, Bullet Dance Technique: When should the movement occur? Immediately or on the target's turn? Who chooses the direction?
    p93 Vehicle rules, Punch It: Can this stand in for a Maintain Control action or is it a separate action? (We find it works better as a separate action.)
    p98 Vehicle building, Drive Trains: Do you want to allow vehicles without drives? (Its fine by us.)
    p100 Vehicle building, Berserker control system: Do you want to use the optional rule about perception filters? How does it tell friend from foe?
    p100 Vehicle building, Basic Equipment: Should this be included with or separate from the rest of the controls for microinzing and macronizing?
    p100 Vehicle building, Copilot seat: How locked in are which things a copilot can control? Can they hot swap or is it fixed at design time?
    p101 Vehicle building, Remote controls: What is the size of controllers and the security of the link?
    p103 Vehicle building, Features: You should decide on some limits. Are personal weapon mounts for passengers a feature or standard in the mount? (By default only a pilot or copilot can control them.)
    p111 Vehicle rules, Missile blasts: Should anti-vehicle missiles have a blast radius when used against people? (We like SRMs = 2m, LRMs = 4m, A4s = 6m, when used on people if they don't already have a blast radius.)
    p111 Vehicle rules, Vehicle CQC weapons: What to do when someone puts one on a vehicle without arms? Ban in, use it for ramming only, or use Acceleration for Strength?
    p132 Spelljammers, damage and Multipahsic shields: You need to decide how to run them. Should individual layers go down or do they only go down when all the layers are down? Does only one layer regenerate, or do all the layers regenerate? (The equations and tests for balancing the different shields worked on the assumption that all the layers have to be down at once for the shields to stay down, and that all layers had their own regeneration & disruption separate from the other layers.)
    p165 Weapons, Indirect weapons: Should the grenade launchers from Book 1 officially have this trait as well?
    p165 Weapons, Tandem Charge: Is it too strong an effect against people? Considering that, by default, its only available for vehicle weapons it doesn't seem too harsh.

    And a last call for an image. I'm quite willing to replace the "so long and thanks for all the fish" image, in part or in whole, with a different image or some insane ranting from one of you... loyal readers...

    Edit: and for no good reason i now have a corgi doc octopus build using a halfling werewolf tech priest

    Edit edit: the list is 9 pages, filled with my answers is 12. Think I'll go with attaching the no answers verson and do a little formatting to scrunch it down further.
    Last edited by Telok; 2021-09-23 at 01:45 PM.