1. - Top - End - #9
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Baron Corm's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Avatar by Kymme

    Default Re: I've Got 20 Arrows Aimed Straight at Your Heart [base class]

    The 20th level "capstone" is supposed to be upgrading the die of Ranged Precision. I thought that without that, there would be little reason to take it to 20, and if Ranged Precision was put on the odd levels, archers don't get anything fun to do at level one.

    @Mammon: Damn, this always tends to happen. It's like homebrewing ideas for one topic just pop into everyone's head at the same time. Probably subliminal messages or something. I'll go check yours out.

    Quote Originally Posted by JackTR69
    Hmm, i'd say this needs some playtesting. It looks like it could be balanced, except for how ridiculous multishot gets, which you could fix by making it something like 2 arrows up to level 5, then 3 at 5, 4 at 10, 5 at 15, and 6 at 20.

    Oh, and you should give them simple weapon proficiency.
    True on both accounts. Will have to test multishot, will add simple weapon proficiency now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ossian
    Besides, if a guy is able to pull a trick once, why should he be able to do so only a certain number of times per encounter? It's like being a good sniper with a 7x20 scope but only 3/day. Why?
    It's mostly a balance issue. But think about it. You can probably subtract 83490 from 282937, but it would take you a while (would take me a while), and is somewhat mentally draining. Using all of your focus to pull off these abilities is much more draining than subtraction, so you can only use them every so often.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ossian
    Wait a second. Thre are archers in the game. They are called fighters. They have high BAB (1/lvl) and a messload of feats that they can pick to improve their archery skills. Some of them take 2 levels in ranger and some go for some rogue, but basically they are fighters.
    Archer-fighters I don't think do enough to really be useful in a team of sorceror/barbarian/rogue or something at a similarly decent power level. Let's look at those feats, keeping in mind also that you get 7 over the course of your career without being a fighter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ossian
    Add the point blank, precise shot, multi shot, manyshot, weapon focus and weapon specialization, or their level 12 and 18 equivalents and a good magic bow and you already have a monster with a medieval Barrett M82
    And that is firing only 1 arrow per round. With high BAB things get even more ridiculously close to "Hercules the legendary Journay crossed over with Robin Hood man in tighs".
    Point Blank Shot - You can not have to take a penalty. Alright.

    Precise Shot - Ignoring concealment. Alright, but not helping damage or usefulness.

    Multishot - Pretty good but don't have to be a fighter to take it, and as shown with my class I think it does not give enough arrows (or in other words increase damage/usefulness enough). Giving more arrows for a feat would be too good, hence the class.

    Weapon Focus/Specialization - Often regarded as examples of very poor feats, making me think you haven't looked into optimization much (no offense). The bonuses they give are very small.

    And this is 5 feats, leaving you with another 15 or however many fighters get; an archer really doesn't need to be a fighter. The power level of the feats I think is very low as well. Anything else I could say about this I think was covered in the introduction to the class.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ossian
    What about a "ranged cleave". Everytime you manage to take down an enemy with one shot you get a free shot against the nearest target to the one you just shot down (provided it is in the SAME range increment). You could even get a "ranged great cleave" (but that is a bit too much...) or perhaps "ranged AOOs". That is, if your weapon is ready and the arrow set, everytime a target within point blank range does something that prevents him to defend effectively (casting, drinking a potion) you get an AOO on him.
    These I think stretch logic (or verisimilitude or w/e) a little bit too far.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ossian
    It is far too overpowered. One could get a magic bow that does that, but unless we're talking shonen anime tao-zen archer here, the ability to bypass the DR of a living body is just too much. A body can stop heavy bullets at point blank; arrows, OTOH, are light shafts that make you bleed to death, perhaps break a bone if you are lucky, or kill on the spot if they get a vital spot (heart, eyes, spine...)
    True, which is why it is an (Ex) class feature, and not a combat option. Extraordinary abilities stretch the rules of physics, they're just believable enough to not require magic. I suppose you don't think it is, but I do, so nyah .

    Quote Originally Posted by Ossian
    Why not just give the archer the Feat "Improved Critical" for free instead? he would qualify anyway, so even earlier than lvl 13. Maybe at said levels the range could improve further, or perhaps he'd get a bonus to the confirmation roll. So, a longbow threatens with 19-20. This becomes 17-20 at level , say, 8. Then it becomes 16-20 at level 13, 15-20 at level 16 and 15-20 with an increased multiplier (x4) by level 19 or 20.
    Another option would be that your archer threatens a critical normally (or with the IC feat) and if he does he automatically rolls max damage (by level 13).
    It is threatening normally. The Seeking ability does not let you confirm the critical automatically. I think if it was just increasing the threat range it would be underpowered and less fun/exciting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ossian
    I hope I have not been too disruptive! (in case, apologies).
    Not at all. I love constructive criticism. Even though I didn't agree with anything it helps to think about the class from new perspectives.