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Thread: OOTS #599 - The Discussion Thread

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    AstralFire's Avatar

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    Default Re: OOTS #599 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by spectralphoenix View Post
    So exactly how was cooperation going to help? The "aerial livery service" idea wasn't even feasible, unless V's plans for achieving ultimate arcane power have involved raising his strength score heavily. Durkon suggested that he heal V, and V countered with a suggestion to lower the fiends saves (a tactic which directly resulted in its defeat.)
    Please don't jump into an argument where one person (me) is taking on about 3 or 4 and not read past posts; it leads to more typing and ring-around-rosie debating than necessary:

    Quote Originally Posted by Me
    Fly spell. "Oh, hey, Hinjo can fly now and doesn't need to waste time making leaping one-attack charges, not to mention no longer being bunched up on the ground for the fiend's AoE blasts!" Enlarge person, any number of buffs or debuffs to make the front-liner a bigger and bigger threat so V can blast with less notice from a farther distance. V's spellbook isn't ALL direct damage, though the likely low amount of buffs he carries and his strategem in general also point towards his self-centeredness screwing over his competency.
    And as long as we're talking about it, Therkla left halfway through the fight, was probably significantly lower level than the PCs, and wasn't in a position to sudden strike.
    As did Elan - but I don't blame anyone for not anticipating their leaving, only for not utilizing them while they were there. Also, I'm pretty sure Therkla was PC level.

    Hinjo is 12th level or so, but was taking some hurt by then, and his dog was out of the picture.
    And coordination and cooperation would have minimized that.

    Lien is even lower level, and was having trouble beating the devil's DR.
    However, she has healing and the ability to support.

    Elan isn't terribly good at melee even at the best of times, and probably wasn't packing a silver rapier.
    He has gotten solidly better, and V has shown the ability to help Elan make good use of his spells before. There is also Inspire Courage to consider. Remember, I didn't say V was incapable, I said he was incompetent; Elan is incapable AND incompetent, though he's rising in both estimations slowly.

    Durkon is a healer, not CoDzilla.
    And people were getting hurt, and the Big D has shown the ability to lay a powerful smackdown more than once.

    As for the AC battle, consider what would have happened if either side hadn't had their high level characters. Without Redcloaks summons, the walls would have held much longer. V would have been free to blast the hobbos all day long without the Death Knight, and his enchanced soldiers could have kept killing. Xykon wouldn't have wiped out the occupants of the keep.

    On the other hand, Xykon has DR enough so that the common soldiers can't touch him. He could have bombarded the soldiers from his dragon (that they can't hurt with arrows either) until he runs out of spells, then land and make touch attacks until he re-dies of boredom. Without the hoards of ghosts in the throne room, he and Redcloak would have been virtually unopposed.
    At no point did I say or even suggest the high-level characters were irrelevant. That is not the same as saying the low-level ones are irrelevant either. Xykon is epic and can indeed epic-out the hordes of common soldiers, sure, but the OotS can't quite-so-easily do that to the hobgoblin armies. Having every inch of support against those armies helps.
    Last edited by AstralFire; 2008-10-08 at 02:07 PM.