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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Kris Strife's Avatar

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    Default I need some help

    I asked in another thread for optimization of a DFA. I thought about trying to go half dragon via dragon disciple (perfect flavor match up IMO) but the DM wouldnt house rule letting DFA qualify. So I need either a homebrew class that helps, a DD fix or a new class idea.

    Scores are 14 14 14 15 16 16 and they already have a cleric/warlock, barb, pal, fighter, rogue and druid and I have no intrest in playing a batman wizard, factotum or other cheesy base class.

    Exalted campaign, 3.5, 5th level, 5k gold.

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    Default Re: I need some help

    Dragon Shaman? I'm a little confused as to why your DM wouldn't houserule to let Dragonfire Adept qualify. If that doesn't qualify for Dragon Disciple, I doubt he'd let Dragon Shaman qualify as well.

    Might I suggest that Dragon Disciple isn't really worth it? I think the bonuses come a little too late for them to be useful. By the time you become a half-dragon, I you're kind of left behind.


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    Default Re: I need some help

    edit: Sorry, found your other thread, what I said isn't exactly valid. And I don't know the dragonfire adept enough to help you.
    I do know a few good dwarven defender builds though. :)
    Last edited by herrhauptmann; 2008-12-21 at 03:10 AM.

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    Kris Strife's Avatar

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    Default Re: I need some help

    DM wont let DFA qualify for it because it doesnt by RAW. I dont have access to PHII right now, so I can't look at Dragon Shaman. And they already have 3-4 meat sheilds as is.

    I did ask to take the draconic racial class from RoTD as a gestalt just for the four levels it takes, even made it fit the back ground and flavor for the character.

    Oh, and I also asked to play a paladin, but go greyguard and got told know because it'd lead to problems with the other paladin.

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    AslanCross's Avatar

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    Default Re: I need some help

    Well, if your DM's sticking to RAW on this, I doubt he'd let anything apart from Bard and Sorcerer qualify.


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  6. - Top - End - #6
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    Kris Strife's Avatar

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    Default Re: I need some help

    Warmage qualifies...

    The DM did offer to let me play a dragon born, but I dislike that they have the roleplay requirements of a stereotypical paladin by RAW: Must find and smite evil (dragons)! What is this 'fear' you speak of? Must show everyone how awesome my diety (Bahamut) is so they join his cause too! Must not have social life, only killing evil dragons matters!

    Am I wrong in thinking FDA fits the fluff of DD better than Sorcerer though?

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: I need some help

    While I find the Dragon Disciple lacking in many regards, if you're dead-set on getting into it? I believe Hexblade will get you there quickest.

  8. - Top - End - #8
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    Kris Strife's Avatar

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    Default Re: I need some help

    Not dead set on DD, but I would really like to become half dragon, so if there are superior methods for achieving this via a prestige class, I'd love to know. Also, hexblade isn't allowed its an exalted campaign, so we all need to have a good alignment.

  9. - Top - End - #9
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    Default Re: I need some help

    I know most people disagree here but DD can actually be made very working class with the sorcerer or bard. And yes, I am well familiar with character optimization and still think that way.

    DD itself is quite decent melee class. Honestly the +8 STR, +2 CHA, +2 CON, +2 INT, +4 natural armor, low-light vision, blind sense, wings, immunities, two good saves and the misc (claws, bite, breath weapon)... Yes, you lose 3 BAB. But it is still well enough abilities for 10 level PrC.

    So the only problem is getting there?

    With the bard you need to only take one level but can take up to four levels and still lose only one BAB. The inspire courage which adds +1 to attacks and damage, the better skills, 2nd level bard spells (if you take all the four levels)... They should be enough to pay back for that one BAB. And you can still cast in armor.

    Sorcerer... Well, you can only take up to two levels and can't cast in armor. But you get access to sor/wizard list and you can choose spells that don't have somatic components (so can be casted in armor). Choose spells that boost your melee capabilities. A few worth noting are True Strike (PHB, works nicely with power attack against highly armored foes), Blades of fire (Spell comp., swift cast, attacks deal extra 1d8 fire for one round) and Critical strike (spell comp., if you flank you deal extra damage and weapon is keen for one round, swift cast). Those swift casting spells with DD's extra spells per day work very well! And don't forget you can then use wands because they have easy-to-pass caster level checks.

    Or you could try to get fighter variant from PHB 2. I think there is some variant to let you cast low level arcane spells in light armor if you have some levels in fighter.

    But you absolutely don't want to lose BAB?

    Find PHB2 from somewhere. It has a class called duskblade. Spontaneous Arcane caster, full BAB. Combat enchanting spells. Alternatively taking four levels of hexblade (CWar, full bab) does the trick too.

    Don't want to even dip into a class? If I recall correctly, spell like abilities count as spellcasting for this kind of stuff. CArc has some feats to give you cantrips and 1st level spells as spell like abilities. And gnomes pass by virtue of race. ;)

    I could propably think of some more if I gave it more time but that should do the trick.
    Last edited by Lentava-Heppa; 2008-12-21 at 06:16 AM.

  10. - Top - End - #10
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    Kris Strife's Avatar

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    Default Re: I need some help

    Dont see that, but see one that grants you an extra spell slot of any lower your highest known with a requirement of caster level 3rd, which FDA's technically qualify for.

    Again, a homebrewed DD-esqe class thats has less suck (get the template faster and either grant sorcerer spell casting or +1 spell casting would be preferred) and DFA's qualify for on their own would be prefered.

    Also, does a high ability score grant additional invocations and can invocations be permanancied?

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    ElfRangerGuy

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    Default Re: I need some help

    Well, there's the Dragon Devotee prestige class in Races of the Dragon. If you take all 5 levels, you gain the Draconic template. However, it will also qualify any character to switch to Dragon Disciple after only 3 levels, as you gain 1st level Sorcerer spellcasting at 3rd. It's a pretty good class with some nice features and ability increases, so you should at least take a look at it.
    "Nothing you can't spell will ever work." - Will Rogers

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    Default Re: I need some help

    Quote Originally Posted by KillianHawkeye View Post
    Well, there's the Dragon Devotee prestige class in Races of the Dragon. If you take all 5 levels, you gain the Draconic template. However, it will also qualify any character to switch to Dragon Disciple after only 3 levels, as you gain 1st level Sorcerer spellcasting at 3rd. It's a pretty good class with some nice features and ability increases, so you should at least take a look at it.
    I have, it is better than just DD, but thats 13 lvls for a +3 LA

  13. - Top - End - #13
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    Kris Strife's Avatar

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    Default Re: I need some help

    An update: The DM thinks monk is a good class, has never heard of Pun-Pun and this will be a PbP game.

    Should I make a kobold wizard and summon Pazuzu ASAP?

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    Default Re: I need some help

    If you do, please get it on tape and put it on youtube.

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    Default Re: I need some help

    Quote Originally Posted by Mephit View Post
    If you do, please get it on tape and put it on youtube.
    I'd link the thread. Its PbP.

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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: I need some help

    Your only goal is to be a half dragon through play?

    Ask the GM if he'll allow the Draconic racial class (Races of the Dragon, Pg 71)

    Pick any non draconic race:

    L1 = normal L1 for your class (whatever class you wish to choose), with additional skill bonus (+2 on intimidate and spot)
    L2 = no class level gained (must be taken at character Level 2), LA+1 applied, some stat gains and other benefits
    character is now "draconic"

    gain class levels until ready for stage 2 (half dragon)
    L3= no class level this level or next level, LA+1, stat gain and other benefits
    L4= no class level (must be taken immediately after previous level of draconic racial class), LA+1, stat gain and other benefits.
    character is now a half dragon

    character only gains wings if Large sized or bigger.
    Last edited by only1doug; 2008-12-21 at 08:52 PM.
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  17. - Top - End - #17
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: I need some help

    Quote Originally Posted by Kris Strife View Post
    Scores are 14 14 14 15 16 16 and they already have a cleric/warlock, barb, pal, fighter, rogue and druid and I have no intrest in playing a batman wizard, factotum or other cheesy base class.

    Exalted campaign, 3.5, 5th level, 5k gold.
    If your GM does allow the draconic racial class i'd go for:

    DFA4/ECL1

    (remember to ask about ECL buyoff :P ) if he allows ECL buyoff you start play with a DFA4 (L4 character with L4 xp, the +1 ECL is gone, as is your XP for hitting L5). this will allow you to level quicker and you'll catch up with the others. discuss the Level adjust buyoff with your GM though, its very cheesy to buy off the Level adjust and then "buy" more ECL with levels....

    I'd hold off until L8-9 before taking the step to half dragon, you need to have enough HP to survive for 2 levels of no HP gain.

    I'm not certain that the last 2 levels of the draconic racial class are really worth it for a DFA, breath weapon (redundant?), armour bonus (shouldn't be getting hit), str bonus (shouldn't be meleeing) and int bonus.... they just don't really add to a DFA's thing.
    Doug

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  18. - Top - End - #18
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    Default Re: I need some help

    If you're set on taking Half-dragon then simply take the template as you have enough levels to spend on it. It's a 3 LA versus the 10 levels you'd have to invest with Dragon Disciple. Even if your DM won't allow you to use the buy-off rules then you still come out ahead by several levels. Also, if you can't get the buy-off, see if he'll allow you the change the LA to Racial levels; I'd think it would still be less than the 10 for Dragon Disciple.
    Thanks to NEO|Phyte for the Black Templar avatar. You will kneel before the God-Emperor, or you will be knelt.

  19. - Top - End - #19
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    Kris Strife's Avatar

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    Default Re: I need some help

    I discussed the racial class and got told no, might do the buyback, though I cant start that until 9th. Said I can make a hellbred thats good if I make a backstory because that'd be 'interesting for the campaign' and he wants to see 'a good aligned evil outsider be played'.

    I know that some of a half dragon's abilities are redundant for DFA, but I'd get some of them much earlier and I think its an interesting concept.

  20. - Top - End - #20
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    Default Re: I need some help

    Quote Originally Posted by Kris Strife View Post
    I discussed the racial class and got told no, might do the buyback, though I cant start that until 9th. Said I can make a hellbred thats good if I make a backstory because that'd be 'interesting for the campaign' and he wants to see 'a good aligned evil outsider be played'.

    I know that some of a half dragon's abilities are redundant for DFA, but I'd get some of them much earlier and I think its an interesting concept.
    Well, sucks you can't get the racial class, but still simply taking the template is much better than wasting levels in Dragon Disciple.
    Thanks to NEO|Phyte for the Black Templar avatar. You will kneel before the God-Emperor, or you will be knelt.

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    Kris Strife's Avatar

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    Default Re: I need some help

    Quote Originally Posted by graymachine View Post
    Well, sucks you can't get the racial class, but still simply taking the template is much better than wasting levels in Dragon Disciple.
    True. I do think its a load of manure that he wont let me play a concept I like, then strongly leans to one he likes. He cant understand why a half dragon would want to understand and emulate dragons. He's read part of RotD supposedly, and according to my copy, some half dragons choose to turn to their dragon side for power.

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    Default Re: I need some help

    I have a Silverbrow Human Paladin with a low enough Wisdom that he won't be able to cast spells. So the plan is, when he hits 4th level, he has a crisis of faith in his god, because the god refuses to grant him spells, so he turns to his draconic heritage for a source of magic, multiclassing into sorcerer.

    Is that what you meant by a draconic character wanting to embrace their draconic nature? Also, I don't think I've seen a better balanced "Savage Progression" than that one in RoTD. Your DM is being quite the stickler.

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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: I need some help

    Quote Originally Posted by Kris Strife View Post
    I discussed the racial class and got told no, might do the buyback, though I cant start that until 9th. Said I can make a hellbred thats good if I make a backstory because that'd be 'interesting for the campaign' and he wants to see 'a good aligned evil outsider be played'.

    I know that some of a half dragon's abilities are redundant for DFA, but I'd get some of them much earlier and I think its an interesting concept.
    Have you considered just taking the draconic template? (pg74 RotD) that's a +1 Level adjustment which grants you most of the abilities of dragons that are best for DFA's, You'll never be a half dragon but you still get all the best bits (excluding breath weapon, but that's not a best bit for a DFA).

    gain: dragonblood subtype, +1 natural armour, 2 claw attacks, low light vision, darkvision 60', +4 save vs sleep and paralysis, str+con+cha+2, intimidate and spot +2 racial bonus.
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  24. - Top - End - #24
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    Kris Strife's Avatar

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    Default Re: I need some help

    Got him to agree to level buy off, stay tuned for class and item optimization help.

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