Yet another guy confused about CR.

[Arros Winhadren]

So I get that something of CR 3 is suitable for four 3rd level adventurers. But I have six 3rd level adventurers. So do I throw them up against something of CR 4? Two CR 3s? I'm also confused about how class levels translate into CR. I'm trying to figure out what a good challenge would be for my party to fight as a boss. I want to have them fight a high-level cleric, but I'm not sure if something around 6-7th level is too tough or too easy for six people to take on.

[KeresM]

I believe they claim that if you have 4 3rd level characters, a CR 3 encounter should consume 15% of their resources (spells, hit points, etc..)

[RS14]

I always just use the d20 Encounter Calculator.

[fractic]

As KeresM already said, CR 3 means a normal (not very easy or difficult) encounter for 4 level 3 PCs. Now with 6 PC of a given level are just about as strong as 4 of one level higher. So a single CR 4 creature would be appropriate. Two CR 3 creatures would equal one of CR 5 so they can take it but it's bit of a difficult encounter.

Besides this the players have the advantage of numbers. Being with six gives them the ability to gang up on just a single monster. So a CR 4 would be a bit easier then two CR 2 which would be the same for a 4 person party. I'd recommend using two creatures most of the time. Maybe a CR 2 and a CR 3 or something like that. But keep it varied of course.

[UserClone]

Well, the reason that the CR system breaks down is that the more players you have, the more actions they can perform than can that one monster, hydras aside. You have to retool your encounters with slightly lower-level creatures, but more of them, to get it to work something resembling well. If you double the number of a creature, you generally can either double, or add two to the CR, whichever gives you the lower CR.

(i.e., 2 CR 1 creatures ~ CR 2, 4 CR 1's CR 4 8 CR 5's ~ CR11, BUT this doesn't really work, because 5th level appropriate creatures are really weak vs. level11 PCs.) Basically, you'll have to experiment and learn to eyeball it.

Edit: But with so many PCs, I'd rarely throw just 1 monster at them.

[JaxGaret]

Just wing it. When you TPK your party you'll know you've gone too far.

[AslanCross]

Encounter calculators are helpful. Keep in mind that throwing just one monster against several PCs is usually going to end up getting that monster killed really quickly (especially if it's humanoid). The sheer amount of actions a 6-PC party gets versus even a single monster that has a CR that's considered "overpowering" by the DMG is still going to die quickly.

I have a 5-PC party in my campaign. When they were level 6, they were up against a CR 11 Warblade MBEG. She almost died in 3 rounds and barely hurt anyone.

Unless the opponent is a caster with very formidable defenses and the players don't know what they're doing, it's likely that they're going to die very quickly.

[Magnor Criol]

But with so many PCs, I'd rarely throw just 1 monster at them.

This.

The fact that you have 6 PCs means that as a party, they could get in, technically, 6 attacks on a lone boss to his 1 attack, meaning he'll be at a severe disadvantage, especially when the PCs start throwing out disabling effects and buffers around.

As said, it's far from an exact science, and it'll just take some working with it to get the hang of it. But in general multiple enemies are tougher than one strong enemy.

[Starscream]

The fact that you have 6 PCs means that as a party, they could get in, technically, 6 attacks on a lone boss to his 1 attack, meaning he'll be at a severe disadvantage, especially when the PCs start throwing out disabling effects and buffers around.

Exactly, even if the monster was powerful enough to kill a player character a round, he'd still have to suffer 21 attacks before taking down a six man party. Even a couple of low level grunts can turn the tide of a battle like this, because the players have to waste time dealing with them and the Big Bad has more rounds in which to act.

[AslanCross]

Exactly, even if the monster was powerful enough to kill a player character a round, he'd still have to suffer 21 attacks before taking down a six man party. Even a couple of low level grunts can turn the tide of a battle like this, because the players have to waste time dealing with them and the Big Bad has more rounds in which to act.

It could work both ways too. The same 5 PCs who trashed the warblade went up against a CR 10 Bluespawn Godslayer (huge sized humanoid blue dragonspawn with a big sword) and two CR 9 Bluespawn Burrowers (large sized dragonspawn that shoot lightning out of their tails. ) The PCs ignored the burrowers and swarmed the slow-moving Godslayer. By the time they were in attack range, one of the burrowers started spamming with its tail lightning. I had the other one grapple the cleric and drag her underground. The aasimar paladin thought his resistance to electricity would keep him alive through the 6d6 lightning bursts, but ended up getting smacked by the Godslayer with Awesome Blow. He flew back 20 feet with negative HP. The Godslayer died rather quickly, but they sure underestimated the burrowers.