Pixie Rogue build help

[Enochi]

Hello again. I am thinking about making a new character again and was thinking about making a pixie rogue/swashbuckler type character. I was planning on a Rogue 8/Swash 8 and getting some feats to enhance invisablity like spectral skirmisher. The swash isnt set in stone nor the feats so I would just like some ideas for brain storming the character.

[RTGoodman]

Well, first, you're probably not going to need 8 levels of Swashbuckler - just get three levels of it (enough for Weapon Finesse for free, Grace, and Int to Damage) and then take Daring Outlaw feat from Complete Scoundrel. (It lets levels in the two classes stack for Sneak Attack, Grace, and dodge bonus to AC.) After that, just take as many Rogue levels as possible (to maximize Sneak Attack) and go to town.

Also, see your DM about whether or not you can use LA Buyoff Rules, which should get you one extra level in there somewhere. If so, your final build would be something like Pixie LA 3/Swashbuckler 3/Rogue 14, which'll nab you +9d6 Sneak Attack. For other feats, that depends. Craven could up your damage, as could TWF, which you'll probably be pretty good with considering the penalties are lessened by your boost to BAB from Swashbuckler and your +8 racial Dex bonus.

[Kristoss]

Checkout the pixie handbook for some good options.
I would suggest trying to get the shadow blade feat from ToB p32 to get dex to damage. It's requirements mean either a heavy feat investment or a level in swordsage.
Also if you want to avoid multiclass penalties while rapidly advancing SA, look at the invisible blade prestige class (CW p45). Invisible blade provides SA every 2 levels, a good backup if invisibility fails and Int to AC.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Well, first, you're probably not going to need 8 levels of Swashbuckler - just get three levels of it (enough for Weapon Finesse for free, Grace, and Int to Damage) and then take Daring Outlaw feat from Complete Scoundrel. (It lets levels in the two classes stack for Sneak Attack, Grace, and dodge bonus to AC.) After that, just take as many Rogue levels as possible (to maximize Sneak Attack) and go to town.

Good advice, except for one thing. If you're going for some sort of duelist type, especially with that LA, it's probably better to max Swash instead of Rogue. Because of Daring Outlaw you'll still get sneak attack, but it will be with a better BaB and better Hp as well. Your choice in the end, though.

[RTGoodman]

Good advice, except for one thing. If you're going for some sort of duelist type, especially with that LA, it's probably better to max Swash instead of Rogue. Because of Daring Outlaw you'll still get sneak attack, but it will be with a better BaB and better Hp as well. Your choice in the end, though.

I was actually just coming back to edit my post and add that in - I always forget that Swashbuckler has full BAB, so I figured Rogue would be better because of the better class features (Evasion, rogue special abilities, etc.). Either way works, though, I guess.

[Stephen_E]

I suggest you 1st read the SRD on Pixies. See below.
You'll note that they get Weapon Finnesse as a bonus feat. In short I'm not sure you want to take Swashbuckler at all.

If you're looking for a Swashbuckler Rogue type I think you might be better off just playing a Scout. This is especially good if your GM allows you to take the "Great Flyby Attack" from Savage Species. Allow you to fly along a line and attack a number of targets along that line within your reach upto your Dex modifier. This has the advantage of not having to end your turn next to the enemy. Note Scout also had D8 HD (good HD are crucial to Pixies).

Whatever classes you take seriously think about Spiked Chain. The reach means you can full attack without been adjacent to your enemy. Again I stress. Avoid ending up adjacent to your enemy. Greater invisibility can NOT be relied on to save you.

If you can manage taking your 1st level as Barbarian without getting hit by multiclass penalties I suggest you strongly think about doing so. the 12hps + Con bonus could be the difference between life and death, considering those are the only hps you get for the 1st 5 levels.

Stephen E

Pixies As Characters
A pixie character exchanges its 1 HD of fey for its first class level.

Pixie characters possess the following racial traits.

-4 Strength, +8 Dexterity, +6 Intelligence, +4 Wisdom, +6 Charisma.
Small size. +1 bonus to Armor Class, +1 bonus on attack rolls, +4 bonus on Hide checks, -4 penalty on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits ¾ those of Medium characters.
A pixie’s base land speed is 20 feet. It also has a fly speed of 60 feet (good).
Low-light vision.
Skills: Pixies have a +2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks.
Racial Feats: A pixie receives Dodge and Weapon Finesse as bonus feats.
+1 natural armor bonus.
Special Attacks (see above): Spell-like abilities.
Special Qualities (see above): Damage reduction 10/cold iron, greater invisibility, spell resistance equal to 15 + class levels.
Automatic Languages: Common, Sylvan. Bonus Languages: Elven, Gnome, Halfling.
Favored Class: Sorcerer.
Level adjustment +4 (+6 if the pixie can use irresistible dance).

[TempusCCK]

No, do not take Swashbuckler past 3, it's a very poor class after that point, you'd be better off with Swash 3/Rogue 17 and maybe some fighter crammed in there for extra feats.

[Enochi]

I Think I am gonna go with either

Rogue 5/ Swordsage 6/ Invisible Blade 5

or

Fighter 16 with
Dodge(pixie bonus)
Weapon Finnesse(pixie bonus)
Imp Initiative
Mobility
Exotic weapon(Spiked chain or Elven Courtblade or Thinblade)
Combat Reflexes
2 weapon Fighting
Weapon Focus(spiked Chain or Elven Courtblade or Thinblade)
Darkstalker
Flyby Attack
Imp Flight
Elusive target
Spectral Skirmisher
Imp 2 Weapon fighting
Robilars gambit
Deft opportunist
Double hit
Vexing Flanker
Adaptable Flanker


or can anyone think of anything better cause I know I cant :/

[Enochi]

What about the Dervish prc? Do you think that could work well?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

What about the Dervish prc? Do you think that could work well?

Not enough levels, and the build is wrong.

You're already loosing 4 levels on racial (not a bad race, one of the few 3+LA races that can be worth it), and you're wanting to rogue/swash anyways. Not going to be able to fit Dervish in there. Sorry.

If you want to get a 1 level dip in Swordsage, you can get Island of Blades (flank if any of your allies threaten it, regardless of normal flanking dyanamics) as a stance, then go with Shadow Blade to add Dex to damage, since you've already got Weapon Finesse.

[only1doug]

I Think I am gonna go with either

Rogue 5/ Swordsage 6/ Invisible Blade 5

or

Fighter 16 with
Dodge(pixie bonus)
Weapon Finnesse(pixie bonus)
Imp Initiative
Mobility
Exotic weapon(Spiked chain or Elven Courtblade or Thinblade)
Combat Reflexes
2 weapon Fighting
Weapon Focus(spiked Chain or Elven Courtblade or Thinblade)
Darkstalker
Flyby Attack
Imp Flight
Elusive target
Spectral Skirmisher
Imp 2 Weapon fighting
Robilars gambit
Deft opportunist
Double hit
Vexing Flanker
Adaptable Flanker


or can anyone think of anything better cause I know I cant :/

sneak attack Variant + thug variant fighter (they can specifically stack) Losing all fighter feats and heavy armour proficiency but gaining better skill points and sneak attack damage.

[Enochi]

One of the problems I am running into with what to run rogue/swash is the multiclass exp penalties. Anyway to get around those?

(edit) Also how does the 1st hd as class work exactly?

[monty]

One of the problems I am running into with what to run rogue/swash is the multiclass exp penalties. Anyway to get around those?

(edit) Also how does the 1st hd as class work exactly?

Did you ask your DM to confirm that they're actually enforcing those penalties? Personally, I've never played in a game that used them.

You lose the fey hit die the standard pixie has, and get a class level instead. So, instead of LA 4 / Fey 1 / Whatever X, it's just LA 4 / Whatever X.

[Devils_Advocate]

Pixie SRD entry. Scroll down to the "Pixies As Characters" bit. There ya go. All their racial traits. (Well, they also have the Fey type.) Pixies with class levels don't have to worry about the weirdness of racial HD.

Note that this is changed from the MM entry, incorporating errata. They gave them Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat in place of a 1/day Polymorph Self ability they used to have. Much more balanced. Be sure to use the current version.

Pixie is great for a straight-up Rogue archer build. This is one of the few builds where LA is worth it and then some. Almost everything you lose by giving up levels gets made up for via excellent racial bonuses. Flight completely removes the need for several skills. Combine that with high Int, and you can fill both the breaking-and-entering and social-skills roles quite well. Invisibility lets you conveniently sneak attack at range without needing to endanger yourself by moving in to flank. Don't let the low Fort save and hit points worry you, your foes have to get past a solid array of defenses before those even become an issue.

Archery is just more a typical pixie's style. They much prefer to use their flight and invisibility to avoid being hit, staying out of melee range and out of sight. A swashbuckler is more about acrobatically tumbling and jumping around on the ground. Doing that when you can fly strikes me as kind of like a human attacking without using his hands.

But, of course, Adventurers Are Weird. A pixie melee fighter might not be any more insane than the people he works with. It just doesn't strike me as particularly optimal nor natural for the race, is what I'm saying.

Special note: Encumbrance by weight really is a balance factor, especially for a low-Strength Small race that can fly, but only with no more than a light load. So don't just ignore this, and don't just blindly dump a pixie's Str. Being rather limited in what she can carry is a restriction that a pixie has to worry about in the normal course of various tasks, just as her landbound companions sometimes have a hard time circumventing obstacles she can just fly over. And she'll take her own abilities and limits for granted every bit as much as a human does.

[Enochi]

Ok thanks for the help. Here is a tentative build that looks promising.

1: Pixie: Dodge (racial), (Weapon Finesse), Weapon focus: (Daggers)
2: Pixie
3: Pixie: Point Blank Shot
4: Pixie
5: Fighter: Precise Shot
6: Rogue: Far Shot
7: Fighter: Rapid Shot
8: Rogue:
9: Rogue: Two Weapon Fighting
10: Invisible Blade
11: Master Thrower Quick Draw
12: Invisible Blade Many Shot
13: Invisible Blade
14: Invisible Blade
15: Invisible Blade Improved Rapid Shot
16: Master Thrower
17: Master Thrower
18: Master Thrower Improved two weapon fighting
19: Master Thrower
20: ?

Thoughts?

[Enochi]

With this build I think by 19 ecl I should be able to toss 12 daggers a round correct?

[monty]

Drop Manyshot; it doesn't apply to thrown weapons.

[Fostire]

Note Scout also had D8 HD (good HD are crucial to Pixies).

With spell resistance, damage reduction, a +8 to dex, +1 natural armor, flight, and greater invisibility at will I'd say that a big HD isn't that important.
Unless the enemy has flight they can only shoot arrows or spells. Spells will find it hard to get past SR and since arrows can't be power attack'd, they will find it hard to get past the DR. Even if the enemy has flight they still have to find him (due to invisibility) and even if they do, he still has a pretty good AC.

[Enochi]

Drop Manyshot; it doesn't apply to thrown weapons.

Its prereq for Imp Rapid Shot

[monty]

Its prereq for Imp Rapid Shot

Ah. Never mind, then.

[Chineselegolas]

You don't get feats in LA. 1st level feat would be at ECL 5, when you take your first class level and gain your first HD. And then the 2nd at 3HD

[Assassin89]

Two words: Irresistible Dance

The effect imposes a -4 penalty to Armor Class and a -10 penalty on Reflex saves, and it negates any AC bonus granted by a shield the target holds.

It makes sneak attacks easier to hit

[Enochi]

You don't get feats in LA. 1st level feat would be at ECL 5, when you take your first class level and gain your first HD. And then the 2nd at 3HD

Ouch does that effect things like inciator level for ToB:Manuevers too?

Two words: Irresistible Dance

It makes sneak attacks easier to hit

yeah very nice but as only 1/10 pixies have it makes in unlikely I would from a rp perspective. Also it is another 2 level ajustment.

[ericgrau]

Ok thanks for the help. Here is a tentative build that looks promising.

1: Pixie: Dodge (racial), (Weapon Finesse), Weapon focus: (Daggers)
2: Pixie
3: Pixie: Point Blank Shot
4: Pixie
5: Fighter: Precise Shot
6: Rogue: Far Shot
7: Fighter: Rapid Shot
8: Rogue:
9: Rogue: Two Weapon Fighting
10: Invisible Blade
11: Master Thrower Quick Draw
12: Invisible Blade Many Shot
13: Invisible Blade
14: Invisible Blade
15: Invisible Blade Improved Rapid Shot
16: Master Thrower
17: Master Thrower
18: Master Thrower Improved two weapon fighting
19: Master Thrower
20: ?

Thoughts?

You don't get feats for LA. Only HD and class levels. For all in game purposes your LA does not exist. It's only for balancing you with others. (EDIT: so it does exist in regards to xp, for example).

At higher levels you'll want a powerful magic weapon, and needing to carry multiple weapons severely limits how much you can spend on each one. That's on top of another -2 and light weapon; all those combined can easily make you weak. Your strength may hurt your thrown damage. Daggers are up to you, and I dunno maybe master thrower makes up for it, but I wouldn't.

I'd get a shortbow or crossbow myself. Rapid shot is well worth it b/c there's nothing to worry about besides the -2. You can then stack damage enchantments on top of your sneak attack for a massive total, with maybe a little enhancment bonus to keep your AB up.

Other notable gear: boots of speed for haste, gloves of dex, bracers of archery, lots of light weight darkwood and mithril b/c your strength is low. If your dex meets or exceeds 24 (which it probably will), get monk's belt + bracers of armor (or a friendly mage w/ mage armor). That'll give cheaper AC. Since you already have endless invisibility you shouldn't need much AC though. Focus on your weapon.

[Enochi]

Ok thanks everyone for the help here is another build. Im not sure if the feats I have are worth it in the end but I figured it was worth a try.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ar?id...e&scol=0&ecol=

Its a Fighter/Thug Sneak attack variant so pretty close to a rogue. Thanks for the info on the crossbow I think there is a feat that lets me add 1/2 dex damage to it as well. I will look into it next.

[Darrin]

One of the problems I am running into with what to run rogue/swash is the multiclass exp penalties. Anyway to get around those?

There's a feat in Unearthed Arcana, I think it's called Additional Favored Class.

Other than that, there are a few templates that add or change your favored class, but unfortunately I'm not aware of any that favor rogues or swashbucklers. Dragonborn of Bahumat would add Fighter (and I think there's a sneak attack ACF for fighters?), but you'd lose all of your really cool Pixie racial class abilities.

[monty]

Dragonborn of Bahumat would add Fighter (and I think there's a sneak attack ACF for fighters?), but you'd lose all of your really cool Pixie racial class abilities.

Hey look! Now for my +4 LA I get...some stat modifiers and small size. Yay.

[Enochi]

Ok here is a Ranged build that should work. What do you think?

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ar?id...e&scol=0&ecol=

[Vortling]

Ok here is a Ranged build that should work. What do you think?

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ar?id...e&scol=0&ecol=

Your link gives me a blank page.

[Enochi]

Class BAB Fort Reflex Will Ability 1 Ability 2 Ability 3 Ability 4 Sneak Attack Attack Damage
.
1 Pixie Dodge (Racial) Weapon Fineasse(Racial)
.
2 Pixie
.
3 Pixie
.
4 Pixie
.
5 Fighter 1 2 0 0 Rapid Reload Weapon focus:(Light Crossbow) 11 1d6
.
6 Fighter 2 3 0 0 Crossbow Sniper 12 1d6+4
.
7 Rogue: 2 3 2 0 Point Blank Shot Trapfinding 1d6 12 1d6+4
.
8 Rogue: 3 3 3 0 Evasion 1 dex 13 1d6+4
.
9 Rogue: 4 4 3 1 Trap Sense +1 2d6 14 1d6+4
.
10 Fighter 5 4 4 2 Rapid Shot 13/13 (1d6+4)x2
.
11 Fighter 6 5 4 2 Weapon Specialization: Light Crossbow 14/14/9 (1d6+6)x3

.
12 Avenger 6 5 6 2 Death Attack Poison Use 1 dex 3d6 15/15/10 (1d6+6)x3

.
13 Avenger 7 5 7 2 Precise Shot poison +1 Uncanny Dodge 16/16/11 (1d6+6)x3

.
14 Avenger 8 6 7 3 4d6 17/17/12 (1d6+6)x3

.
15 Avenger 9 6 8 3 poison +2 18/18/13 (1d6+6)x3

.
16 Avenger 9 6 8 3 Many Shot Imp uncanny Dodge 1 dex 5d6 18/18/13 (1d6+6)x3

.
17 Avenger 10 7 9 4 poison +3 19/19/14 (1d6+6)x3

.
18 Avenger 11 7 9 4 6d6 20/20/15/10 (1d6+6)x4

.
19 Avenger 12 7 10 4 Improved Rapid Shot poison +4 Hide in Plain Sight 23/23/18/13 (1d6+6)x4


.
20 Avenger 12 8 10 5 1 dex 7d6 24/24/19/14 (1d6+7)x4
.

.
32 Point buy Base Racial 1st level 20th
.
Race: Pixie Str: 14 -4 10 10
.
Weapon: Daggers Dex: 18 8 26 30
.
Con: 14 14 14
.
Wis: 6 4 10 14
.
Int: 16 6 22 14
.
Cha: 4 6 10 11
.
AC 10 2 20 22