Forging Rings at 1st Level

[maijstral]

In the Silver Marches book the benefits of joining the Ladies College are given. In exchange for paying 4,000 gp per year (less if you're below 7th level), you gain; a +2 bonus on your spellcraft checks to learn new spells (pretty much useless), one free spell per quarter (you have to spend 30 days taking classes), you can copy any spell for half the market price of a scroll of that spell, and best of all you can craft any magic item without having the item creation feat. You have to pay an extra 10% of the market price of the item and you have to meet all of the other requirements of the item.

Obviously you're not going to be forging Rings of Djinni Calling any time soon, but a Ring Of Feather Fall, requiring a caster level of 1 and the spell Feather Fall, is within your reach if you can pony up the 1320 gp.

I like that you are able to make low powered Rings and Staffs at low level. What are your opinions?

[herrhauptmann]

It's good, and most of the schools in silverymoon have a similar effect. But, how is a 1st level character going to get that kind of cash?
2nd edition let your characters take off for a game year or so and earn money easily but slowly. 3rd and 3.5 don't allow you to make a profit that way, the best you can do is break even or work your way up to WBL. One book gives details on this, regarding military power, mercantile power, political power. I forget which...

[maijstral]

I wanted to know how many people would be willing to use this system as an alternate to the Item Creation feats? In my experience few players take the higher level feats, because they don't want to spend a valuable feat on something they'll probably use only once.

[valadil]

I wanted to know how many people would be willing to use this system as an alternate to the Item Creation feats? In my experience few players take the higher level feats, because they don't want to spend a valuable feat on something they'll probably use only once.

Depends on the game and the character. I've seen PCs who do nothing but craft. The character is boring in combat, but his out of combat contributions more than make up for it.

[Gorbash]

Or you're just an Artificer and don't really worry about taking Item Creation feats.

[Starscream]

2nd edition let your characters take off for a game year or so and earn money easily but slowly. 3rd and 3.5 don't allow you to make a profit that way, the best you can do is break even or work your way up to WBL.

Well, there is information in the Arms and Equipment Guide for how much you can expect to earn per day doing a large number of "normal" jobs such as carpentry, animal training, blacksmithing, etc. If your player wants to take a year off raiding evil temples and join the crew of a ship or something, you can easily calculate how much he'll earn.

It won't be much, of course. There's a reason adventurers are willing to leave life on the farm behind and face dragons. Those big piles of gold are nice.

[skywalker]

Or you're just an Artificer and don't really worry about taking Item Creation feats.

Yes. This is what most crafters do these days.

[Irreverent Fool]

Yes. This is what most crafters do these days.

I prefer playing a wizard and spending my bonus feats on item creation. Artificers are great and all but you know, wizard.

obnoxious
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[Bayar]

Or you're just an Artificer and don't really worry about taking Item Creation feats.

I would houserule that you can craft items with that ability from the Ladies college just like an artificier, to prevent abuse...

Not that it is too abusable at level 1...

[Asheram]

I prefer playing a wizard and spending my bonus feats on item creation. Artificers are great and all but you know, wizard.

obnoxious
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Or you go get a few item creation feats and go get a level 12 Warlock.
Especially scribe scroll... Muahahaha!
Get Transference and then... Well. Go make some scrolls of Wish.

[Tequila Sunrise]

I like that you are able to make low powered Rings and Staffs at low level. What are your opinions?

My opinion is that item creation feats have needlessly arbitrary level requirements. Really, who cares if a 1st level caster can make minor magic junk of any type? And seriously, wands and staves requiring different feats is absurd. They do the same frickin' thing; one just provides more options than the other. It's like requiring a second feat in order to add bonus-equivalent enchantments to arms and armor.

TS

[Devils_Advocate]

2nd edition let your characters take off for a game year or so and earn money easily but slowly. 3rd and 3.5 don't allow you to make a profit that way, the best you can do is break even or work your way up to WBL.

Well, there are the Craft, Profession, and Perform skills, but nothing to abstract away the use of PCs' exceptional combat and magical abilities in relatively safe jobs.

You could conceivably work something up, though. Make up a whole Downtime Table, even, to determine how long they work at a particular job before a challenging on-screen event comes up, either as part of the job or due to outside forces.

I prefer playing a wizard and spending my bonus feats on item creation. Artificers are great and all but you know, wizard.

Well, artifice is very fitting for dwarves. They're stereotypically good at Fighting Things and Making Things, so it's nice that there's finally a Making Things base class that quite suits them. It's easy to see artifice as their tradition of learned magic use, along with wizardry for gnomes and bardic magic for elves (if you want to be sensible).

My opinion is that item creation feats have needlessly arbitrary level requirements.

Huh. Now that you mention it, yeah. It's not like the items' XP and GP requirements are insufficient to prevent the acquisition of level-inappropriate gear. It's not like making something instead of just buying it lets you get it all that much earlier, it just lets you change half the cost to XP instead of GP.

[LibraryOgre]

I interpret that ability as having another individual in the college make the item for you.

[bosssmiley]

My opinion is that item creation feats have needlessly arbitrary level requirements. Really, who cares if a 1st level caster can make minor magic junk of any type? And seriously, wands and staves requiring different feats is absurd. They do the same frickin' thing; one just provides more options than the other. It's like requiring a second feat in order to add bonus-equivalent enchantments to arms and armor.

Oh, you mean like Craft Epic Arms and Armour in the Broken B*ll*cks Bumper Fun Book?

The Item Creation feats as written are daft. Needless division of game mechanic and cosmetic effects. Just re-write them as:

Craft Arms & Armour (enhancement bonus stuff)
Craft Mighty Magic Boomstick (charged wands, rods and staves)
Craft Metamagic Item (that'd be metamagic Rods and CL-enhancement cheese)
Craft Potions (use-activated items, alchemical weaksauce and such)
Craft Scroll (covers all Spell Completion items)
Craft Wondrous Item (includes Create Construct, Forge Ring and the non-existent Craft Magic Trap)

No lower level limits. You can get out of each feat whatever utility your spells and caster level allow.

[LibraryOgre]

Oh, you mean like Craft Epic Arms and Armour in the Broken B*ll*cks Bumper Fun Book?

The Item Creation feats as written are daft. Needless division of game mechanic and cosmetic effects. Just re-write them as:

Craft Arms & Armour (enhancement bonus stuff)
Craft Mighty Magic Boomstick (charged wands, rods and staves)
Craft Metamagic Item (that'd be metamagic Rods and CL-enhancement cheese)
Craft Potions (use-activated items, alchemical weaksauce and such)
Craft Scroll (covers all Spell Completion items)
Craft Wondrous Item (includes Create Construct, Forge Ring and the non-existent Craft Magic Trap)

No lower level limits. You can get out of each feat whatever utility your spells and caster level allow.

I'd instead divide them up by means of activation and duration; more reasonable, in game.

Spell Completion is the simplest; it also relies on the user's skill, not just the creator's skill.
Consumable and Spell Trigger are next. One is just a spell effect, instantly bestowed. The other relies on the person's training to allow them to use a stored spell.
Permanent Items are last available... they permanently imbue something with magic, or have magic that can be activated by anyone, more or less indefinitely.