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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2008

    Default Base Class: Apocalypto

    I made this class some time ago. At the time, people complained it was overpowered. I ran it through the gauntlet and the results showed that it wasn't overpowered. I did change some abilities, but for most part it stayed unchanged. Did I miss something?

    Apocalypto-“the end is near…”
    “The trees shall be torn in half,
    The birds will be severed from the sky.
    The water will swell red as death,
    And the maggots will seek the light.”
    (Slightly adapted Psyclon Nine, “Lamb of God”)


    Basic summery: A charisma SAD class which abilities focused on bringing misery and death. I’m hoping to make it equal in power to a PC class, but it would be used mainly for NPCs since its abilities would make it awkward for PCs.

    “When left to rest object rust, and thing beautiful are dulled by the maw of languor. We exist to keep the world on its edge, for only then may it shines in it fullest glory,” Herson Morinton

    “The once great world is marred beyond repair, a dead spec of rotten flesh in the great multiverse. We are here to remove this blasphemy and allow the greater powers to replace it with fresh, clean flesh,” Maria Ragornok

    “People no longer respect their lives, the fortune that shines upon them, the proof of which is their very existence. How can people be so ungrateful to the divine entities, how can they not realiese that the greatest gift will always be with them as long as they walk this Earth? We will help them see, help them understand,” Lorten Jigsaw


    As the three quotes show, the motivation driving Apocolyptese are not always the same, but their actions are: bring destruction and death, the more the better.

    Becoming an Apocalypto: These weird people are born, not made. As they grow up they will develop an affinity for the dead and decaying. They will soon notice dark powers related to these themes immerging. Those who do not kill themselves in shame or seek to cure this “infliction” join the ranks of the Apocalyptese.

    Out look: Apocalyptese will generally have questionable opinions on life and other living thing. Many develop psychotic flaws from a life of constant killing and those who try to prevent their inner need to compromise life will generally commit suicide within days. Disillusionment is best mentality an Apocalypto can hope for.

    Apocalypto
    Hit Die: d8
    BAB: As fighter
    Saves: As monk

    Class Skills
    The apolocolypto’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are
    Bluff (cha), Craft (int), Descipher Script (int), Diplomacy (cha), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (int), Intimidate (cha) Knwoledge (any)(int), Sense motive (wis) and Spellcraft (int)
    Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x4.
    Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.

    Code:
    Table: The Apoclalypso
    Level 	Special
    1st 	Touch of Oblivion, Send Onwards, Live off murder 
    2nd	Your death is near (move action)
    3rd	Death forged blade (1 round/cha mod), Shielded from death
    4th	Aura of death, Die on the inside
    5th	Smite life, Bonus feat (Death forged weapon)
    6th	Your death is near (swift action), Death forged weapon (1 minute/cha mod)
    7th	Maggot Horde, Vast aura (100 ft radios)
    8th	Red water
    9th	Death forged weapon (10 minute/cha mod), Embrace life’s parting gift
    10th	Bonus feat (Death forged weapon)
    11th	Splinter blade
    12th	Death forged weapon (1 hour/cha mod), might of oblivion
    13th	Aura of Sending Onwards
    14th	Touch of pain
    15th	Bonus feat (Death forged weapon)
    16th	Thrust of Death
    17th	Defy death
    18th	Nothing stands before death
    19th	Speed of Oblivion
    20th	Bonus feat (Death forged weapon), My Apocalypse

    Class Features
    All of the following are class features of the apocalypto.
    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: An apocalypto is not proficient with any weapons. They are proficient with light but not medium or heavy armor, and not shields.

    Touch of oblivion (Ex): Whenever an apocalypto uses a touch attack to deliver one of his class abilities, he provokes no attack of opportunity and may ignore the targets deflection bonus to AC.
    They may use this ability in conjunction with improved unarmed strike to add their unarmed attack damage when doing this and still treat it as a touch attack. These touch attacks are considered magic and evil for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
    The ability to use touch attack (and latter death forged weapons) represents a pact with death that you will trust the powers it bestowed on you to. You may use no weapons aside the death forged and your own natural ones. Breaking this unspoken law causes you to loose acess to all touch attack and deathforge weapon abilities granted by this class.


    Send Onwards (Su): “The gates are open, there is no need to hesitate,” At will may use death knell, (DC: 12+apocalypto's cha modifier) only gaining a Cha bonus instead of Str.
    The benefit from multiply uses of this ability do not stack since they come from the same source.

    Live off murder: The apocalypto must kill a number of living things, with at least 2 HP, equal to their charisma modifier per day or loose one wisdom point.
    If wisdom is reduced to 5 or less in this manner the apocalypto goes on a killing rampage using the most effective method available to kill until it has finished off one creature per class level, at which point their lost wisdom is restored.
    There is no other way possible to restore the lost wisdom in any other form, save for a wish spell.

    Your death is near (Ex): “Look into my eyes and see how useless it all is, you will die, and there is no way to cheat fate,” The apocalypto of 2nd level or higher may make intimidation checks to demoralize opponents as a move equivalent action, in which case the opponent is shaken for a number of round equal to the apocalypto's char modifier.
    At level 6, they may do this as a swift action.

    Death forged blade (Ex): “Master of everything, in this world and the next, death lend me your martial skills,” To use this ability, an apocalypto of 3rd level or higher must kill a creature with the use of it's "Send Onwards" ability. It may then forgo the benefits (bonus charisma, hitpioints and caster level) to instead make an exotic melee weapon of their own choice for 1 round per cha modifier.
    This increase to 1 minute per cha modifier at level at level 6, 10 minute per cha mod at level 9 and 1 hour per char mod at level 12.
    They are considered proficient with it and may use it to deliver their touch related class abilities, but must forgo any special abilities of the weapon expect reach to do this. Touch of oblivion still applies for these special touch attacks.
    At level 5 and every 5 level after (10, 15, 20) they gain a bonus feat that applies to any death forged weapon they make. They choose these from the fighter’s bonus list feat.

    Shielded from Death (Ex): "Death does not want my soul... yet," By making a pact with Death at 3rd level, the Apocalypto gains a bonus to saves and a deflection AC bonus equal to his/her Cha Modifier.
    Though the Deflection bonus stacks with Deflection bonuses provided by magical items (such as Rings of Protection), this pact represents complete trust in Death. Thus, the Apocalypto may not wear any armor heavier than light, nor shields, nor any magical items which enhance AC save items like Rings of Protection.

    Aura of Death (Su): “Life will fail you,” Starting at 4th level, an apocalypto is surrounded by a constant 20 ft radios of killing energy. All creatures within it must make a DC 13 fortitude or will save (they may use their higher modifier) or die. They gain a bonus on this throw equal to their maximum hit points. The creature does not fail this save on a natural of a 1 unless it normally would do to not meeting the DC. This ability cannot be suppressed.
    A creature must save against this ability every round. A successful save grants no immunity.
    At level 7 you may increase the radios of this aura to 300ft for a number of rounds equal to your cha modifier x 5.

    Die on the inside (Su): ‘As your body begins to give up the fight so does your soul, making your passing arrive all the sooner,” An apocalypto of 4th level or higher can, at will, use a touch attack to deals 2 point of strength or charisma damage.
    A fort save avoid strength damage, a will save avoid charisma (DC=12+Cha mod).

    Smite life (Ex): “Life shall be severed in half,” Apocalyptese of 5th level and higher gain death points equal to Class level + cha mod x 2. A death point can be spent as a free action to gain +1 to attack or damage (they stack with eachother) when wielding your death weapon or unarmed.
    They may not add more than their class level to either one in any given round. Death points are recharged at midnight.

    Maggot horde (Su): “The maggots will seat the life,” 3/per day a 7th level apocalypto can summon a maggot (centipede from MM) swarm. The swarm appears around him.
    These maggots have the zombie template applied to them. Consequently they are immune to the apocalypto’s Aura of Death. The apocalypto has no control over the swarm, but none of the creatures will harm him. They all die 24 hours after being summoned.

    Red Water (Su): “The waters will swell red as death,” 3/day, an aopcalypto of 8th level or higher can turn a volume of water equal to 10 cubic ft per level per cha modifier into red water.
    Drinking or immersion in this liquid causes 1d4 acid damage and the subject becomes sickened for 1d6 hours (fort save 12+1/2 the apocalypto's cha modifier to avoid the sickened but not the damage).
    Alternately an apocalypto may turn 1 flask of water into a potent poison. This acts like a grenade weapon dealing 4d6 acid damage and forcing subject to make a DC 13 + the apocalypto's cha modifier or become sickened 24 hours. Adjacent targets instead take 1d6 acid damage.
    This ability also drains one of the 3 daily uses.

    Embrace life’s parting gift (Su): “Know your time is limited as your body becomes nothing more than home for others,” An apocalypto of 10th level or higher can, at will, use a touch attack that delivers a non-magical disease of your choice. DC 14 + cha modifier.

    Splinter blade (Su): “Death made this blade and as it breaks so is death released,” As a swift action, an apocalypto of 11th level or higher may force a creature that just took damage from it's death forged weapon to make DC 18 fort or will save (which ever is higher) or die.
    Using this ability effectivly disintergrates the death forged weapon.

    Might of oblivion (Ex): “There is far more to swordsmanship than muscle and reflexes as you are about to see. May your last lesson in life be the most important one,” An apocalypto of 12th level or higher may substitute Cha to hit instead of strength and may add half of their Cha modifier to damage.

    Aura of sending Onwards (Su): “Go, I will meet you there one day” At 13th level, the apocalypto's 1st level ability becomes a 20 ft radios aura that cannot be suppressed.
    This aura makes it much easier for the apocalypto to create a death forged weapon, since they must merely be within 20ft of a creature with negative hitpoint who fails their save.

    Touch of pain (Su): “Learn to respect all aspects of this, for even this sensation will be over soon,” An apocalypto of 14th level or higher can, at will, use a touch attack that renders the target stunned for 1d2 rounds and nauseated for 1d4 round after that. A fortitude save, DC 15+the apocalypto's cha modifier aviods this affect.

    Thrust of death (Ex): “None can evade death forever,” As full round action, an apocalypto of 16th level or higher may make an attack with a +20 bonus that does not fail on a natural roll of 1. This attack automatically bypasses any harness or damage reduction of the target.
    If used in conjunction with a touch ability the DC for the effect is raised by 4. Using this ability shortens the duration of the death forged weapon to 1 round per cha modifier of the apocalypto. If the remaining duration was already less than that, the death forged blade is disintegrated.

    Defy Death (Ex): "You will have to try harder than that to send me to my master," Whenever an apocalypto of 17th level or higher has negative hitpoints but is not yet dead, they immidiatly recover to 10 hitpoints.

    Nothing stands before death (Su): “You think a couple of cheap eldritch tricks will protect you from death? Think again,” An apocalypto of 18th level or higher can use Dispel Magic at will, with a caster level = to ½ his class level.
    Alternatively, by disintegrating their death forged weapon, they may use greater dispel magic with a caster level equal to their class level.

    Speed of oblivion (Su): “I am a loyal servant, but even my days are numbered. Death has given me the ability to serve him as best as possible before he eventually claims me,” An apocalypto of 19th level or higher is under the effect of a constant hast spell.

    My Apocalypse (Su): “Always remember, no matter how powerful you are, death is always right behind you” At the height of their power, a 20th level Apocalypto can, once per week as a full round action, cause some disaster. When they use this ability, they must choose one of the following “natural disasters”:
    Note: Caster level, when relevent = class level. The apocalypto has no control over any creatures summoned or created by these powers, but the creatures never harm him. Neither do any other affects of the power.

    The Earth Awakens: May cast widened earthquake centered on self. Any reflex save made to avoid ill affect of the earthquake take a penalty equal to half the apocalypto’s char modifier.
    In addition, the earth and stone also merge at a random location in the spells area, coming together to form a colossal beast, resembling the tarrasque. This construct has the same statistics as the said beat. It stays for 5 rounds before the magic leaves it and it falls apart.

    Fire Personified: Fire encases an area of 100ft centered on the apocalypto. These super heated flames deal 12d10 fire damage to all those in the area.
    In the second round, the energy mutates, bending towards pure destruction. The flames now deal 9d6 damage. However half the damage is pure destructive energy and ignored fire resistance/immunity.
    In the 3rd round, all the fire has become destructive energy, but the effect has also dispersed somewhat. All creatures in the area take 6d6 damage. At the beginning of the fourth round, the remaining energy of the effect condenses into a number of huge fire elementals equal to the apocalypto’s charisma modifier. These creatures act naturally. They can remain indefinably, but loose 2 hp per round.

    Icy Oblivion: The temperature immediately drops below freezing in a 500ft area. Any creatures in the area take 2d6 cold damage every round. In addition, ice spreads across the area, making all terrain difficult, exept for the apocalypto.
    Every round, creatures must make a DC 15 strength check or become entangled as ice forms over their body. Entangled creatures take an additional 1d6 points of damage and must make a DC 20 strength check to free themselves. A result of 15-19 indicates they remain entangled. A result of 14 or lower and they become pinned as the ice spreads further over their body. The ice has a grappler modifier of +25. Pinned creatures take 5d6 cold damage per round.
    Finally, on the second round 1d3 packs of dire wolves emmerge from the ground. A pack of wolves conissts of a number of creatures equal to the apocalypto's charisma score. These wolves have the fiendish template.
    The icy conditions persist for 24 hours.

    Ravaging of time: A wave of time warping energy spreads out in a 300ft burst centered on the apocalypto. Creatures caught in the blast must make a DC: 14 Fortitude save (does not automatically fail on a roll of 1) or be obliterated as their body’s age 10,000 years in the course of a single second. All mundane objects are similarly affected, usually destroyed. Attended objects can use their bearer’s save.
    Note: Since there are no rules for the affects of age one magical items, they are assumed to be unharmed.
    After the first pulse, a second one follows. Creatures who survived the first one must make another fortitude save with a DC 16+the apocalypto’s charisma modifier or be aged one category.
    Finally, a third pulse of emery ripples throw the area, forcing all creatures to make a will save with a DC 20+the apocalypse’s charisma modifier, or be staggered for 1d6+1 rounds as they comprehend the implication of what just happened, realizing that even if they survive every challenge thrown at them, old age will still claim them and no magic will bring them back then.
    Last edited by Boci; 2008-12-24 at 12:39 PM. Reason: clarifying

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2008

    Default Re: Base Class: Apocalypto

    Oh, and here's the character I ran the guantlet on:

    Loltna:
    Human / Apocalypto 10

    HP: 68 (8+4.5x9+20)
    Init: +2
    AC: 26 (Touch: 22, Flat: 24) (base 10+2 ring of protection+4 armour+2 dex+8 Cha bonus)

    Str: 10
    Con: 12
    Dex: 14 (Base 12+2 enhancement)
    Int: 13
    Wis: 9
    Cha: 26 (Base 18+2 leveling+4 enhancement+2 send onwards)

    Saves: Fort: +18 (Base: 7+8 Cha+1 Con+2 belt of resistance)
    Ref: +19 (Base: 7+8 Cha+2 Dex+2 belt of resistance)
    Will: +16 (Base: 7 + 8 Cha-1 Wis+2 belt of reisstence)

    Feats:
    Human: Improved unarmed strike,
    1st: Improved Toughness,
    3rd: Superior unarmed fighting,
    Apocalypto 5th: Weapon finesse
    6th: Ability focus: Die on the inside,
    9th: Ability Focus: Embrace Life’s parting gift,
    Apocalypto 10th: Combat Expertise,

    Skills: Bluff +21, Intimidate + 21, Diplomacy +21, Knowledge: (nature) + 14, Sense Motive +12


    Gear: Master work chain mail, Cloak of charisma + 4, gloves of dexterity +2, Ring of protection +2, belt of resistance +2, 5 flasks of water, 1 flask of “blood water”

    Abilities: Your death is near (swift action), Die on the inside: DC: 22, Smite life: (160 points), Red water (flask, touch attack 4d6 damage, DC 21 or be sickened), Embrace life’s parting gift: DC 24

    Standard action: Attack with spiked chain (death forged weapon), +12 attack bonus, 10ft reach, 1d8 damage, deliver touch attack, ignore targets deflection bonus to AC
    Last edited by Boci; 2008-12-24 at 08:20 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    SurlySeraph's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
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    Default Re: Base Class: Apocalypto

    First, please put in more line breaks, use full sentences, clean up the typoes, put the abilities in the order they're in on the level progression table, and get rid of the superfluous quotes in front of all of the abilities. It'll make this much easier to understand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    Death forged blade (Ex): “Master of everything, in this world and the next, death lend me your martial skills,” May forgo benefits of Send Onwards to instead make and exotic melee weapon of their own choice for 1 round per cha modifier. This increase to 1 minute per cha modifier at level at level 6, 10 minute per cha mod at level 9 and 1 hour per char mod at level 12. They are considered proficient with it and may use it to deliver their touch related class abilities, but must forgo any special abilities of the weapon expect reach to do this. Touch of oblivion still applies for these special attacks. It is considered magic and evil for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
    At level 5 and every 5 level after (10, 15, 20) they gain a bonus feat that applies to any death forged weapon they make. They choose these from the fighter’s bonus list feat.
    What do you mean "forgo benefits of Send Onwards"? Does the Apocalypto lose their ability to use Send Onwards for the rest of the day if he uses Death Forged Blade? If that's correct, this isn't a great ability; losing a constant ability for a temporary ability is annoying, even if the temporary one is more powerful, especially if the two abilities are completely different. Or do you mean that he can't use Send Onwards while using Death Forged Blade? You need to make this clearer.

    Aura of Death (Su): “Life will fail you,” Constant 20 ft radios, all creatures within it must make a DC 13 fortitude or will save (which ever is higher) or die. They gain a bonus on this throw equal to their hit points. The creature does not fail this save on a natural of a 1 unless it normally would do to not meeting the DC. This ability cannot be suppressed.
    At level 7 you may increase the radios of this aura to 100ft for a number of rounds equal to your cha modifier x 5.
    What do you mean by "Whichever is higher"? Do you mean the target can choose to make a Fortitude or Will save, depending on which save he has a higher modifier for? Also, though this ability doesn't normally kick in until creatures around the Apocalypto (incidently, is it supposed to be "Apocalypto" or "Apocalypso"? Please standardize the spelling) have very low HP, it still means a lot of book-keeping, especially against large numbers of weak enemies like kobolds. You need to specify how often the targets need to save against Aura of Death (once per round or whatever). Since creatures get a bonus on the save equal to their HP, would creatures with negative HP take a penalty? This ability is overpowering at low levels, but becomes irrelevant at high levels when you ususally fight single powerful opponents. Also, this ability is VERY party-unfriendly, but I'm sure you're aware of that.

    Die on the inside (Su): ‘As your body begins to give up the fight so does your soul, making your passing arrive all the sooner,” Touch attack deals 2 point of strength or charisma damage. Fort save to avoid strength damage, will to avoid charisma (DC=12+Cha mod).
    How often can the Apocalypto use this ability? Does it stack with itself?

    Embrace life’s parting gift (Su): “Know your time is limited as your body becomes nothing more than home for others,” Touch attack to deliver non magical disease of your choice. DC 14 + cha modifier.
    How often can the Apocalypto use this ability?

    Splinter blade (Su): “Death made this blade and as it breaks so is death released,” As a swift action may sacrifice Death forged weapon to force creature that just took damage from attack to make DC 18 fort or will save (which ever is higher) or die.
    What do you mean "sacrifice"? Does the Apocalypto give up the remaining amount of time that he could use his Death Forged Blade that day to use this ability? If so, this isn't a very good ability - it makes him lose his most important class feature. Also, see my notes on Death Aura.

    Aura of sending Onwards (Su): “Go, I will meet you there one day” 1st level ability becomes 20 ft radios aura, cannot be suppressed.
    Does the Apocalypto lose this ability when he uses his Death Forged Blade, like with Send Onwards?

    Touch of pain (Su): “Learn to respect all aspects of this, for even this sensation will be over soon,” touch attack to render target stunned for 1d2 rounds and nauseated for 1d4 round after that. DC: 15+cha mod.
    How many times per day can the Apocalypto use this? What save is it - Will, Fortitude, or Reflex?

    Thrust of death (Ex): “None can evade death forever,” As full round action may make an attack with +20 bonus that does not fail on a natural roll of 1. This attack automatically bypasses any harness or damage reduction. If used in conjunction with a touch ability the DC for the effect is raised by 4
    How many times per day is this usable? Because what amounts to an improved version of True Strike at will is fairly powerful, even at level 16.

    Defy Death (Ex): "You will have to try harder than that to send me to my master," When ever an apocalypto has negative hitpoints but is not dead yet, they immidiatly recover to 10 hitpoints.
    Bad idea. This basically means that when an Apocalypto is nearly dead, you must always do 20 or more damage to kill him. While this isn't an insurmountable obstacle at high levels, it is extremelyannoying for whoever's fighting him. Also, you don't say what level he gains this ability at.

    Speed of oblivion (Su): “I am a loyal servant, but my days are numbered. Death has given me the ability to serve him as best as possible before he eventually claims me,” Under effect of constant hast spell.
    Even at level 18, this is very powerful. I'm not saying it's necessarily overpowered, but it's very powerful.

    My Apocalypse (Su): “Always remember, no matter how powerful you are, death is always right behind you” At the height of their power, an Apocalypto can, once per week as a full round action, cause some disaster. When they use this ability, they must choose one of the following “natural disasters”:
    Note: Caster level=class level. The apocalypto has no control over any creatures summoned or created by these powers, but the creatures never harm him. Neither do any other affects of the power.
    It's never a good idea to give a class a complicated, highly powerful ability that they never get a chance to actually use. At 20th level, the campaign is likely to end before the Apocalypto gets to use all of these options. Also, this options are really damn powerful. I mean, "Improved Earthquake And Summon Tarrasque For 5 Rounds"? You also need to make the duration of their effects clearer.

    Icy Oblivion: The temperature immediately drops below freezing in a 500ft area. Any creatures in the area take 2d6 cold damage every round. In addition, ice spreads across the area, making all terrain difficult.
    Every round, creatures must make a DC 15 strength check or become entangled as ice forms over their body. Entangled creatures take an additional 1d6 points of damage and must make a DC 20 strength check to free themselves. A result of 15-19 indicates they remain entangled. A result of 14 or lower and they become pinned as the ice spreads further over their body. The ice has a grappler modifier of +25. Pinned creatures take 5d6 cold damage per round.
    Finally, on the second round 1d3 packs of dire wolves equal to the apocalypses charisma score emerge from the ground. These wolves have the fiendish template.
    How long do the effects last? How many dire wolves are in each pack? And how does the Apocalypto's Charisma score play into this?

    Ravaging of time: The wave of time warping energy spreads out in a 300ft burst centered on the apocalypto. Creatures caught in the blast must make a DC: 14 Fortitude save (does not automatically fail on a roll of 1) or be obliterated as their body’s age 10,000 years in the course of a single second. All mundane objects are similarly affected, usually destroyed. Attended objects and magical objects can use their bearer’s save.
    After the first pulse, a second one follows. Creatures who survived the first one must make another fortitude save DC 16+the apocalypse’s charisma modifier or be aged one category.
    Finally, a third pulse of emery ripples throw the area, forcing all creatures to make a will save DC 20+the apocalypse’s charisma modifier, or be staggered for 1d6+1 rounds as they comprehend the implication of what just happened, realizing that even if they survive every challenge thrown at them, old age will still claim them and no magic will bring them back then.
    So basically "Mass Destruction That You Can't Be True Resurrected From and Mordenkainen's Disjunction"? Though you didn't make it clear whether magical objects are actually affected, given that you said mundane objects are affected but in the next sentence said that magical objects need to save. This is very powerful, even though the save is low.

    I can't even say whether this is balanced or not. It's cluttered and convoluted. Spread the abilities out more (if you insist on keeping all of them - it would be good to get rid of some of them), get rid of the bonus feats (which are completely superfluous given all the special abilities, plus it's unclear how you intend for them to be used), describe everything more clearly and specifically, and post it again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thespianus View Post
    I fail to see how "No, that guy is too fat to be hurt by your fire" would make sense.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    AsuroftheStair's Avatar

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    Nov 2008
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    Default Re: Base Class: Apocalypto

    I agree with much SurlySeraph's post, but I personally have a couple of concerns.
    I'm concerned that the class isn't entertaining enough to play at low levels since they don't any tangible advantage over a fighter for at least levels 1&2, and will just be hacking (or staying at the side if the class doesn't have good AC) until someone dies (probably half-way or later in the fighting)
    • What are they proficient with? I know the essentially loose many proficiencies as they gain level, but playability at lower levels would rely on proficiencies.
    • Live off Murder: Do their wisdom penalties drain away when they succeed in their mass murder? (Maybe this should be moved up in level since 1st level characters can't be too far away from town)
    • Shielded from Death: May be good to spell out that this bonus stacks with other deflection bonuses.
    Last edited by AsuroftheStair; 2008-12-23 at 05:35 PM.
    - Asur of The Final Stair
    Homebrew:
    The Schism

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DrowGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2008

    Default Re: Base Class: Apocalypto

    Quote Originally Posted by SurlySeraph View Post
    First, please put in more line breaks, use full sentences, clean up the typoes, put the abilities in the order they're in on the level progression table,
    Done.

    Quote Originally Posted by SurlySeraph View Post
    and get rid of the superfluous quotes in front of all of the abilities. It'll make this much easier to understand.
    Do I have to?

    Quote Originally Posted by SurlySeraph View Post
    What do you mean "forgo benefits of Send Onwards"? Does the Apocalypto lose their ability to use Send Onwards for the rest of the day if he uses Death Forged Blade? If that's correct, this isn't a great ability; losing a constant ability for a temporary ability is annoying, even if the temporary one is more powerful, especially if the two abilities are completely different. Or do you mean that he can't use Send Onwards while using Death Forged Blade? You need to make this clearer.
    Clarafied. They use Send Onwards to kill a creature and instead of gaining the normal benefits (with are only useful to them once per day) they can make a death forged weapon.

    Quote Originally Posted by SurlySeraph View Post
    What do you mean by "Whichever is higher"? Do you mean the target can choose to make a Fortitude or Will save, depending on which save he has a higher modifier for? Also, though this ability doesn't normally kick in until creatures around the Apocalypto (incidently, is it supposed to be "Apocalypto" or "Apocalypso"? Please standardize the spelling) have very low HP, it still means a lot of book-keeping, especially against large numbers of weak enemies like kobolds. You need to specify how often the targets need to save against Aura of Death (once per round or whatever). Since creatures get a bonus on the save equal to their HP, would creatures with negative HP take a penalty? This ability is overpowering at low levels, but becomes irrelevant at high levels when you ususally fight single powerful opponents. Also, this ability is VERY party-unfriendly, but I'm sure you're aware of that.
    1. It should be Apocalypto, I edited all other spellings.
    2. Edited it, they add their maximum hit points to the save, so it only effects creatures with 12 or lower hitpoints.

    Quote Originally Posted by SurlySeraph View Post
    How often can the Apocalypto use this ability? Does it stack with itself?
    It can be used at will and its damage so it stacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by SurlySeraph View Post
    How often can the Apocalypto use this ability?
    At will.

    Quote Originally Posted by SurlySeraph View Post
    What do you mean "sacrifice"? Does the Apocalypto give up the remaining amount of time that he could use his Death Forged Blade that day to use this ability? If so, this isn't a very good ability - it makes him lose his most important class feature. Also, see my notes on Death Aura.
    Edited. He uses his current death forged blade.

    Quote Originally Posted by SurlySeraph View Post
    Does the Apocalypto lose this ability when he uses his Death Forged Blade, like with Send Onwards?
    Edited, does it make sense now?

    Quote Originally Posted by SurlySeraph View Post
    How many times per day can the Apocalypto use this? What save is it - Will, Fortitude, or Reflex?
    At will. the save is fort.

    Quote Originally Posted by SurlySeraph View Post
    How many times per day is this usable? Because what amounts to an improved version of True Strike at will is fairly powerful, even at level 16.
    Origionally it was at will, and it still is, with a limitation.

    Quote Originally Posted by SurlySeraph View Post
    Bad idea. This basically means that when an Apocalypto is nearly dead, you must always do 20 or more damage to kill him. While this isn't an insurmountable obstacle at high levels, it is extremelyannoying for whoever's fighting him. Also, you don't say what level he gains this ability at.
    This is at 17 level. Is someone can't do 20 damage then, its only their fault.

    Quote Originally Posted by SurlySeraph View Post
    Even at level 18, this is very powerful. I'm not saying it's necessarily overpowered, but it's very powerful.
    Moved to level 19.

    Quote Originally Posted by SurlySeraph View Post
    It's never a good idea to give a class a complicated, highly powerful ability that they never get a chance to actually use. At 20th level, the campaign is likely to end before the Apocalypto gets to use all of these options. Also, this options are really damn powerful. I mean, "Improved Earthquake And Summon Tarrasque For 5 Rounds"? You also need to make the duration of their effects clearer.
    I get your point, but at the same time, I don't know. I'm very attached to this ability. Plus it would be really hard to scale it down.

    Quote Originally Posted by SurlySeraph View Post
    How long do the effects last? How many dire wolves are in each pack? And how does the Apocalypto's Charisma score play into this?
    Clarified: each pack has a number of wolves equal to the apocalypto's charisma modifier, and the ice lasts for 24 hours.

    Quote Originally Posted by SurlySeraph View Post
    So basically "Mass Destruction That You Can't Be True Resurrected From and Mordenkainen's Disjunction"? Though you didn't make it clear whether magical objects are actually affected, given that you said mundane objects are affected but in the next sentence said that magical objects need to save. This is very powerful, even though the save is low.
    Magic objects no longer affect. Anyone who at level 20 who cant make a DC 14 fort save should be long dead, and as for lower level charachters, well higher level abilities generally are effective against them.

    Quote Originally Posted by SurlySeraph View Post
    I can't even say whether this is balanced or not. It's cluttered and convoluted. Spread the abilities out more (if you insist on keeping all of them - it would be good to get rid of some of them), .
    I'm not quite sure how to do this.

    Quote Originally Posted by SurlySeraph View Post
    get rid of the bonus feats (which are completely superfluous given all the special abilities, plus it's unclear how you intend for them to be used),
    How do you mean they are unclear?

    Quote Originally Posted by SurlySeraph View Post
    describe everything more clearly and specifically, and post it again.
    Done.

  6. - Top - End - #6
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    Default Re: Base Class: Apocalypto

    Quote Originally Posted by AsuroftheStair View Post
    I agree with much SurlySeraph's post, but I personally have a couple of concerns.
    I'm concerned that the class isn't entertaining enough to play at low levels since they don't any tangible advantage over a fighter for at least levels 1&2, and will just be hacking (or staying at the side if the class doesn't have good AC) until someone dies (probably half-way or later in the fighting)[/LIST]
    Should I give them slash tongue from book of vile darkness at will at level one?

    Quote Originally Posted by AsuroftheStair View Post
    • What are they proficient with? I know the essentially loose many proficiencies as they gain level, but playability at lower levels would rely on proficiencies.
    They are not proficient with any weapons.

    Quote Originally Posted by AsuroftheStair View Post
    [*]Live off Murder: Do their wisdom penalties drain away when they succeed in their mass murder? (Maybe this should be moved up in level since 1st level characters can't be too far away from town)[/LIST]
    When they've finished their killing rampage they recover their wisdom points. I don't want to move it up because this shows that taking even one level in this class forces you to continaully take lives.

    Quote Originally Posted by AsuroftheStair View Post
    [*]Shielded from Death: May be good to spell out that this bonus stacks with other deflection bonuses.[/LIST]
    Trying to think how to word it.

  7. - Top - End - #7
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    Default Re: Base Class: Apocalypto

    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    Should I give them slash tongue from book of vile darkness at will at level one?
    It doesn't seem enough to me... they are going to give up their ability to use any weapon, save their fists, at 3rd level. Maybe they gain bonus unarmed feats or damage, or that they could gain proficiency with any one weapon (which will become their Death forged weapon) along with a bonus feat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    Trying to think how to word it.
    This is what I thought of: Shielded from Death (Ex): "Death does not want my soul... yet," By making a pact with Death at 3rd level, the Apocalypto gains a bonus to saves and a deflection AC bonus equal to his/her Cha Modifier. Though the Deflection bonus stacks with Deflection bonuses provided by magical items (such as Rings of Protection), this pact represents complete trust in Death. Thus, the Apocalypto may not wear any armor heavier than light, nor shields, nor any magical items which enhance AC save items like Rings of Protection.

    • For Thrust of Death: when you get the ability, the weapon lasts for 16 hours. Decreasing it by a couple of rounds does not really restrain the Apocalypto.
    • I'm a bit torn about My Apocalypse. I feel that these should be rituals that they could do, have some cost (like -1 Constitution Permanently), and/or have the Apocalypto select one type of apocalypse and gain specials surrounding that (like fire subtype and fire damage for weapon). I definitely see the need for a capstone ability, but it's really hard not to say "replace this ability with super-enchantments on the Deathforged Weapon". If I have more thoughts about this ability, I'll post them....
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    Default Re: Base Class: Apocalypto

    Quote Originally Posted by AsuroftheStair View Post
    It doesn't seem enough to me... they are going to give up their ability to use any weapon, save their fists, at 3rd level. Maybe they gain bonus unarmed feats or damage, or that they could gain proficiency with any one weapon (which will become their Death forged weapon) along with a bonus feat?
    I'll need think about that. Remeber they are using unarmed strikes as touch attacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by AsuroftheStair View Post
    This is what I thought of: Shielded from Death (Ex): "Death does not want my soul... yet," By making a pact with Death at 3rd level, the Apocalypto gains a bonus to saves and a deflection AC bonus equal to his/her Cha Modifier. Though the Deflection bonus stacks with Deflection bonuses provided by magical items (such as Rings of Protection), this pact represents complete trust in Death. Thus, the Apocalypto may not wear any armor heavier than light, nor shields, nor any magical items which enhance AC save items like Rings of Protection.
    Yoink.

    Quote Originally Posted by AsuroftheStair View Post
    • For Thrust of Death: when you get the ability, the weapon lasts for 16 hours. Decreasing it by a couple of rounds does not really restrain the Apocalypto.
    • Using this ability shortens the duration of the death forged weapon to 1 round per cha modifier of the apocalypto.

      Quote Originally Posted by AsuroftheStair View Post
    • I'm a bit torn about My Apocalypse. I feel that these should be rituals that they could do, have some cost (like -1 Constitution Permanently), and/or have the Apocalypto select one type of apocalypse and gain specials surrounding that (like fire subtype and fire damage for weapon). I definitely see the need for a capstone ability, but it's really hard not to say "replace this ability with super-enchantments on the Deathforged Weapon". If I have more thoughts about this ability, I'll post them....
  9. Okay, I'll see what you can come up with.

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