Critical Improvement

[Eloel]

I know of the Improved Critical feat, that doubles the crit range, which doesn't stack with the Keen ability for the weapon, which also doubles the same range. Is there anything else that improves crit-range of weapons, or the crit modifier?

[esorscher]

There's a Druid Spell, Spikes (3rd Level). It can only be cast on bludgeoning weapons, lasts for hrs/ level, gains +2 Enhancement bonus to hit, +1/level to damage, crit range doubled. Deals bludgeoning or piercing damage.

[Eloel]

There's a Druid Spell, Spikes (3rd Level). It can only be cast on bludgeoning weapons, lasts for hrs/ level, gains +2 Enhancement bonus to hit, +1/level to damage, crit range doubled. Deals bludgeoning or piercing damage.

Mind giving the source to it?

[bosssmiley]

Mind giving the source to it?

Complete Divine, the CoDzilla Bumper Fun Book.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

there was a PrC Weapon Master in Sword and Fist that had crit multipliers that stacked... I think in Complete Psionic there was Psionic Weapon Master which did something similar.

Best way is to start off with something that already has a high crit chance. Try duo-wielding Kukri (18-20) then Improved Critical (Kukri) for a 25% chance of a crit, as a Swordsage focusing in Tiger Claw, then take Bloodclaw Master, and keep Blood In The Water stance up. With xing Mongoose boost, you've got so many attacks per round you almost cannot help but crit at least once a round.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Disciple of Dispater from BoVD increases your threat range twice as per Keen, which specifically stacks with Improved Critical. It's technically 3.0, but according to WotC if it hasn't been reprinted or updated it doesn't need any changes to be playable in 3.5. That can get a 18-20 weapon down to 9-20.

Psychic Weapon Master can reduce your threat range by two more points if you have Improved Critical. That brings you down to 7-20 with DoD, if you can fit both classes into one pre-epic build.

Combine it with the Aptitude weapon property and the Lightning Maces and Roundabout Kick feats along with Blood in the Water stance for truckloads of extra attacks. You'll actually run out of opponents before you run out of attacks.

[sonofzeal]

Psionic Weapons Master PrC

Tiger Claw legacy weapon

[Eloel]

Druid 5, DoD 8, PWM 7 can get it down to 4-20 if I'm correct. Now, anything to increase crit modifier?
x2 from Keen
x3 from DoD
x2 from Spikes
For a total of x5, 18-20 weapon has 3 range, so a 15 range now.
+2 from PWM
17 range.
1 is an auto-miss anyway.
So, I get 5% miss, 10% normal hit, 85% crit. Nice :)

A scythe would benefit in a different, wicked way.
x5 from the multipliers, 16-20/x4
+2 from PWM, 14-20/x4
That's more than any x2 weapon could get, as it adds 3x the damage at 7 rolls, opposed to 1x at 17 rolls.
Assuming you roll one of each dice in a row, with one you get
0+1+1+2+2 + 2+2+2+2+2 + 2+2+2+2+2 + 2+2+2+2+2 = 36 times the damage
other
0+1+1+1+1 + 1+1+1+1+1 + 1+1+1+1+4 + 4+4+4+4+4 = 37 times the damage

Using Increased Multiplier from PWM complicates things a bit more.
0+1+1+3+3 + 3+3+3+3+3 + 3+3+3+3+3 + 3+3+3+3+3 = 53, pure win
0+1+1+1+1 + 1+1+1+1+1 + 1+1+1+1+5 + 5+5+5+5+5 = 43, still powerful

Only if there was some way to get Inc. Multiplier to be limitless :)

[Glimbur]

How were you planning on using Disciple of Dispater, whose ability only works on iron or steel weapons, and Brambles, which only works on wooden weapons?

[Iku Rex]

Spikes does not stack with other effects that increase threat range.

3.5 Improved Critical explicitly states that it "doesn’t stack with any other effect that expands the threat range of a weapon". The Keen weapon enhancement has the same rule. The keen edge spell even contains a more general rule for 3.5: "Multiple effects that increase a weapon’s threat range (such as the keen edge spell and the Improved Critical feat) don’t stack."


All this makes the disciple of Dispater's Iron Power ability highly questionable in 3.5. It does say that it stacks with Improved Critical (but not keen), but that's just the 3.0 rule repeated.

[Illven]

Disciple of Dispater from BoVD increases your threat range twice as per Keen, which specifically stacks with Improved Critical. It's technically 3.0, but according to WotC if it hasn't been reprinted or updated it doesn't need any changes to be playable in 3.5. That can get a 18-20 weapon down to 9-20.

Psychic Weapon Master can reduce your threat range by two more points if you have Improved Critical. That brings you down to 7-20 with DoD, if you can fit both classes into one pre-epic build.

Combine it with the Aptitude weapon property and the Lightning Maces and Roundabout Kick feats along with Blood in the Water stance for truckloads of extra attacks. You'll actually run out of opponents before you run out of attacks.

Even if you can get the Discple of dispater and Improved crtical to stack it would be 12-20 since x2+x2 =x3 not x4 and 18-20 x3 is 12x20

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Even if you can get the Discple of dispater and Improved crtical to stack it would be 12-20 since x2+x2 =x3 not x4 and 18-20 x3 is 12x20

Disciple of Dispater gets it twice, x2+x2+x2=x4.

[John Campbell]

3.0 rules that allow them to stack should be overruled by 3.5 rules that say they don't.

For actually legal methods, Victor's Luck and Better Lucky Than Good from Complete Scoundrel. Natural 1s count as natural 20s (both auto-hit and crit threat), and you can re-roll crit confirmations.

[Eloel]

Even if you can get the Discple of dispater and Improved crtical to stack it would be 12-20 since x2+x2 =x3 not x4 and 18-20 x3 is 12x20

DoD SAYS it stacks with Imp Crit. DoD also adds x3, not x2, x3+x2 = x4

3.0 rules that allow them to stack should be overruled by 3.5 rules that say they don't.

For actually legal methods, Victor's Luck and Better Lucky Than Good from Complete Scoundrel. Natural 1s count as natural 20s (both auto-hit and crit threat), and you can re-roll crit confirmations.

Does that actually double Vorpal's range?
Also, the one that lets you reroll could be replaced with 1-2 Power Criticals. More sureshooting.

[John Campbell]

DoD SAYS it stacks with Imp Crit. DoD also adds x3, not x2, x3+x2 = x4

DoD said it stacked with Improved Crit in 3.0. The rules have changed; 3.5 rules take precedence, and 3.5 rules say Improved Crit doesn't stack with anything.

Does that actually double Vorpal's range?

I believe so. (I'm away from books for the holidays, so I can't check to make sure.) It basically turns natural 1s into natural 20s, and I think all the normal results of a natural 20 apply. That'd presumably include triggering vorpal. Limited uses per day, but if you qualify for the feat in the first place, you'll get at least three, which is probably more than you'll roll 1s in a day.

Also, the one that lets you reroll could be replaced with 1-2 Power Criticals. More sureshooting.

The one that turns 1s into 20s requires two other luck feats as prerequisites, so if you're building a crit-monster, you might as well have one of them be the one that lets you reroll crit confirmations.

[ForzaFiori]

DoD said it stacked with Improved Crit in 3.0. The rules have changed; 3.5 rules take precedence, and 3.5 rules say Improved Crit doesn't stack with anything.

But doesn't RAW say that a specific rule in a class/feat/skill/spell/what have you trumps overall rules? IE, general rule is no disarming from ranged combat. However, there is a feat that says you can do that. Is the feat wrong? No, it simply overrides the general ruling. Wouldn't DoD fall under the same thing?

[John Campbell]

The thing is, DoD isn't part of the 3.5 rules at all. It's 3.0 material, some of which can be used in 3.5 because it's sorta kinda compatible. But when the old edition contradicts the new edition, the new edition wins. That's what having a new edition means.

There's some room to debate whether an exception is actually a contradiction, but given how rigorous 3.5 is about preventing anything to do with crit enhancement from stacking, I think it's pretty clear-cut case.

[Curmudgeon]

It's technically 3.0, but according to WotC if it hasn't been reprinted or updated it doesn't need any changes to be playable in 3.5.

You're misstating the case. Page 4 of the 3.5 DMG says:

This is an upgrade of the d20 System, not a new edition of the game. This revision is compatible with all existing products, and those products can be used with the revision with only minor adjustments.

It's entirely up to your DM -- not you -- what "minor adjustments" are required for the Disciple of Dispater PrC. You don't get to decide this. It seems quite reasonable to adjust this prestige class to limit its critical threat range expansion to match other 3.5 revisions as a "minor adjustment".

[Kaiyanwang]

It seems quite reasonable to adjust this prestige class to limit its critical threat range expansion to match other 3.5 revisions as a "minor adjustment".

This. Anything else is useless DM taunting (or a killer DM).