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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default [d20r, Skills] Skill Sets

    Upon taking the first level of a class, the player chooses a number of "skill sets" for that class. This skill set determines the class skills for the class and cannot be changed at a later time.

    All classes treat the Profession and Craft skills as a class skills, regardless of skill sets.

    A character who receives a skill from more than one skill set (or as a bonus skill from their class) receives a +1 synergy bonus for each skill set beyond the first that provides that skill.

    For instance, a character who selects the Adventurer, Athlete, and Explorer skill sets will have the following set of class skills: Acrobatics, Athletics, Awareness, Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Gather Information, Handle Animal, Heal, Intimidate, Knowledge (Dungeoneering, Geography, History, Nature), Perform, Profession, Ride, Search, Sense Motive, Speak Language, Survival.

    He will also get synergy bonuses to the following skills: Athletics (+1), Awareness (+2), Handle Animal (+1), Heal (+1), Ride (+1), Survival (+1)

    Skill Sets
    Adventurer
    Athletics, Awareness, Gather Information, Heal, Intimidate, Knowledge (Dungeoneering, History), Sense Motive, Survival

    Artist
    Concentration, Craft, Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering, History, Local), Perform, Profession

    Athlete
    Acrobatics, Athletics, Awareness, Concentration, Handle Animal, Perform, Ride

    Bard
    Bluff, Concentration, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Knowledge (Local, History, Nobility and Royalty), Perform, Spellcraft

    Bodyguard
    Awareness, Diplomacy, Disguise, Gather Information, Intimidate, Knowledge (Local), Sense Motive, Stealth

    Diplomat
    Bluff, Concentration, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Knowledge (Local, Nobility and Royalty), Sense Motive, Speak Language

    Druid
    Concentration, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (Nature), Ride, Spellcraft, Stealth, Survival

    Explorer
    Awareness, Decipher Script, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (Geography, Nature), Ride, Search, Speak Language, Survival

    Guard
    Awareness, Concentration, Gather Information, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Knowledge (Local), Ride, Sense Motive

    Lawman
    Awareness, Concentration, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Knowledge (Local), Search, Sense Motive

    Mage
    Concentration, Knowledge (Arcana, The Planes), Spellcraft, Use Magic Device

    Merchant
    Appraise, Bluff, Decipher Script, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering, Local), Profession, Speak Language, Spellcraft

    Psion
    Autohypnosis, Concentration, Knowledge (Psionics), Psicraft, Use Psionic Device

    Priest
    Concentration, Decipher Script, Diplomacy, Heal, Knowledge (Religion, The Planes), Sense Motive, Spellcraft

    Sage
    Appraise, Cartomancy, Decipher Script, Gather Information, Knowledge (All), Speak Language, Spellcraft

    Socialite
    Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Knowledge (Local), Perform, Sense Motive, Speak Language

    Spy
    Awareness, Decipher Script, Disable Device, Disguise, Gather Information, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty), Legerdemain, Search, Stealth

    Thief
    Appraise, Bluff, Concentration, Disable Device, Disguise, Legerdemain, Search, Stealth, Use Magic Device

    Tinker
    Appraise, Concentration, Craft, Disable Device, Knowledge (Arcana, Architecture and Engineering), Spellcraft, Use Magic Device

    Trapper
    Acrobatics, Awareness, Concentration, Craft, Disable Device, Disguise, Knowledge (Nature), Legerdemain, Search, Survival
    Last edited by Fax Celestis; 2008-12-26 at 04:57 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: [d20r, Skills] Skill Sets

    interesting idea, so you could even have a fighter who is basd on survival and such things by skills alone.
    kono watashi chigiri motte kaihou chuushin to kaihou omoi
    -The Tengu of Water, Yawata Saburou Tadamori


    stolen from fawsto, and he stole it from someone else.

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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: [d20r, Skills] Skill Sets

    Quote Originally Posted by WaterTengu View Post
    interesting idea, so you could even have a fighter who is basd on survival and such things by skills alone.
    Exactly. It makes for more flexibility within classes while still providing a limiting factor on skill selection.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Skills] Skill Sets

    fun, will their still be certain things that a class can not take/has to take, such as a druid taking druid skill sets.
    kono watashi chigiri motte kaihou chuushin to kaihou omoi
    -The Tengu of Water, Yawata Saburou Tadamori


    stolen from fawsto, and he stole it from someone else.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Skills] Skill Sets

    I'd go one step further and allow, say, any one (or maybe two) skill(s) from your set to be swapped out with one (or two) from a different set, as an option to further customize.

    So, for example, a Cartomancer with the Socialite set, who could still have Cartomancy and Spellcraft - WAIT!


    What about giving each class two (or so) automatic Class skills, then you let them select a skill set on top of those. Any Class Skills that overlap get a +1 unnamed bonus. This has the side effect of subtly encouraging you to select a set that matches the archetype of the class, while simultaneously not unduly penalizing you if you want to explore something else. I like it!
    Last edited by UserClone; 2008-12-26 at 02:51 PM.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Skills] Skill Sets

    Quote Originally Posted by FlWiPig View Post
    I'd go one step further and allow, say, any one (or maybe two) skill(s) from your set to be swapped out with one (or two) from a different set, as an option to further customize.

    So, for example, a Cartomancer with the Socialite set, who could still have Cartomancy and Spellcraft - WAIT!


    What about giving each class two (or so) automatic Class skills, then you let them select a skill set on top of those. Any Class Skills that overlap get a +1 unnamed bonus. This has the side effect of subtly encouraging you to select a set that matches the archetype of the class, while simultaneously not unduly penalizing you if you want to explore something else. I like it!
    That's kinda how I'm doing it now. See:

    Quote Originally Posted by d20r Rogue
    Skills: A rogue chooses four skill sets. 8 + Int skill points per level, x4 at first level.
    The cartomancer has a statement in theirs saying they always treat cartomancy as a class skill.

    But I hadn't considered overlap. Perhaps a +1 synergy (?) bonus for overlapping skills from separate sets?

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    Default Re: [d20r, Skills] Skill Sets

    Absolutely, if the goal is, as I stated above, to slightly encourage synergistic/archetypal skills, without stepping on the toes of the player who wants the character with unusual skills for a given class.
    Last edited by UserClone; 2008-12-26 at 03:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BRC
    Railroading isn't saying "There is a wall there", Railroading is when you say "There is a wall everywhere BUT there"


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    Default Re: [d20r, Skills] Skill Sets

    Quote Originally Posted by FlWiPig View Post
    I'd go one step further and allow, say, any one (or maybe two) skill(s) from your set to be swapped out with one (or two) from a different set, as an option to further customize.

    So, for example, a Cartomancer with the Socialite set, who could still have Cartomancy and Spellcraft - WAIT!


    What about giving each class two (or so) automatic Class skills, then you let them select a skill set on top of those. Any Class Skills that overlap get a +1 unnamed bonus. This has the side effect of subtly encouraging you to select a set that matches the archetype of the class, while simultaneously not unduly penalizing you if you want to explore something else. I like it!
    Ironically that would end up looking much like the 4e skill system.

    Still a good idea.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Skills] Skill Sets

    Well, that makes sense, and I actually thought that same thing as I was typing that post, strangely enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BRC
    Railroading isn't saying "There is a wall there", Railroading is when you say "There is a wall everywhere BUT there"


  10. - Top - End - #10
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    Default Re: [d20r, Skills] Skill Sets

    Synergy bonus and example added. May add more skill sets soon.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Skills] Skill Sets

    What about Craft? All the base classes have it, IIRC...

    Sheesh, if only it was this easy to get WoTC to listen to reasonable suggestions.

    (Seriously Fax, great idea. It's another winner)
    Last edited by UserClone; 2008-12-26 at 03:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BRC
    Railroading isn't saying "There is a wall there", Railroading is when you say "There is a wall everywhere BUT there"


  12. - Top - End - #12
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    Default Re: [d20r, Skills] Skill Sets

    Quote Originally Posted by FlWiPig View Post
    What about Craft? All the base classes have it, IIRC...

    Sheesh, if only it was this easy to get WoTC to listen to reasonable suggestions.

    (Seriously Fax, great idea. It's another winner)
    Hmm... Yeah, okay, I'll group Craft in with Profession as a "universal skill". Also added Psion skill set.
    Last edited by Fax Celestis; 2008-12-26 at 03:43 PM.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Skills] Skill Sets

    Do you plan to include any obscure and/or outdated skills such as Iaijutsu Focus, Truenaming (fixed, of course), or Martial Lore, or would they fall under the "supplemental" material?
    Last edited by UserClone; 2008-12-26 at 03:47 PM.

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  14. - Top - End - #14
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    Default Re: [d20r, Skills] Skill Sets

    Quote Originally Posted by FlWiPig View Post
    Do you plan to include any obscure and/or outdated skills such as Iaijutsu Focus, Truenaming (fixed, of course), or Martial Lore, or would they fall under the "supplemental" material?
    They'd fall under "Non-OGL" material, and as such I'm not touching them. Also, added Tinker and Bodyguard.
    Last edited by Fax Celestis; 2008-12-26 at 03:49 PM.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Skills] Skill Sets

    I don't play 3.Xe, but since this is supposed to sorta be the middle ground between 4e and 3e, I figured I might be able to lend a hand (plus, I'm bored )

    Does this work?

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    Default Re: [d20r, Skills] Skill Sets

    Yes it does. *adds*

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    Default Re: [d20r, Skills] Skill Sets

    How about each character class gets half the number of skill sets that the class currently grants class skills (i.e., 2 sets for a Druid, 1 set for a Wizard, 4 for a Rogue)

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    Default Re: [d20r, Skills] Skill Sets

    Quote Originally Posted by FlWiPig View Post
    How about each character class gets half the number of skill sets that the class currently grants class skills (i.e., 2 sets for a Druid, 1 set for a Wizard, 4 for a Rogue)
    The classes actually state how many they get, though that's pretty much the general rule I'm using.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Skills] Skill Sets

    very cool. *thumbs up*

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    Default Re: [d20r, Skills] Skill Sets

    I thought of another one!

    Lawbringer
    Awareness, Concentration, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Knowledge (Local), Search, Sense Motive, Spot

    This would be Policemen (i.e. Purple Dragon Knights in FR's Cormyr) or perhaps a character who was a vigilante, or who helped the local authorities maintain the law.
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    Default Re: [d20r, Skills] Skill Sets

    I love it, I always disliked the limitation on skill sets, this definitely adds some more selection to the mix.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Skills] Skill Sets

    Here comes another!

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    Awareness, Acrobatics, Athletics, Concentration, Intimidate, Knowledge (Local), Gather Information, Survival
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    Default Re: [d20r, Skills] Skill Sets

    Ooh, like weapon groups, but for skills. Me likey.

    Come to think of it, the whole basic idea of a bunch of related abilities being packaged together seems like a good concept in general. You could probably do something similar with magic.

    That's actually how clerics worked in AD&D, with spell spheres, right? Why the hell did they narrow that down to domains, and give every cleric that weird bag of healing, blessings, curses, buffs, and utility spells that often isn't thematically appropriate to the cleric and deity in question? (It's not inherently nonsensical, but it's a bit overpowering and a bit bland.)

    You could group together related combat style abilities, too. Like the Ranger's options, but maybe more flexible?

    Anyway, something to think about.
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    Default Re: [d20r, Skills] Skill Sets

    I second the Weapon Groups and spell spheres-esque grouping of spells, as well, FWIW. Good job on the skills so far, IMO.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Skills] Skill Sets

    I love the skill sets system, incomplete though it is (I'm referring to the description of the skills that are meant to replace core skills). I'm dying to create a character based on the Luckthief/Tarot Trickster class made by you and Lord_Gareth respectively, but I'd like to use core skills while still adapting the skill sets system. What is the conversion between your new skills and the old skill system, if I might ask?

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    Default Re: [d20r, Skills] Skill Sets

    Quote Originally Posted by Pramxnim View Post
    I love the skill sets system, incomplete though it is (I'm referring to the description of the skills that are meant to replace core skills). I'm dying to create a character based on the Luckthief/Tarot Trickster class made by you and Lord_Gareth respectively, but I'd like to use core skills while still adapting the skill sets system. What is the conversion between your new skills and the old skill system, if I might ask?
    Check the conversion basis here. I've not done an official write-up yet on what skills do what, but it's pretty simple to figure out.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Skills] Skill Sets

    This is remarkable and bookmarked.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Skills] Skill Sets

    Were you going to have some sort of Investing for skills as well? I seem to remember such, but haven't seen anything on it yet.
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    Default Re: [d20r, Skills] Skill Sets

    I just had a very similar idea this morning, of course also calling it Skill Sets. I like the ideas you have here, but you are moving in other directions with it than I will when I get to my implementation. So, if you see me come out with my own Skill Sets thread now you know that I'm not trying to copy you.

    Anyway, I like what I see here. Skill flexibility is always a plus in my book, and the way that you've come up with to add synergy bonuses is a great one.

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    Default Re: [d20r, Skills] Skill Sets

    One question, when a character levels up, he/she still gains skill points right? So she/he simply improves the skills that are within the skill set. Right?

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