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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    asphen fox's Avatar

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    Default [4e] Need help on my build

    I was able to get my hands on a couple of 4e books and since I'm gonna be joining a 4e campaign in a few days, thought I should ask for opinions, guides and tactics of the most damaging build you can make at 1st level without sacrificing the character's defenses. This is mainly to pester this callous DM who has absolutely no idea how horrible a DM he is no matter how many times we say and how bluntly we put it.

    *note: An experienced DM warned him on how broken classes can get and he didn't listen; I was able to end one of his campaigns by killing the "main antagonist" at the very first session with the crusader/cleric infinite attack combo thing.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: [4e] Need help on my build

    Best damage dealer for core 4e(IMHO) is the twin weapon ranger, go with halfling so you get the +2 dex/+2 cha which would help with your will defence.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Limos's Avatar

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    Default Re: [4e] Need help on my build

    Quote Originally Posted by Jera View Post
    Best damage dealer for core 4e(IMHO) is the twin weapon ranger, go with halfling so you get the +2 dex/+2 cha which would help with your will defence.
    You just want him to be Belkar, don't you?

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    Troll in the Playground
     
    Yakk's Avatar

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    Default Re: [4e] Need help on my build

    Are you going to ignore erratas or not? Minotaurs, for example, had their "oversized" property removed.

    Generally, if you want high damage, go Ranger or Rogue. Ranger's twin strike is too good, and Rogue's sneak attack is quite good.

    Rangers want to boost their "per hit" damage -- weapon focus, exotic weapons, etc -- to leverage their multiple attacks per round.

    Rogues want to boost their accuracy first (so nimble blade is a must-buy, and the vs reflex at-will is $$$) to leverage their sneak attack damage.

    Get an 18 in your primary attack stat (16+2 racial), and ... go from there.

    Daggers are good for Rogues, and Bastard Swords are good for Rangers.
    Last edited by Yakk; 2008-12-30 at 06:46 PM.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: [4e] Need help on my build

    Build a two weapon ranger. put at least an 18 in str. Be a dragonborn. Choose anything except fire for energy type. Choose Twin strike for an at-will. Encounter: Two-Fanged Strike. Daily: Sudden Strike or Hunter's Bear Trap. Take Lethal Hunter as 1st level feat. Make sure you always choose a quarry.


    If you nova with daily's and action points, you can do super damage. And twin strike is slightly broken, especially with hunter's quarry.(both attacks hit, this at-will does 3d8 with longswords)

    Nova: Minor action: Dragon breath(2d6+con)
    Minor action: Designate quarry
    Standard action: Sudden Strike(4d8 + str)
    Action Point: Two-fanged Strike(2d8 + str)

    That's alot of damage for Lvl 1!
    My girlfriend(non-gamer) after watching me play an RPG on the Xbox: "So, you're just killing people and taking their stuff?"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pharaoh's Fist View Post
    "You weak minded fools! If you had the strength of will to look past his illusionary fire, you would see that - OH GOD, IT BURNS! IT BURNS EVEN HOTTER THAN THE REAL THING!"

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: [4e] Need help on my build

    Quote Originally Posted by Limos View Post
    You just want him to be Belkar, don't you?
    Nope, my favorite race is the Halfling(im currently playing a halfling wizard) so I suggest that to everyone.

    Besides the +2 CHA does actually help him get bigger NADs.
    Last edited by Jera; 2008-12-30 at 06:56 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Yakk's Avatar

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    Default Re: [4e] Need help on my build

    Quote Originally Posted by Saintjebus View Post
    Build a two weapon ranger. put at least an 18 in str. Be a dragonborn. Choose anything except fire for energy type. Choose Twin strike for an at-will. Encounter: Two-Fanged Strike. Daily: Sudden Strike or Hunter's Bear Trap. Take Lethal Hunter as 1st level feat. Make sure you always choose a quarry.
    Lethal Hunter is mostly crap. It adds +1 damage on average (+2 on crits) on a per-round that you get a hit basis.

    Weapon Focus adds +1 per hit, and Rangers attack multiple times per round.

    Even better, SWP: Bastard Sword adds +1 per [W] (+2 on crits) over Longswords.

    If you nova with daily's and action points, you can do super damage. And twin strike is slightly broken, especially with hunter's quarry.(both attacks hit, this at-will does 3d8 with longswords)
    Or, 2d10+1d6 with Bastard Swords and no Lethal Hunter -- 14.5 on average, instead of 13.5, with the same feat cost.

    Nova damage ... well, it is cute. But often it won't drop a target. Think about saving action points for when you miss with your first attack.

    Nova: Minor action: Dragon breath(2d6+con)
    Minor action: Designate quarry
    Standard action: Sudden Strike(4d8 + str)
    Action Point: Two-fanged Strike(2d8 + str)
    Note that the above requires you to be immobile and next to your target. Which means you probably had the target Quarried last round. :)

    In any case, swapping Lethal Hunter for EWP: Bastard Sword ups this to:
    3d6+ 5d10+ con or an average of 38+con
    instead of
    2d6+ 6d8+con or an average of 34+con

    Similarly, weapon focus would add an average of +3 damage in the above case, while Lethal Hunter only adds +1 on average.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Titan in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: [4e] Need help on my build

    Quote Originally Posted by Jera View Post
    Nope, my favorite race is the Halfling(im currently playing a halfling wizard) so I suggest that to everyone.
    Halflings are fine... but not for Rangers. Rangers prefer to use three things that Halflings tend to lack: Wisdom (augments some powers, preferred source of Will defense...), Strength (for TWF Rangers, at least), and larger weapons (long/great bows for archer Rangers, versatile weapons for TWF Rangers). Halflings have neither Strength nor Wisdom for their stat bonus, and they can't use larger weapons (battleaxes, longswords, and bastard swords are all 2-handed weapons for halflings, but are the favored weapons for TWF Rangers).

    Regardless of your class (except for Wizard), Dragonborn has at least one of the class's recommended stats... both secondary stats for Rogues, both primary stats for Paladins, one of the primaries for Warlocks, Fighters, and Rangers, and both a primary and a secondary for Clerics and Warlords. (They also make somewhat-competent Swordmages: Shielding for focusing on Breath, Assault for the racial stat boost... since Swordmages get no benefit from either Charisma or Wisdom, you might as well focus on Charisma for Will defense...)

    Other good all-round races are Human (feats, adaptable stat boost), Dwarf, and Half-Elf (latter two for Constitution, which is still the only HP-deriving stat). Elves are good Martial Strikers for their high dexterity and once-per encounter reroll for attacks.

    If you're looking for massive damage without sacrificing defense, use Legolas an Elvish ranged Ranger. If you have access to the Adventurer's Vault, get Greatbow proficiency somewhere along the line, take Lethal Hunter, and Weapon Focus: Bow. Wear Hide armor, and boost your Dex into the stratosphere. Stand right next to the guy that the Defender's marked (preferably in a flanking position... using both Combat Advantage and Prime Shot increases your chances of hitting the opponent), and use Twin Strike to fire multiple arrows. You'll provoke an opportunity attack (which the defender might counter with his mark's effect), but your Defensive Mobility and the Defender's Mark should help with that.
    Last edited by Mando Knight; 2008-12-30 at 07:31 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: [4e] Need help on my build

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    Nova damage ... well, it is cute. But often it won't drop a target. Think about saving action points for when you miss with your first attack.
    .
    I must respectfully disagree with this. Having seen both uses of action points(reacting to a miss vs. proactively adding to a successful attack), using action point proactively always results in better combos than reactively using them.



    You are right about the other things, though. I didn't think about that feat.
    Last edited by Saintjebus; 2008-12-30 at 07:26 PM.
    My girlfriend(non-gamer) after watching me play an RPG on the Xbox: "So, you're just killing people and taking their stuff?"
    Me-.....Right!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pharaoh's Fist View Post
    "You weak minded fools! If you had the strength of will to look past his illusionary fire, you would see that - OH GOD, IT BURNS! IT BURNS EVEN HOTTER THAN THE REAL THING!"

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Yakk's Avatar

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    Default Re: [4e] Need help on my build

    The goal of the "recovery of a miss" is that you can get an extra chance to deal HQ damage. Hitting more than once on the same target as a striker doesn't increase your HQ damage...

    The downside is, of course, that you cannot predict when you miss.

    Generally, use the AP when you need it ... but if you "almost" need it, and you missed, think about using it in order to deliver more HQ damage.

    This goes heavier for Rogues, esp before they get the garrot - kill combo.

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    Shadow_Elf's Avatar

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    Default Re: [4e] Need help on my build

    Do you have Martial Power available? There are SO many multiclass combos available from that. Also, if you have an AV handy, Triple Headed Flail is identical to bastard sword, but the visual is WAY cooler .
    Also, you can take Two Weapon Fighting (since it doesn't make you sacrifice Prime Shot) and then spend a feat to dual-wield Tratynyrs. You can then go melee and ranged easily, and get Strength to all attacks, so no MAD.
    Another alternative is to play a rogue with a billion daggers. Keep them up sleeves, in pockets, at your belt, everywhere. Then take Quick Draw and start killing things (if you go this route, max Stealth and Bluff - both great non-flanking ways to get CA in a pinch).
    Later on, if you pick up Hide in Plain Sight, you can Bluff to create a distraction, run away, then HiPS. Then you can whip daggers at enemies all day long, and they still can't see you.
    My Homebrew
    Currently DMing: Heroes on a Sea of Swords - IC - OOC - OOC II - OOC III
    Many thanks to the very talented Kymme for making an Avatar of my incredibly-specific D&D character!

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    The Mormegil's Avatar

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    Default Re: [4e] Need help on my build

    How much do you expect to level up? I expect not that much, so...
    Go rogue at level 1. It is the most damaging build (I repeat, at level 1).

    This is because you actually have only one attack per round, but since static modifiers are not that high yet you can benefit a lot from Sneak Attack, Brutal Scoundrel and even Sly Flourish (if you have the Cha, Reflex defense is quite as high as AC in the first few levels). If you can get a MM race, go Bugbear. Oversized, +2 Dex and Str. Perfect.

    Oh, and one thing: it is easy to get Combat Advantage, if you are clever. And remember: a round spent moving to get into position isn't a wasted round, it's a great way to ensure quicker death to your opponents, and less harm to you. Go in and out, in and out.

    Build:
    Bugbear Rogue (Brutal Scoundrel)
    Str 16
    Con 13
    Dex 18
    Int 8
    Wis 10
    Cha 14
    Feat: Nimble Blade
    At-will: Piercing Strike +8 vs Ref - 1d6 + 4 [With CA: +11 vs Ref - 3d6 + 7]
    Sly Flourish +8 vs AC - 1d6 + 6 [With CA: +11 vs AC - 3d6 + 9]

    AC: 16 (+2 leather +4 Dex)
    For: 13 (+3 Str)
    Ref: 16 (+2 class +4 Dex)
    Will: 12 (+2 Cha)

    Enc: Dazing Strike
    Daily: Easy Target




    Do not worry about For and Will: not many enemies will target those defenses. And when they do... you run towards them and kill them.
    Useless arcane powers are better than no arcane powers!

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  13. - Top - End - #13
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    asphen fox's Avatar

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    Default Re: [4e] Need help on my build

    Well... Fortunately, I have both AV and MP so I can use them... Thanks guys! :D I'm so gonna mess up that campaign (as much as I can, at least)!

    PS. I forgot to mention that in one of his campaigns, we were supposed to meet Sephiroth and Cloud somewhere in the middle--

    Supposed to.

    The campaign ended on the second day due to me and an acquaintance who totally messed up that campaign using 3.5 glitches

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    Troll in the Playground
     
    Totally Guy's Avatar

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    Default Re: [4e] Need help on my build

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    Are you going to ignore erratas or not? Minotaurs, for example, had their "oversized" property removed.
    Can you please link this for me. I don't see that in the errata here. Is there something more up to date that I'm missing?

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: [4e] Need help on my build

    It's one of the Playing foo articles in pay-only Dragon, but it does supercede the Monster Manual one.
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