[4e Balance] - Writing a PC as a Monster

[Shadow_Elf]

If I put a PC in an encounter as an opponent, what does that do to my EXP budget? Is he a normal monster of his/her level? An Elite? A Solo?

I'm not talking about the NPC rules in the DMG or applying a class template to a monster. I want this opponent to have a character sheet.

Any thoughts?

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Interesting. He'll have much lower Hp than an expected monster of his level, but he'll also have many more abilities...

That's actually a good question. I think he'd need to be a higher level than the party by a decent amount (to allow him to not die instantly), but the extra powers and level bonus makes me worried. Maybe about 4-6 levels higher?

[Dublock]

I have had two PCs take on a level 4 when they were level 1 (6 of them I admit, against a...something lol) Then I had a level 2 wizard and a paladin take on a level 8 rogue..although I admit the pally got his daily and did over 30 damage (almost his bloodied value) in a single hit wehich helped as lot.

[Artanis]

You could always just have its character sheet, and strip down an "encounter version" of it using the NPC rules in the DMG for when the party is fighting it.

[KKL]

I'd say an elite of his level.

[JaxGaret]

I would say that you could represent it as an Elite.

You can make a character by the rules that is functionally pretty much the same as a PC by simply taking a Standard classed NPC and adding a class template, making it an Elite. It'll be at just about the same power level as the PCs. If it's a single-classed NPC, simply use the same base class and template class. For a multiclassed NPC, use two different classes.

This is a quick and useful method for making classed NPCs of similar power level to the PCs without having to waste extra time by using the PC creation rules.

[Colmarr]

I agree with previous posters that a fully-formed PC is probably equivalent to a same-level Elite monster.

Hp will be way lower, but damage capability and/or "battle presence" should be way higher (especially if the PC has its full complement of dailies, utilities and encounter powers available).

[Zocelot]

An elite is the XP I'd use, if for no other reason than a PC has about a 50/50 chance of beating an equal level elite.

[Edge of Dreams]

I personally use the rule that PC's count as 1.5 times xp value of a monster of their level. The HP of most PC's is low enough that the party can focus fire them down really quickly, too fast most of the time for them to use all the various powers they have. However, the increased damage and condition output of PC's makes them a greater threat than monsters. I've seen plenty of fights with a PC or several as opponents, and my group generally agrees that they're worth halfway between a normal and an elite.

Alternatives include:
1) Make the character, then multiply hp by 1.5 to make it elite-equivalent and call it an elite.
2) Use the monster creation rules in the dmg to create a generic monster of that level and race, then add the right class template.
3) Don't pick an XP number. Run the fight, see how much trouble the player's have with it, and then estimate the amount of XP the whole fight should be worth relative to a normal encounter of that level. E.G. the fight seemed about 25% harder than a standard encounter, so give 25% more xp. The DMG already recommends tweaking xp values for fights where terrain or other circumstances grants large advantages or disadvantages to the players, this is just an extension of that idea.