[4E] Non-Martial Reliable Attacks?

[RTGoodman]

For some homebrew I'm doing (the Bladepact Warlock, see sig for details), I'm trying to come up with some powers, and I was wondering whether or not to include some Daily attack powers with the Reliable keyword.

Now, I've noticed that most Dailies have one of three things: (1) the Reliable keyword, so you can use it again if you miss; (2) a Miss effect that happens and at least does SOMETHING if you miss with the power; or (3) an Effect line, where something happens REGARDLESS of whether or not you hit the target. Most Reliable powers are, AFAIK, Martial, whereas the Arcane power source tends towards powers that still do lesser damage or have a smaller effect on a miss.

The question is, is there any sort of precedent for Arcane attacks with the Reliable keyword? And if not, does anyone really think it'd be unbalanced or broken. For a couple of the powers I've got in mind, I can't really come up with a good Miss or Effect line, and Reliable seems like it'd be okay, but I just thought I'd check to see if there's something I'm missing.

[MammonAzrael]

I don't believe there is any precedent, and I think that Reliable was purposely supposed to be Martial only. That said, I don't think there would be anything unbalancing with applying it to other power sources.

You could always add a bonus to hit if you didn't want to use Reliable.

I think one of the reasons Reliable was kept only to Martial powers was how it's "reliability" was reflected. An opponent would only fall for the trick once, or landing the blow was tiring enough to only be usable once per day. That don't translate as well, IMO, to magic, but could still be worked in some how easily.

You also might want to think about making them sustainable powers.

[KKL]

I don't see the problem with non-martial reliable attacks.

[Dhavaer]

I think there are some Reliable Warlock powers, either in Dragon or the Forgotten Realms player's guide.

[RTGoodman]

Ah, okay good - glad to see I'm not the only one that doesn't have a problem with it. Guess I'll get back to working on 'em tomorrow sometime.

I think there are some Reliable Warlock powers, either in Dragon or the Forgotten Realms player's guide.

Ah, yeah, I see you're right, now - there are a couple of Reliable powers for Dark Pact warlocks in the FRPG (twilight of the soul and death's fond caress). It's a shame I don't ever play in FR and don't own any of the books, though I guess the D&D Insider compendium helps out.

Thanks guys!

[The Mormegil]

There's at least one Reliable Swordmage power: Vorpal Doom.
But I think there are more.

[Panda-s1]

Yeah, I'd have to agree with the idea that reliable powers only really make sense for martial powers. I mean if I did cast a spell, why should I get to cast it again just 'cause I missed ('cept for pre-4e Magic Missile, but that's stretching it)?

Though it could be like 3.x touch spells where it wouldn't go off until you actually make contact with your target after casting, but that would mean you couldn't cast other spells until you either hit or spend a free action to dismiss it, meaning you'd lose it anyway which kinda sucks.

[Kurald Galain]

Yeah, I'd have to agree with the idea that reliable powers only really make sense for martial powers. I mean if I did cast a spell, why should I get to cast it again just 'cause I missed

I'd have to disagree and say that neither makes sense. A certain maneuver being so tiresome that you can only do it once per day? Yeah right.

Anyway, there's precedent for arcane reliables, in the form of a dragon feat (Sacrifice to Caiphon). And neither game balance nor realism has any argument against them.

[Knaight]

Plus with some spells it would make sense. Such as a spell that involved hitting someone with some sort of beam and then channeling destructive energy through it once it hits. Miss with the beam, and you didn't use up much energy, but once you actually throw in the destructive energy then you start to wear yourself out. Or say an attack when you made mental contact, then attacked the mind, mental contact is insignificant, actually destroying the mind not so much.

[Panda-s1]

I'd have to disagree and say that neither makes sense. A certain maneuver being so tiresome that you can only do it once per day? Yeah right.

Anyway, there's precedent for arcane reliables, in the form of a dragon feat (Sacrifice to Caiphon). And neither game balance nor realism has any argument against them.

Yeah yeah yeah (BTW, that's one of my favorite DM of the Rings strips ever). Though in retrospect, in accordance with my touchspell scenario, I guess, uh, "decharging" the spell to be used again to make sense.

I do also like the idea shooting a beam as a kind of transfer device instead of just being the spell itself. I'm just too used to the idea of spells being used once ever, but this is 4e, how can I forget? :P