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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Southwestern Germany
    Gender
    Male

    Default GitP StarCraft 1: Brood War group (thread II)

    <NOTE: As of November 12th, 2010, this group is disbanded. Feel free to continue to use this thread for organizing spontaneous meetings or SC1 discussion, but the "official" sessions that took place on Saturdays do not take place anymore.>

    This thread serves to bring all interested Playgrounders together for a bit good ol' fun in the BattleNet with StarCraft: Brood War. Also for any discussions related with StarCraft 1 - strategies, remarks, whatever.
    I'll update this post to accomodate changes in organisation, new people joining the group, or whatever else might prove interesting or relevant.
    The previous thread can be found here.

    The people who expressed interest so far are (BattleNet name in brackets):
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    DnDestruction (DnDestruction)
    tannish2 (tannish2)
    LordVader (GeneralJack)
    exodus_dragon (Exodus_DragonX)
    Winterwind (Winterwind_GitP)
    Korias
    Cybren (Cybren)
    Dumbledore lives
    Vonriel (Vonriel)
    Deepblue706 (LaserFace)
    LiteYear (LiteYear)
    Neftren (TheOldCoyote)
    mf11 (ForzaFiori11)
    Traveling_Angel (TravelingAngel)
    PePe_QuiCoSE (Yakkul)
    Mr.Moron (Mr.Moron)
    Redpieper (Redpieper)
    Everto (Evert0)
    Edanor
    Anatharon (Ascension)
    Drago (Commodore_Drago)
    Setra (Setra)
    Penthar (Malderon)
    Chaos Evoker
    Moongoat (moongoat13)
    Vael Nir (eU)NiCk)
    SirSigfried (Libertarian_SDR)
    Murska (Murska)
    nooblade (nooblade)
    Cynan Machae (CynanMachae)
    The Orange Zergling (Baneling_Aspect)
    SithLackey (SithLackey)
    Adghar
    Zakama (Zakama)
    Lord_Asmodeus (Lord_Asmodeus)
    zeratul
    theterran (TheTerran)
    Veridian (Cenerae)
    Warshrike (Warshrike)
    FieryBalrog (Balrog200)
    Albub (Albubbly)
    Rune Katashima
    Goldstein (gold.stein)
    GoodbyeSoberDay (GoodbyeSoberDay)
    WarNiX (WarNiX)
    Lykos (Lykos)
    legoshrimp (legoshrimp)
    Shovah
    hobbes543 (hobbes543)
    Winthur (Winth)
    starwoof (starwoof)
    stabbybelkar (stabbybelkar)
    Cyclone231 (Cyclone231)
    Rawtooth (Rawtooth)
    Shooobs (schubert)
    Rigel Cyrosea (Rigel_Cyrosea)
    Raroy (Ralvious)
    averagejoe
    Fan (WA-Vampire)
    Krade (Krade[2k20])
    DemonicAngel
    Glenstorm (Glen-Storm)
    Zocelot (Black0baron)
    three08 (three08)
    DarkKnightCuron
    deathslayer7 (deathslayer7)
    kopaka (kopaka)
    lordofthe_wog (lordofthe_wog)
    ShneekeyTheLost
    ThunderMonkey (ThunderMonkey)
    Darth Mario (darth-mario)
    Dragon Raptor (DragonRaptor)
    randommiser
    Mondsichel (Qube)
    Moofaa
    Caewil (Caewil)
    GoC (Chance2)
    totallgeek (totallgeek)
    Battleship789 (Battleship789)
    DMTibernius (DMTibby)
    Half-Blood (Letaluss)
    imp_fireball (SolidSamurai)
    742 (742)
    Hannes
    Silverraptor (Silverraptor)
    aNooburak (Mikro)
    king.com (king.com)
    Satoros (Satoros)
    EleventhHour (Ellycat)
    smuchmuch (smuchmuch)
    Dragonus45
    Maerok (pwned101)

    anyone interested, feel free to join us. The more the merrier.
    I suggest adding each other to our friend lists - that way, it becomes easier to see who is online.

    Our "meeting place" is the BattleNet, US East server, channel op GitP. This serves both for planned "events" as for meeting for spontaneous games.

    Standard meeting time is each Saturday, starting around 5 PM EST, with people joining whenever they see fit. This thread or instant messenger programs (like AIM) can also be used to arrange spontaneous meetings.

    5 PM EST corresponds to the following times in various time zones:
    2 PM Pacific = 3 PM Mountain = 4 PM Central = 5 PM Eastern = 6 PM Atlantic =10 PM Western European = 11 PM Central European

    We have our own channel bot, [email protected], by courtesy of Leper_Kahn and Cynan Machae. Its capabilities and functions are described here. For optimum functionality, it would be helpful if everyone added the bot to their friend-lists.

    A collection of often played melee maps - the same ones as used by professional StarCraft players - can be found here and here (links courtesy of Cynan Machae)

    __________________

    For all those unfamiliar with the BattleNet, here is a quick introduction. You can also find a more complete explanation here.
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    When you log onto the BattleNet, the first thing you'll want to do will be to join the GitP channel - our private Playgrounder chatroom. To do so, click on the Channel-button to the left, and type GitP into the proper box, to enter the channel. Don't bother looking for it in the list of available channels - being a private channel, it won't appear there. You will either enter the channel then, or get a message telling you that such a channel does not exist and whether you would like to create it. Do so - this means that either you are the first one to come online, or all others are currently in a game, instead of in the channel.

    You have a number of commands which you can utilise for easier communication with us, finding out and keeping track who is online, and so forth. Most commands have aliases, which result in the same command, but are shorter. For instance, a useful command is
    /help
    which lists you the topics/commands you can ask the BattleNet to explain to you. For example,
    /help whisper
    will explain what the whisper command does.
    The alias for /help is /h, so typing /h instead of /help, or /h whisper instead of /help whisper will yield exactly the same result.

    You have a friend list, onto which you can place up to 25 players, for various benefits. All commands related to the friend list begin with /friends (alias /f). Those will likely be the ones you will use most. You add a player with the account name Nickname by typing
    /f add Nickname
    or, if you prefer,
    /f a Nickname
    so, for instance, by typing /f a Winterwind_GitP you would add my BattleNet account to your friend list. The list of all our BattleNet accounts is above. I suggest adding as many people as possible, or at least the ones who are more frequently attending the sessions.

    The benefits of adding people to your friend list are manifold:

    If you type
    /f list
    or
    /f l, you will see your friend list, which tells you who, amongst these people, is currently online. This way, you can find out who is online, even when they are not in the channel. So, if you enter the BattleNet and don't find anybody in the channel, do not despair - check your friend list first. Chances are, we might all be currently in games.

    By typing
    /f message Text
    or
    /f m Text
    you send the Text you type to all people on your friend list who are currently online, no matter where they are - even when they are in games, and not in the channel.

    By typing /f p Nickname or /f d Nickname (or, if you wish, promote and demote instead of p and d) you can sort your friend list by moving people up and down on it.

    If you want to remove someone from the list, use
    /f remove Nickname
    or, you guessed it,
    /f r Nickname

    If people are mutually on each others friend lists, this has the added benefit that, when one of them enters/exits the BattleNet or joins a game, the other gets a message which informs them about this fact. That's another reason why it is helpful if we add each other to our friend lists (unfortunately, the limit of 25 people is too small for the group).

    If you wish to send some Text to just one person - be it, so that the others in the channel don't see it, or because you wish to speak to some specific person who currently is not in the channel, type
    /whisper Nickname Text
    or
    /w Nickname Text
    Another aliases for this command, which accomplish the same, are /msg Nickname Text and /m Nickname Text.

    If you want to check whether somebody who is not on your friend list is online, you can use
    /whois Nickname
    which will tell you so.

    If, on the other hand, you want to check who happens to be in a particular channel, you can use
    /who Channelname.

    Patch 1.16 added, for the greater ease of replying to people whispering you, the option to write
    /r Text
    in place of /w Nickname Text if you want the text to be sent to the person who whispered you last. Unfortunately, as of this writing, this function is bugged and will think you want to use /r whenever you write something where the second character is 'r' and the third one a blank, no matter what the first character is.

    Last, rather a fun gimmick than useful, but included since people will invariably ask about it, it is possible to write emotes in the chat, meaning that the text you type is presented as <Nickname Text> rather than <Nickname>: Text. You do so by typing
    /me Text


    Some of us can also be found on the ICCup server; some info on that courtesy of PePe_QuiCoSE:
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    Quote Originally Posted by PePe_QuiCoSE View Post
    This is the download page and this is the latest map pack.

    This is a quick guide on how to join ICCup.
    It boils down to 1) have 1.15.3 2) register on their site 2) download and install launcher . Everything can be solved through their site.
    The people who play on ICCup are (ICCup accounts in brackets):
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    Leper_Kahn (LeperKahn)
    Winterwind (Winterdream)
    PePe_QuiCoSE (Yakkul)
    Cynan Machae (CynanMachae)
    Murska (Murska)
    Zakama (Zakama)
    WarNiX (WarNiX)
    Winthur (Winth)
    Raroy (Ralvious)
    Glenstorm (Glenstorm)
    Battleship789 (Battleship789)
    imp_fireball (SolidSamurai)
    Oslecamo (Onard)
    Penthar (Malderon)
    aNooburak (Makro.Mikro)


    Some useful links for those who want to satisfy their SC addiction on other sites courtesy of PePe_QuiCoSE and WarNiX:
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    Gosu Gamers - Good SC site with daily news and replays from pros and semi pros. The site also covers War3 and dota.

    TeamLiquid - Excellent SC site for hardcore fans, with the best foreign coverage of the Korean pro gamers scene. Lots of videos of Pro games to watch and a good forum overall.

    Iccup Ladder - Best ladder around today. If you want to get better, mass game. If you want mass game, do it here. Oh, and prepare to lose, the level here is high.

    WGTour - THE site for clan wars, nation wars and the top non-korean competitive SC overall.

    BWChart - Good program to see stats from replays, like APM (actions per minute), build orders, unit distribution, and much more.

    __________________

    Finally, courtesy of WarNiX, a couple of videos demonstrating good players at play, complete with explanations of their actions, reasonings and build orders:

    An overview of English Zerg VoDs by different players:
    http://starcraft.ingame.de/content.php?c=75534&s=475

    For Protoss, some VoDs by Nony, a really good American Protoss, also featuring build orders and decision making:
    http://de.youtube.com/results?search...y&search_type=

    And some other ones for download:
    http://starcraft.ingame.de/content.php?c=75533&s=475
    The site is in German, but should still be understandable.[/QUOTE]


    Our sister group for WarCraft 3 can be found here.
    Last edited by Winterwind; 2010-11-12 at 07:04 AM.
    LGBTitP Supporter
    In a Wonderland they lie, Dreaming as the days go by, Dreaming as the summers die - Ever drifting down the stream - Lingering in the golden gleam - Life, what is it, but a dream?
    - Lewis Carroll

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Southwestern Germany
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: GitP StarCraft 1: Brood War group (thread II)

    Guides

    Some general tips on playing StarCraft:
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    Since a few people expressed interest in such a thing, here is, for all those who are interested in learning how to play StarCraft better, a short guide to that. Note, however, that this is purely optional for the convenience of those interested in reading it - if you are a newcomer, or doubting your StarCraft skills, do not worry, the presence of these guides shall not, in any way, indicate that being able to play the game well or having read those guides is somehow a requirement for participation or fun. We do not care about skill, winning or losing, merely having some fun together.

    Some basic advice beforehand: Guides may be helpful, but they can never replace practice. Another good (and possibly more entertaining ) way to improve would be watching games of better players - preferably with someone explaining to you why the players do what they do, be it a game commentator in a video, or just some better player from the group in a replay. Also, watch your own replays and - that's the most difficult part - especially those where you lose. It's crucial to understanding what you did wrong so you can get rid of that.

    And finally, a disclaimer: I do not, by any means, claim to have a perfect understanding of the game. I write these guides to my best knowledge, but I can't guarantee my best knowledge does not contain crucial errors. I hope the players in this thread who are better than me can correct me where I make a mistake.

    General Play
    General remarks and tips for the game; the build-orders and specific strategies for the races in various match-up are in the race-specific guides. This part will outline the core strategies and goals you should pursue; if you are annoyed that what is proposed in this part is lacking substance and is not concrete, don't worry - that's what the other guides are for.
    At the beginning of this guide there is a short glossary of terms that will be used throughout the other guides; make sure you are familiar with it.
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    Glossary
    First to clarify a few terms that will be used throughout the guides:
    Main [base] - the base where all your production and technology buildings are; pretty much always the base where you start.
    Expansion - a new main building you built at some source of minerals and gas to harvest them. When you build new expansions, this is called "expanding".
    Natural - the ressource site/expansion which is located right next to your main base. On almost all maps, there is a natural, in direct vicinity of the exit of your base. This is the expansion you are most likely to take first, for it can be protected easily due to the proximity of your main.
    Refinery - may also refer to the Zerg Extractor or the Protoss Assimilator, not only the Terran building.
    Macro - spending your ressources properly. If you have ten factories and keep all them running at all times, your macro is good. If you accummulate thousands of minerals in short time, you macro poorly. More to it later.
    Micro - controling units in battle. Includes throwing spells, distributing damage between your units, and more. More to it later.
    "When you are at 10 supply..." - throughout the guides, there will be tips that you should do this or that "when you are at X supply". This refers to the number of supply you have used up at the moment when you should do the specified task. For example, "build a Pylon at 8 supply" means you should build a Pylon with your seventh Probe while the eight is being built.


    The interface
    A few things that could come in handy to know about StarCraft's interface:
    You can assign hotkey numbers to units or to single buildings by selecting them and pressing CTRL+number, where number is any number from 1 through 0. If you press that number later, you will automatically select whatever it is you assigned the hotkey to.

    A double-click or CTRL+click on a unit selects all units of the same time currently on screen.

    CTRL+click on the picture of one of your selected units selects all units of that type from the units you had selected already.

    SHIFT+click adds a not yet selected unit to your currently selected units, or removes an already selected unit from your current selection (including when you click on the picture of the unit down in the selection list, and not the unit itself on the main screen). You can also add multiple units at once to your current selection using by holding down SHIFT and drawing a selection box.


    Game concepts
    A few basic concepts required to understand why some units are better or worse suited as counter to other units, and more:

    There are three kinds of damage and three kinds of units in StarCraft: Normal damage, Concussive damage and Explosive damage, and Small, Medium and Large units, respectively. All buildings are considered Large units.
    Units with Normal damage deal full damage to all units.
    Units with Concussive damage deal full damage to Small units, 50% damage to Medium units, and 25% damage to Large units.
    Units with Explosive damage deal full damage to Large units, 75% damage to Medium units, and 50% damage to Small units.
    This is why, for example, Vultures (Concussive damage) are so strong against Zealots (Small units), but so poor against Dragoons (Large units).
    You can find the damage and size types of all units, together with all other relevant stats, on the StarCraft BattleNet site here.

    Some ground units hover. This means they do not activate hostile Spider Mines (while being otherwise treated as normal ground units). Hovering units are SCVs, Drones, Probes, Vultures, Archons and Dark Archons.

    * * *

    The goal
    StarCraft is, at its heart, won by spending more ressources than the opponent in a shorter time. This should always be the goal you are working towards - even when you are opting for a quick victory via rush, you are more likely to win because your rush costs your opponent so many workers that you win economically, than because you eradicate your opponent instantly.

    This goal consists of two parts: First, harvest more ressources than your opponent, and then spend all of them. The latter part, while difficult to achieve in practice and a hallmark of a good player, is easy in theory: Just build enough hatcheries, gateways, factories or whatever you will, and keep them running at all times, while upgrading, researching and building. More to that later.

    Now to the part about harvesting more ressources than the opponent. To achieve this, you need to keep increasing the amount of ressources available to you, while trying to decrease your opponent's ability to harvest his ressources.


    Three Workers at the vespine gas
    On almost all maps the distance of your main building at the start to the vespine gas is the minimum distance which a main building must have to any ressources. In that case, and also when you expand and place the main building as close to the gas as possible, which you should pretty much always do, the ideal number of workers to keep the refinery running at full capacity is three. More will not fit into the refinery, less will not earn you maximum profit, so always have three in it.
    If the way is longer, for some reason, you will have to use more workers for maximum effect, but this should come up only rarely.


    You always have too few workers!
    You can take this as a given - if you are a beginner, you are guaranteed to have way too few workers harvesting minerals. Essentially, you should have 2-3 times as many workers on your minerals in the main base as there are mineral patches. Yes, that is more than can work efficiently there, but that is perfectly fine - once you build an expansion, you can (and should!) transfer a bunch of the workers to said expansion, so that it starts earning you profits immediately, instead of you having to wait until workers are built. Also, if you have more workers than mineral patches, some worker can take start harvesting a mineral patch immediately when the worker which harvested it before is on its way back to the main building, thus allowing you to keep harvesting from that mineral patch without interruption. Remember, the goal is to harvest as much as possible in the shortest time!

    Unless you are a Zerg, the main building should keep producing workers non-stop at the game's beginning - ideally, until you have an expansion or longer. For Zerg, it is a bit more complicated - the highest art of playing Zerg is finding the proper balance between building units and economy.

    If, when you hit 200 used up supply, you have 60+ workers operating three or more expansions, you are doing fine.

    The importance of building many workers cannot be overemphasised. At least in the beginning, you should definitely assign a hotkey number to your main building at the beginning (this is of lesser importance, but if you are playing with English hotkeys and are a Terran or Zerg, it should ideally be a low number, so your way to S/D is shorter, whereas a Protoss would be better served with 0)

    Remember to send your workers to work as soon as they come out. Don't have them just sit there doing nothing.


    Distributing the workers/start of the game
    Also called "cloning"; when you send the four workers you start with all together to the minerals, only one will start harvesting, while the others wait for him to finish, and the whole bunch will only slowly start harvesting different mineral patches. You can speed this up by sending them manually to different patches manually. This puts you ahead of someone who does not do this by a short amount of time - but, in the beginning of the game, even a short amount of time can be decisive.
    The best way to start the game would be as follows:
    1. Select main building
    2. Order production of a worker
    3. Select all workers
    4. Order all workers to a mineral patch, so they already start moving towards the minerals
    5. Issue order to different workers to harvest different patches.
    My preferred way for step 5 is to deselect one worker via SHIFT+click on his portrait, then order the remaining three to a different mineral patch, rinse and repeat.


    Keep expanding
    You need to keep expanding, whenever you get an opportunity. Remember that the goal of expanding is not securing more ressources for when the ones in your main are used up - you want to speed up the rate at which you harvest more ressources, for which you need more mineral patches - due to the limit of just one worker being able to harvest a patch at a time, you will reach your full harvesting capacity quickly if you don't. While generally Zerg are said to be most in need of many expansions, and Terrans the least, it's still usually the one who can out-expand his opponent who will score the win. Try to get your first expansion quickly - for a Zerg, the first building to be built can often be the expansion itself. The only reason why you might want to delay an expansion would be if you are in need of the ressources for some other task - like going for some surprising technology quickly, be it air units or a drop, or to build up an army more quickly because you can't defend yourself otherwise or think you have a good chance to do more damage to your opponent with a massed attack than the delay of your expansion will hurt you.

    It may be a good idea to place expansions in some places far away from both you and your opponent, so that he doesn't find it. This, however, also bears the distinct disadvantage of the expansion being difficult to defend then. Still, if you feel you can surprise your opponent, go for it. Also, offset distance from your main base with defenses - for one, expansions are a place where even many (as in, worth 1000+ minerals) defensive structures make sense. Make sure they cover your workers, even if your opponent should get behind the minerals (almost all maps offer such a possibility). If you can hold an expansion thanks to these defenses, they will pay for themselves quickly.

    A good moment for expanding is when the opponent is distracted or otherwise unable to react - expand while harrassing the opponent or when you have successfully contained him in his base (see below).


    The opponent turtles
    As an addition to the previous section, if you see that the opponent is going for some massive defenses in their base - do not waste units in an attack probably doomed to failure, smile instead and start expanding all over the map. By devoting large amounts of ressources to stationary defenses the opponent has neglected his mobile fighting force, which means he no longer has the power to prevent you from expanding. By abusing this mistake, you over-expand your opponent and, when he finally comes out of his base, starved for a fight or new ressources, he will face overwhelming numbers and superior technology.


    Harrassment
    Harrassment is when a player attacks the other with some small-scaled attack, usually not with the intent of killing him, but of doing some damage and forcing the opponent to deal with the harrassment. An example of harrassment would be a single zealot or a few zerglings running past the opponents defenses and going straight for the workers; later on, harrassments consist of groups of vultures driving around and killing workers at expansions, or drops, involving some capable units (preferably with areal damage) being unloaded from dropships straight in the opponent's base.
    The reasons for harrassment are manifold: You can deal serious damage to an opponent and quite possibly cripple his income by blasting most of his workers, and you create a distraction which you can use for your own goals - for instance, expanding yourself, while your opponent still tries to get rid of your drop. It is quite possible to win a game on harrassment alone, by dealing so much damage to your opponent's economy with just a few units that they never recover. Particularly nasty are harrassments with units your opponent might not have a way to deal with (i.e. air or invisible units); then it might even be possible to kill the opponent if your harrassment takes out his possibilities to deal with the harrassment (like killing his Robotics Facility with your Dark Templar before he can build Observers).


    Scout
    You need to know where your opponent is and what he is up to. For one, so you don't get a nasty surprise in the form of invisible units or a drop, and second, so that you notice when they are expanding so you can prevent them from doing such a nasty thing. Use cheap units (burrowed zerglings, overlords, zealots, observers, marines, spider mines) or even supply buildings to maintain vision at all ressource sites on the map. Try to get something into your opponent's base so you see what buildings and units he is going for - fast or flying units are well suited for this task. Send out an early worker - if you want it early, at around 9 supply, otherwise around 12 - to find the opponent's base and maybe even see what his first few buildings are - the longer you can keep your worker alive in his base, the more you will see what they are up to. Mid-game, it is a good idea to send out a single worker to some far-off ressource sites - it is expendable, if it finds an opponent's expansion you know where you have to strike, and otherwise you have a worker right at some ressource site which you can immediately use for expansion.


    Maintain map control/Contain
    Try, if possible, to keep the opponent in his base. You likely will not be able to prevent them from getting their natural, but draw a line there - here, and not any further! If they cannot leave their base, they will have much more trouble to expand (essentially, they will have to do it via dropship or breaking your containment first), and likewise scouting and harrassing becomes that much more difficult - essentially, sooner or later, they will have to breach your contain. Do not enter the base, unless you feel sure enough you can deal enough damage (which you will, sooner or later, if you use the contain to out-expand your opponent), but stay with your units just out of range of his defenses, and do not let anything out alife. Maybe even build some defensive buildings of your own there. If your opponent can't breach your contain, they are as good as dead.


    Be aggressive, not defensive!
    Attack is the best defense. You can't win a game with defending alone. Even if you repel ten attacks, if your opponent suffers no other damage then losing his army and you do not take advantage of this loss, sooner or later one of the attacks will get through. Also, if you do not attack, your opponent will have his will - he will take map control, contain you, expand everywhere and/or get the most ludicrous techs, while you don't do anything to prevent it. Conversely, if you attack, you keep your opponent occupied - they will not be able to do whatever it is they intend to do. And finally - it makes for a more exciting, and hence fun game.

    Also, as a friend told me once, remember that your opponent cannot do magic either. When you have just been attacked and repelled that attack by killing the whole attacking army, do not assume that your opponent necessarily has some second massive army waiting to be used if you dare to leave your base. If they attacked, they likely used everything - if you still have even just a few units, this might well be your opportunity to get out and hit your opponents expansions, or alike. Yes, when you just had a massive army and suddenly find yourself 30+ supply lower than just a few seconds ago, this is somewhat intimidating, and may lead you to thinking you need just as massive an army as you just had before you can dare to leave the base. But if it was you who pushed the opponent back, it is quite likely that the opponent has even less now, and if you strike now, he will not be able to prevent you from dealing damage or maybe even defeating him. Many a StarCraft battle was lost because the person with the prevailing army did not pursue his fallen enemy and allowed him to re-build instead, thus giving him a chance to maybe, yet, turn the tables in an otherwise lost game.

    Along the same lines, do not exaggerate your defenses. Every defensive structure is ressources you cannot use for units and thus keeping map control. In the short run you might feel massive defenses make you safer - in fact, they do quite the opposite in the long run, for they weaken your mobile army, which means you cannot leave your base anymore - if your opponent invested all their ressources into an army they will have a stronger one, and since noone can force them to run into your defenses, when you meet out in the field they will have the upper hand. This, on the other hand, means you cannot expand (for you won't be able to defend it), while they can, and thus you will fall behind economically.


    Go for the expansions
    It is usually a better idea to hit an expansion than the main base. At the main base, the opponent has immediate unit production, usually a well defensible choke and possibly defensive structures, plus all the units he has built which are waiting to be put to use. An expansion, far away from the main, might quite possibly not get help in time to be saved, and be easier to overwhelm.

    Be wary, though - if the opponent deems the expansion unsafeable, he might decide to counter-attack instead while your army is occupied with killing the expansion, especially if the expansion should itself be decently protected.

    Conversely, keep in mind you have that option yourself if one of your expansions gets attacked.


    Macro
    All the ressources you accumulate need to be spent, of course, if they are to be of any use. Keep building unit production buildings - about 3-4 per ressource site you operate in the long run, and try to keep them running as much as possible. If you see you are not spending the ressources fast enough - build more unit production buildings! Also, do not forget researching and upgrading - if you have decent income, you should consider building several upgrade buildings (armouries, evolution chambers, forges), so you can upgrade even faster. Upgrades are important - if you fall behind, you might find your army utterly ineffective against your opponent's.

    So how to spend the income in detail? The basic concept is as follows: If you want short term results, spend it on unit production buildings and units. Short term results would be maintaining pressure on your opponent, rushing, harrassment and getting a viable defense after your army was crushed.
    If you want medium term results, tech - build the buildings you need for better units. If you wait with this too long without causing enough damage with rushes, you will lose - without detectors, you will die to the Spider Mines, Lurkers or Dark Templar. It also allows you such strategies as drops or surprising your enemy with such units as Dark Templar, which can possibly win you the game.
    If you want long term results, finally, expand. An expansion will need time to come to fruition and pay for itself, and it doesn't do any immediate damage to your enemy like a drop would. However, ultimately, the added income will allow you to overwhelm and out-tech your opponent.

    You need to carefully outweigh short, medium and long term results. If, for instance, you neglect your army too much in favour of research and expansion, you are risking a lot. If your opponent is passive and leaves you in peace, you may get through with it - in which case your longer term investments will pay for themselves and you will likely have a great advantage. On the other hand, if the opponent is whatsoever aggressive - and a good player will definitely be - you may get overrun and killed before your longer term investments pay for themselves. Unless you think you can distract your opponent sufficiently with harrassments so he does not discover your temporary weakness - which is a perfectly viable and strong strategy - you would be better advised to not take this risk and carefully balance army, tech and expos.


    Microing units
    Micro is the art of controling units in battle. Two forces of equal composition can meet each other, and the one eradicates the other with minimal losses - due to the player's control. The most obvious part of micro is the use of spells - a Psi Storm can turn the tide of many a battle - but it does not end here. There are some other aspects of microing small armies which are highly important in the early game, since that's where small armies fight each other - and the one who gains an upper hand here is the one more likely to deal damage to the opponent's workers or to get into the position to expand, while the other still struggles to rebuild his army to a size where he could hope to defend an expansion himself. Also, the groups you use for harrassment are typically small, and can deal that much more damage if you micro them properly.

    One basic aspect is, of course, to attack whatever is the most dangerous to you. If you can get a safe shot at it, don't waste your time killing the footmen, while the artillery remains unattacked and firing - go straight for that siege tank, lurker or reaver.

    Another is: If you see you are outmatched, withdraw! There is no use wasting units against an overwhelming force - better to withdraw them, move them to the newly built units at your base, and overwhelm the opponent with this force instead! (Yes - this means StarCraft armies tend to sometimes run back and forth from one base to the other)

    The next part is focussing your fire. By focussing your fire on one hostile unit, you take out that unit faster, thus removing its firepower. Once it is gone, all the times it might have fired upon you yet before dying if you had scattered your fire instead will be forfeit.

    The other side of this is to withdraw attacked units. When there are a few Dragoons duking it out with a few other Dragoons, withdraw the one Dragoon your opponent is focussing his fire upon. Either your opponent's Dragoons will start to chase this Dragoon - thus moving instead of firing, which you can abuse to kill, in theory, the whole army without taking even one more hit - or he will have to start focussing a different Dragoon, at which point you can send in the first Dragoon to the fight again - you have neutralised the purpose of focussing the fire for your opponent! This works even with melee units.

    A special form of the last point occurs when you have ranged units and your opponent does not - in this case, you can either keep having your units fire once, move away, fire again after they have reloaded, and so forth, thus greatly reducing or eliminating the damage you might take, or - if that is to difficult or time consuming to do - just remove the attacked unit, so far that the opponent's units switch to another target, at which point you command the first unit to attack and start retreating the second. This way, you deal lots of damage, while for your opponent only single units get to strike and keep moving half of the time when they could be attacking instead. Vultures, Hydralisks and Dragoons, in particular, can tear apart huge armies of melee units while taking minimal damage and no losses this way where, ordinarily, the melee units would slaughter them mercilessly.


    Guide for Protoss
    coming soon!

    Guide for Zerg
    coming soon!

    Guide for Terrans
    coming soon!


    A Beginner's Guide for Zerg, courtesy of Leper_Kahn:
    Spoiler
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leper_Kahn View Post
    Playing Zerg: A Beginners Guide

    Part I: What is Zerg
    Zerg is every unstoppable primal alien force, Zerg is every zombie infestation, but most of all Zerg is paradox.

    The population ever perpetuated, Zerg can out wait even the most patient of foes for the perfect opportunity to strike. The population ever scarce, Zerg is the unstoppable lust for outright destruction of the enemy. Pure in essence, Zerg are the ultimate destroyers. Pure in essence, Zerg are the ultimate creators. Stronger than all, Zerg overpowers their foes. Feebler than all, Zerg cannot touch the enemy.

    Part II: Caution Zerg Working
    Zerg requires, possibly more than any other race in Starcraft, a state of mind particular to the race. Terran and Protoss most often operate in a "ball;" a sort of hand coming out of the the body, where the body represents the main of the player. Zerg does this as well. In fact, as the game progresses Zerg emulates this function more and more. However, Zerg doesn't just use their hand. Zerg must use a foot, a knee, or perhaps a tentacle to get their job done. This is why newer players find Zerg so challenging.

    Part III: Important Gameplay Concepts
    Flanking: This is one of the most important aspects of a Zerg army. In Zerg versus Terran Zerg can hardly even approach the Terran without a flank. Ultimately, flanking increases the damage the Zerg army does and decreases the amount of damage the Zerg army takes.

    Drone to Army Ratio: Unlike other races Zerg cannot constantly produce workers. The mechanics of hatcheries are such that you either need to be producing drones OR fighting units. Learning when to make drones versus army comes with time, but generally use this philosophy: When the enemy has few forces and is unlikely to attack you make drones. When the enemy has many forces and is likely to attack you OR you are trying to attack him/her make attacking units.

    Constantly Make Units: Zerg can save up larva and produce many units at the same time. DO NOT DO THIS! There are times when it is important to save larva, but DO NOT save larva for a reason other than the design of a build order. For example: With the build 9 Spawning Pool saving larva for Zerglings, or 2 Hatchery Mutalisks when saving for the Spire to finish.

    Expanding: Zerg is expansion hungry. In every match up you need more expansions than the opposing player if you expect to win. (Somewhat of an exception for Zerg versus Zerg.) However, you can't simply send out a drone and expand. Just like when producing drones it is best to expand when you don't expect the enemy to attempt to attack you.

    Backstabbing: Now, don't always backstab, but there are times, often in the early game, when you can send a control group of zerglings behind the enemy army that just moved out of his/her base. If you can get Zerglings, Lurkers, or even Mutalisks in an enemy's worker line you can wreak serious havoc.

    Macro: Macro, Macro, Macro... (Macro.) Keep making units. Keep your minerals and gas low. This is the most important thing for a player your level.

    Use your head: Seriously... This is the MOST important part of playing Starcraft. Don't ever just play without your mind involved. It's very easy to fall into a computer-esk playing style especially when you play often. It's always good to remind yourself to use your head.

    Part IV: Macro Tips
    Hotkey Suggestion: 1-4 Army, 5-0 Hatcheries

    Make Units: Keep making units... Just do it! KEEP MAKING UNITS!

    Hatchery Placement: Put Hatcheries in places where they won't block your units, but will block enemy units from making a quick run-by into your main base.

    Rally Point: The best place for a rally point is either right outside your choke point, or right inside it. This gives easy access to the rest of your base, and easy access to the outside world.

    Part V: Micro Tips
    Stacking Mutalisks: Put your Mutalisks in a control group with an Overlord or a Larva. Watch out for sending your Overlord into hostile territory.

    Hotkey Tips: I use 1-3 for Zerglings and 4 for Lurkers in a Lurker-Ling build. I use 1-2 for Zerglings and 3-4 for Hydralisks in a Zergling-Hydralisk build. I use 1-3 for Hydralisks and 4 for Lurkers in a Hydra Lurker build. I use 1 for Mutalisks when harassing (WITH AN OVERLORD) and 2 for the same Mutalisks (WITHOUT THE OVERLORD).

    Part V: Common Build Orders
    Zerg versus Terran:
    2 Hatchery Mutalisks:
    9 Overlord
    11 Scout
    12 Hatchery
    11 Pool
    10 Gas
    2-4 Zerglings
    16 Overlord
    Lair
    Zergling speed
    Have a total of 8-10 Zerglings
    When Lair finishes make Spire
    When Lair finishes make another Extractor
    Continue making units until the Spire is @ 400 HP. The moment the spire hits 400 HP you need to have (At each hatchery) 1 larva and 1 overlord just starting to morph. Do not make units until the spire finishes.
    When Spire finishes make 6 Mutalisks at the same time.

    Zerg versus Protoss:
    4 Hatchery Hydralisk:
    9 Overlord
    11 Scout
    12 hatchery
    11 pool
    14 hatchery
    15 extractor
    18 hatchery
    17 Hydra Den
    Get Hydra speed as soon as the Hydra Den finishes
    Make a ton of Hydralisks
    Get Hydra range as soon Hydra speed finishes

    Zerg versus Zerg:
    1 Hatch Mutalisk:
    9 Spawning Pool
    8 Drone
    9 Gas
    8 Drone
    9 Overlord
    Lair
    When Lair finishes make a Spire
    Continue making units until the Spire is @ 400 HP. The moment the spire hits 400 HP you need to have (At each hatchery) 1 larva and 1 overlord just starting to morph. Do not make units until the spire finishes.
    When Spire finishes make 3 Mutalisks at the same time.


    A few common build orders, courtesy of PePe_QuiCoSE, aka Yakkul:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by PePe_QuiCoSE View Post
    Ok, i'll add some well known BO just for reference.

    As a personal note, I'd recommend to start with melee going for cheese builds or rushes. This will make shorter games and will push you to learn how to micro, how to scout and a bit of multitasking. Not everyone will agree with this but the idea behind is that the longer the games goes on, the more probable that the better player will win the game because he has been more efficient than his opponent for a longer period of time thus being able to get back from a serious set back.
    I also wouldn't recommend to try to copy progamers BO without really studying them. Thing is, a lot of Builds they do can't be executed if you don't have the necessary micro or timing. For example: nowadays every Protoss (and Terrans too) goes Fast Expansion against Zerg for several reasons. But FE took a long time to develop to be truly safe and it's easily abusable by Zerg if it's not done perfectly. It's really frustrating to be building your second zealot behind your 2 cannons when 12 hydras break into your natural.

    Ok, Build Orders:

    PvZ
    9/9 gate
    Spoiler
    Show
    7 pylon
    9 gateway
    9 gateway

    you have to make the pylon before the 8th probe. Then you make 2 more and stop to make gateways. After this you start producing zealots none stop sneaking a probe here and there. Don't forget to make your 2nd pylon when you are around the 15 psy.
    This is a pretty all-in strategy: if your attack fails you'll probably be behind in economy. Specially if you do a proxy. This means making the pylon and the gateways outside your main base and near the opponent's base or in the middle of the map (so the zealots arrive faster to the enemy base). For this take your 6th probe and send it out. When it arrives to the place you want the gates placed you should already have the 7th probe and 100 minerals for the pylon.
    Another variant is to make a brief attack and go back to normal. Only make the first 3 zealots for a pressure attack and trying to do some damage and then resume probe production and get some tech.
    All of this works quite well if the Zerg went for a fast expansion. If the zerg went for a 9 pool or overpool block your ramp and take it up from there.

    10/12 gate
    Spoiler
    Show
    8 pylon
    10 gate
    12 gate

    pretty simple and straight forward. You get early zealots for some pressure or to block your ramp but you don't hurt your economy as you get probes non-stop. It's almost always good to attack (specially against a fast expansion) but you'll rarely be able to kill the zerg. Do some damage and know when to go back to your base.

    PvT
    1 gate tech
    Spoiler
    Show

    8 pylon
    10 gate
    11/12 assimilator
    13/14 cybernetics core

    The 11/12 is just clear up that you should make this as soon as you have the money; depending on how the minerals are placed around the Nexus it'll be a bit faster or slower.
    The idea here is to rush to Dragoons. From there you can choose to get another gate for more dragoons, Dragoon range (it makes Dragoons a lot better), go Robotics Bay to get observers (as Terran's usually do a fast research of mines) or a Citadel of Adun (and later Templar Archives) to get fast Dark Templars. You can do this because Terran's will be rushing to Factory because they are a lot better against Protoss. There is a lot to discuss about this match up, take this just as an introduction.
    This build is also doable against Zerg, but not dicussed here

    ZvT/P
    4/5 pool
    Spoiler
    Show

    The Rush by excellence. This is probably familiar to everyone that has heard something about SC. The only thing i'll discuss is the use of larva. There is no problem if you have 1 or 2 larvas idle in your hatchery if you are waiting for something. In this case you'll be saving up larva to build zerglings as soon as the pool finishes. The time it takes to build the pool allows you to sneak 1 or 2 drones, but never forget to leave the supply needed to fit in 3 zerglings with your first overlord.
    This is an all-in build, if your attack fails, you are most probably screwed. The 5 pool allows you re build faster if your attack does damage but doesn't kill the opponent.

    9 pool speedlings
    Spoiler
    Show
    9 pool
    8 drone (because when you build the pool you use a drone)
    9 overlord
    9 gas
    8 drone
    9 morph zerglings

    This build is to get early zerglings with speed which are great to harass, specially against Protoss. You should not lose the zerglings unless the damage done is worth it (like killing a bunch of workers). When the extractor builds, put 3 drones on gas, when you have reached 80 gas start pulling them back to minerals; when the 3 are done with their last round you should have 104 gas, just right to get the speed upgrade. Also note that around 13-15 supply (according if you made more lings, drones or saved larva) you will have enough to make another hatchery. It's a good idea to make it on your natural to have a quick access to a second gas which is really useful for Zerg.
    So this is a good build to get some harass done and secure a proper economy. Resume gas when you want to start teching.


    TvZ
    8 barrack
    Spoiler
    Show
    8 barrack
    10 supply

    This sacrifices some economy to get a faster marine. This build is great to go for a bunker rush against a fast expanding zerg. You will have some spare minerals after your first marine that you can use for another barrack for a hardcore rush, or for gas to get a fast factory and surprise the Zerg with some tech after a rush, namely running a vulture into his main (past the sunken that will probably be in his natural). Also, if the map allows it, build the factory near his base and float it into a part of his main that he doesn't has vision. Good ideas is to follow this with a starport for some wraith harass.

    TvP
    Fast Factory
    Spoiler
    Show
    8 supply
    10 barrack
    11/12 gas
    15 factory
    17 supply

    You will be building some marines to deal with the probe that will be scouting and harassing in your base and also to repel the first Dragoon that comes to molest your base. When the factory is done immediately do the add-on and build a tank. After this you can choose what to do: get the siege upgrade for a fast expansion, get a starport to go for a surprise drop (4 vultures with mines or 2 tanks with siege), get a second factory to go for a fast push or go for FD - Fake Double (Factory).
    FD involves researching mines as soon as your add-on is built together with the tank. Then you'll build 2 vultures, but as soon as your tank is done you come out with 5 marines, 2 scvs and a tank to push against the 2 Dragoons the Protoss would have. When you are reaching his base, your vultures should have catch up with your small push, the upgrade should be finished but also the P should have reinforcements coming. Now you place the mines near his base and go back to your own to do a safe fast expansion (since the Protoss doesn't have detection yet and can't go out without suiciding to mines).
    This build is also doable against Zerg, but not dicussed here
    Last edited by Winterwind; 2009-01-07 at 06:41 AM.
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    Default Re: GitP StarCraft 1: Brood War group (thread II)

    To provide some sense of continuity, here are the last couple of posts of the previous thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by PePe_QuiCoSE View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Leper_Kahn View Post
    It amazes me the number of very low level players who manage to make it upwards of 1300 points on iCCup. I play whoever joins my games even if they are D+ and there are times they rape, and there are times I wonder why they aren't D-. That doesn't show so much this season though. 0-5 still.
    Match picking. How else do you think i got to D+?
    Seriously, usually there is a skill difference in people playing "Python D" maps than the ones playing "motw" maps because chances go up that you'll meet people climbing up the ranks.

    @Slaanesh: Broodwar doesn't have a CD-Key (only original Starcraft), what did you meant? The actual CD?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zakama View Post
    Best mech build vs Zerg I think I've ever pulled off: http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=6878
    Nice timing for the vult upgrades. I'd recommend making more factories instead of queueing units, it's more demanding but it'll get you a lot more units.
    Also it's best to go for low hp zerg buildings: Spire is a great target (expensive and takes long to build and has really low HP), Spawning Pool is good too, Hydra Den not so much (builds fast) unless you are sure there is an upgrade going on (like Lurker or a Hydra speed/range since those take a while). Lair is really hard to take down with just vultures.
    Another thing i'd recommend is that if you know he has lurkers, send an SCV or scan ahead before moving your army, it could melt to spines.



    On choosing race, yeah, play them until you start liking one more over the others.
    Quote Originally Posted by Winterwind View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kopaka View Post
    EDIT: And I STILL don't know what race im best at (or even which one is my favorite...)
    My advice on how to decide which race to play would be, watch a few replays with various match-ups and pay attention to whom you find yourself cheering for the most. That's the race you should go for.

    Quote Originally Posted by lordofthe_wog View Post
    I feel like I'm showing up a little late to the party, but any chance I could join up? My Battle.net name is the same as my forum name, lordofthe_wog.
    Why, of course! Welcome to the group, make yourself at home!

    Quote Originally Posted by kopaka View Post
    Hey, isn't anyone other than Zakama going to give me reasons to play their favorite race? Any takers?
    Hmmm... okay, a rough breakdown of the reasons speaking for the respective races:

    Terrans: Very solid, nigh unbreakable defense which cannot be broken down without a massive advantage in numbers. Great ease of scouting via comsat. Can survive on less expansions than the other two races require. The Terran advance may be slow, but very difficult to stop once a critical number of units has been amassed.

    Zerg: Great ease of switching between completely different army compositions at will, making it easier to adapt your strategy or surprise the enemy with something unexpected. Usually find it easier to expand than the other races. Tend to maintain superior map control and keep the initiative in the game. Once the Zerg has enough expansions, they can usually neglect micro almost entirely and focus on sending a never-ending stream of units into the enemy base; if the opponents allowed the Zerg to reach this stage, it becomes almost impossible for the Zerg to lose.

    Protoss: Very powerful units which most of the time do not die instantly and which, with their smaller numbers, make micro both easier and more effective. Have a lot of variety in their playstyle, as they find themselves in either the defensive or the offensive role depending on the match-up. There are few things as satisfying as seeing a psi storm or two turn literally dozens of enemy units into small red puddles. In team games, zealots tend to be one of the most effective units there is.

    Quote Originally Posted by kopaka View Post
    Hey, LOT wog. Noob like me? I'm looking for an even game (i feel crushed. my first game was agains Winterwind...)
    Hey, I'm not that bad that losing against me was a reason for feeling crushed!

    Quote Originally Posted by kopaka View Post
    Anyway, welcome to the group. I just joined recently too, and i am way too overenthusiastic for my own good.
    Preserve that enthusiasm. Confidence and optimism are some of the most important things for playing well - they prevent one from getting passive and motivate to trying daring manouvers.

    Quote Originally Posted by FF fanboy View Post
    Also, WA-Vampire is the name. SC is my game.
    Duly noted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slaanesh View Post
    I found my broodwar CD key!
    I'm as confused as Yak; what CD key?
    Still, whatever you found that helps you play with us, awesome.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slaanesh View Post
    For SC, does this group like playing custom(Or use map settings) or melee, or a mixture of both?
    Mixture; we routinely have to split into two or three games due to our numbers, so there are pretty much always some playing UMSs and some playing melee.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raroy View Post
    Another day, another noob owning a bigger noob. That zerg just let you do whatever wanted in his base, probably because he forgot ovies had detection. Yeah so, I think you should of taken out the spawning pool and the spire first. Mass lings at the right time >mech. Muta ling at the right time is annoying. I think he expected standard play when you were blocking so the vult drop could of dumbfounded him. "Lol, i'm lettin your men in mah base for five mins!" When faced with an opponent who doesn't care about reinforcing their main base (might be aiming at a big push) you could just reinforce the base destruction some more, ruining his tech. Also, take a chance at ovie sniping with two wraiths, it's fun, and wastes larva.

    Anyway, why not post a graceful loss?
    Quote Originally Posted by PePe_QuiCoSE View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Raroy View Post
    Another day, another noob owning a bigger noob.
    That can be said for any member of this group.
    But, quoting a posthumously Joker: "Why so serious?" Zak was just sharing a game he enjoyed playing, wasn't really asking for advice or telling us how cool his "new" strategy was. I though it was a better idea to throw in tips on what to improve other than noticing the obvious shortcomings of his opponent.
    Anyway, why not post a graceful loss?
    I guess this is more of a rhetoric question, but pointing out the obvious, it's really hard to be proud of games you lost. Usually you do that when asking for advice in what you did wrong, and a dedicated Starcraft forum is a much better place for that than one of a stick figures webcomic parody of D&D.
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    Default Re: GitP StarCraft 1: Brood War group (thread II)

    New thread! We HAVE come a long way...

    *high fives people*
    Avatar by Balford. Props dude.
    Quote Originally Posted by Winterwind View Post
    Ooooh, Zak is back!
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    Default Re: GitP StarCraft 1: Brood War group (thread II)

    And i just got here. i feel like such a noob...wait, oh yeah, that's right
    Last edited by Khaeta; 2009-01-05 at 05:19 PM.
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    Default Re: GitP StarCraft 1: Brood War group (thread II)

    First, WW, would you mind correcting my Bnet name?

    Also, all those referances to a BW CD key, sorry for the confusion, I meant SC's CD key AND Brood wars' disk.
    trill in da playground

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    Default Re: GitP StarCraft 1: Brood War group (thread II)

    Wat? Thread II. Omg I'm all confused now.

    *takes a few days to find his way back home to the SC group*
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    Default Re: GitP StarCraft 1: Brood War group (thread II)

    Sorry I haven't been on the last few weeks, but since I had to reset my router, I haven't been able to play in games with more than one other person without experiencing massive lag.
    Since I am also unable to host, this has a tendency to limit my chances of actually getting a decent game, and I haven't bothered to come on because of this. I also haven't been terribly motivated to try and fix it, since all attempts so far have been futile, and I'm getting a new computer this week anyway.
    Once the new computer arrives, I'll make a concerted effort to fix things up and get back on- I've been missing Starcraft a lot.
    Just another souless construct out for world peace and harmony.

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    Default Re: GitP StarCraft 1: Brood War group (thread II)

    Hey, I'm not that bad that losing against me was a reason for feeling crushed!
    That's not what i meant, and you (should) know it.

    I have eliminated zerg. Much as my macro sucks, it is even worse as zerg.
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    Default Re: GitP StarCraft 1: Brood War group (thread II)

    Quote Originally Posted by Slaanesh View Post
    First, WW, would you mind correcting my Bnet name?
    Oh, right. Sorry about that. Fixed it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rigel Cyrosea View Post
    Sorry I haven't been on the last few weeks, but since I had to reset my router, I haven't been able to play in games with more than one other person without experiencing massive lag.
    Since I am also unable to host, this has a tendency to limit my chances of actually getting a decent game, and I haven't bothered to come on because of this. I also haven't been terribly motivated to try and fix it, since all attempts so far have been futile, and I'm getting a new computer this week anyway.
    Once the new computer arrives, I'll make a concerted effort to fix things up and get back on- I've been missing Starcraft a lot.
    I had been wondering where you had vanished to. I thought it was weird how you went from being around always to never so suddenly.
    Here's to you working out these problems, then.

    Quote Originally Posted by kopaka View Post
    That's not what i meant, and you (should) know it.
    Of course I know that, kopaka. Hence the smiley.
    Last edited by Winterwind; 2009-01-05 at 06:58 PM.
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    Default Re: GitP StarCraft 1: Brood War group (thread II)

    LK beat the crap out of me in our game. Though i did get one of his base(s).

    I had to leave early that time though.
    Not wearing your seat belt? See you soon!
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    This is perhaps the most amazing idea I have heard in eons. Thank you kind slayer of Death.

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    Default Re: GitP StarCraft 1: Brood War group (thread II)

    Quote Originally Posted by deathslayer7 View Post
    LK beat the crap out of me in our game. Though i did get one of his base(s).

    I had to leave early that time though.
    It was a fun game! I certainly hope you enjoyed it as well, and continue to show up.

    By the way I'm bored so I'm working on a zerg guide. (Will come out in parts. After reading the first to sections it seems very biased toward a Zerg ultimate power that "YOU" can never have... I hope that's just me. )

    EDIT: I think this guide is done. Winterwind if you wouldn't mind adding it to the first post.

    Playing Zerg: A Beginners Guide

    Part I: What is Zerg
    Zerg is every unstoppable primal alien force, Zerg is every zombie infestation, but most of all Zerg is paradox.

    The population ever perpetuated, Zerg can out wait even the most patient of foes for the perfect opportunity to strike. The population ever scarce, Zerg is the unstoppable lust for outright destruction of the enemy. Pure in essence, Zerg are the ultimate destroyers. Pure in essence, Zerg are the ultimate creators. Stronger than all, Zerg overpowers their foes. Feebler than all, Zerg cannot touch the enemy.

    Part II: Caution Zerg Working
    Zerg requires, possibly more than any other race in Starcraft, a state of mind particular to the race. Terran and Protoss most often operate in a "ball;" a sort of hand coming out of the the body, where the body represents the main of the player. Zerg does this as well. In fact, as the game progresses Zerg emulates this function more and more. However, Zerg doesn't just use their hand. Zerg must use a foot, a knee, or perhaps a tentacle to get their job done. This is why newer players find Zerg so challenging.

    Part III: Important Gameplay Concepts
    Flanking: This is one of the most important aspects of a Zerg army. In Zerg versus Terran Zerg can hardly even approach the Terran without a flank. Ultimately, flanking increases the damage the Zerg army does and decreases the amount of damage the Zerg army takes.

    Drone to Army Ratio: Unlike other races Zerg cannot constantly produce workers. The mechanics of hatcheries are such that you either need to be producing drones OR fighting units. Learning when to make drones versus army comes with time, but generally use this philosophy: When the enemy has few forces and is unlikely to attack you make drones. When the enemy has many forces and is likely to attack you OR you are trying to attack him/her make attacking units.

    Constantly Make Units: Zerg can save up larva and produce many units at the same time. DO NOT DO THIS! There are times when it is important to save larva, but DO NOT save larva for a reason other than the design of a build order. For example: With the build 9 Spawning Pool saving larva for Zerglings, or 2 Hatchery Mutalisks when saving for the Spire to finish.

    Expanding: Zerg is expansion hungry. In every match up you need more expansions than the opposing player if you expect to win. (Somewhat of an exception for Zerg versus Zerg.) However, you can't simply send out a drone and expand. Just like when producing drones it is best to expand when you don't expect the enemy to attempt to attack you.

    Backstabbing: Now, don't always backstab, but there are times, often in the early game, when you can send a control group of zerglings behind the enemy army that just moved out of his/her base. If you can get Zerglings, Lurkers, or even Mutalisks in an enemy's worker line you can wreak serious havoc.

    Macro: Macro, Macro, Macro... (Macro.) Keep making units. Keep your minerals and gas low. This is the most important thing for a player your level.

    Use your head: Seriously... This is the MOST important part of playing Starcraft. Don't ever just play without your mind involved. It's very easy to fall into a computer-esk playing style especially when you play often. It's always good to remind yourself to use your head.

    Part IV: Macro Tips
    Hotkey Suggestion: 1-4 Army, 5-0 Hatcheries

    Make Units: Keep making units... Just do it! KEEP MAKING UNITS!

    Hatchery Placement: Put Hatcheries in places where they won't block your units, but will block enemy units from making a quick run-by into your main base.

    Rally Point: The best place for a rally point is either right outside your choke point, or right inside it. This gives easy access to the rest of your base, and easy access to the outside world.

    Part V: Micro Tips
    Stacking Mutalisks: Put your Mutalisks in a control group with an Overlord or a Larva. Watch out for sending your Overlord into hostile territory.

    Hotkey Tips: I use 1-3 for Zerglings and 4 for Lurkers in a Lurker-Ling build. I use 1-2 for Zerglings and 3-4 for Hydralisks in a Zergling-Hydralisk build. I use 1-3 for Hydralisks and 4 for Lurkers in a Hydra Lurker build. I use 1 for Mutalisks when harassing (WITH AN OVERLORD) and 2 for the same Mutalisks (WITHOUT THE OVERLORD).

    Part V: Common Build Orders
    Zerg versus Terran:
    2 Hatchery Mutalisks:
    9 Overlord
    11 Scout
    12 Hatchery
    11 Pool
    10 Gas
    2-4 Zerglings
    16 Overlord
    Lair
    Zergling speed
    Have a total of 8-10 Zerglings
    When Lair finishes make Spire
    When Lair finishes make another Extractor
    Continue making units until the Spire is @ 400 HP. The moment the spire hits 400 HP you need to have (At each hatchery) 1 larva and 1 overlord just starting to morph. Do not make units until the spire finishes.
    When Spire finishes make 6 Mutalisks at the same time.

    Zerg versus Protoss:
    4 Hatchery Hydralisk:
    9 Overlord
    11 Scout
    12 hatchery
    11 pool
    14 hatchery
    15 extractor
    18 hatchery
    17 Hydra Den
    Get Hydra speed as soon as the Hydra Den finishes
    Make a ton of Hydralisks
    Get Hydra range as soon Hydra speed finishes

    Zerg versus Zerg:
    1 Hatch Mutalisk:
    9 Spawning Pool
    8 Drone
    9 Gas
    8 Drone
    9 Overlord
    Lair
    When Lair finishes make a Spire
    Continue making units until the Spire is @ 400 HP. The moment the spire hits 400 HP you need to have (At each hatchery) 1 larva and 1 overlord just starting to morph. Do not make units until the spire finishes.
    When Spire finishes make 3 Mutalisks at the same time.

    Yakkul's Build Orders
    Here are some helpful build order compiled by none other than our very own Yakkul!

    Quote Originally Posted by PePe_QuiCoSE View Post
    Ok, i'll add some well known BO just for reference.

    As a personal note, I'd recommend to start with melee going for cheese builds or rushes. This will make shorter games and will push you to learn how to micro, how to scout and a bit of multitasking. Not everyone will agree with this but the idea behind is that the longer the games goes on, the more probable that the better player will win the game because he has been more efficient than his opponent for a longer period of time thus being able to get back from a serious set back.
    I also wouldn't recommend to try to copy progamers BO without really studying them. Thing is, a lot of Builds they do can't be executed if you don't have the necessary micro or timing. For example: nowadays every Protoss (and Terrans too) goes Fast Expansion against Zerg for several reasons. But FE took a long time to develop to be truly safe and it's easily abusable by Zerg if it's not done perfectly. It's really frustrating to be building your second zealot behind your 2 cannons when 12 hydras break into your natural.

    Ok, Build Orders:

    PvZ
    9/9 gate
    Spoiler
    Show
    7 pylon
    9 gateway
    9 gateway

    you have to make the pylon before the 8th probe. Then you make 2 more and stop to make gateways. After this you start producing zealots none stop sneaking a probe here and there. Don't forget to make your 2nd pylon when you are around the 15 psy.
    This is a pretty all-in strategy: if your attack fails you'll probably be behind in economy. Specially if you do a proxy. This means making the pylon and the gateways outside your main base and near the opponent's base or in the middle of the map (so the zealots arrive faster to the enemy base). For this take your 6th probe and send it out. When it arrives to the place you want the gates placed you should already have the 7th probe and 100 minerals for the pylon.
    Another variant is to make a brief attack and go back to normal. Only make the first 3 zealots for a pressure attack and trying to do some damage and then resume probe production and get some tech.
    All of this works quite well if the Zerg went for a fast expansion. If the zerg went for a 9 pool or overpool block your ramp and take it up from there.

    10/12 gate
    Spoiler
    Show
    8 pylon
    10 gate
    12 gate

    pretty simple and straight forward. You get early zealots for some pressure or to block your ramp but you don't hurt your economy as you get probes non-stop. It's almost always good to attack (specially against a fast expansion) but you'll rarely be able to kill the zerg. Do some damage and know when to go back to your base.

    PvT
    1 gate tech
    Spoiler
    Show

    8 pylon
    10 gate
    11/12 assimilator
    13/14 cybernetics core

    The 11/12 is just clear up that you should make this as soon as you have the money; depending on how the minerals are placed around the Nexus it'll be a bit faster or slower.
    The idea here is to rush to Dragoons. From there you can choose to get another gate for more dragoons, Dragoon range (it makes Dragoons a lot better), go Robotics Bay to get observers (as Terran's usually do a fast research of mines) or a Citadel of Adun (and later Templar Archives) to get fast Dark Templars. You can do this because Terran's will be rushing to Factory because they are a lot better against Protoss. There is a lot to discuss about this match up, take this just as an introduction.
    This build is also doable against Zerg, but not dicussed here

    ZvT/P
    4/5 pool
    Spoiler
    Show

    The Rush by excellence. This is probably familiar to everyone that has heard something about SC. The only thing i'll discuss is the use of larva. There is no problem if you have 1 or 2 larvas idle in your hatchery if you are waiting for something. In this case you'll be saving up larva to build zerglings as soon as the pool finishes. The time it takes to build the pool allows you to sneak 1 or 2 drones, but never forget to leave the supply needed to fit in 3 zerglings with your first overlord.
    This is an all-in build, if your attack fails, you are most probably screwed. The 5 pool allows you re build faster if your attack does damage but doesn't kill the opponent.

    9 pool speedlings
    Spoiler
    Show
    9 pool
    8 drone (because when you build the pool you use a drone)
    9 overlord
    9 gas
    8 drone
    9 morph zerglings

    This build is to get early zerglings with speed which are great to harass, specially against Protoss. You should not lose the zerglings unless the damage done is worth it (like killing a bunch of workers). When the extractor builds, put 3 drones on gas, when you have reached 80 gas start pulling them back to minerals; when the 3 are done with their last round you should have 104 gas, just right to get the speed upgrade. Also note that around 13-15 supply (according if you made more lings, drones or saved larva) you will have enough to make another hatchery. It's a good idea to make it on your natural to have a quick access to a second gas which is really useful for Zerg.
    So this is a good build to get some harass done and secure a proper economy. Resume gas when you want to start teching.


    TvZ
    8 barrack
    Spoiler
    Show
    8 barrack
    10 supply

    This sacrifices some economy to get a faster marine. This build is great to go for a bunker rush against a fast expanding zerg. You will have some spare minerals after your first marine that you can use for another barrack for a hardcore rush, or for gas to get a fast factory and surprise the Zerg with some tech after a rush, namely running a vulture into his main (past the sunken that will probably be in his natural). Also, if the map allows it, build the factory near his base and float it into a part of his main that he doesn't has vision. Good ideas is to follow this with a starport for some wraith harass.

    TvP
    Fast Factory
    Spoiler
    Show
    8 supply
    10 barrack
    11/12 gas
    15 factory
    17 supply

    You will be building some marines to deal with the probe that will be scouting and harassing in your base and also to repel the first Dragoon that comes to molest your base. When the factory is done immediately do the add-on and build a tank. After this you can choose what to do: get the siege upgrade for a fast expansion, get a starport to go for a surprise drop (4 vultures with mines or 2 tanks with siege), get a second factory to go for a fast push or go for FD - Fake Double (Factory).
    FD involves researching mines as soon as your add-on is built together with the tank. Then you'll build 2 vultures, but as soon as your tank is done you come out with 5 marines, 2 scvs and a tank to push against the 2 Dragoons the Protoss would have. When you are reaching his base, your vultures should have catch up with your small push, the upgrade should be finished but also the P should have reinforcements coming. Now you place the mines near his base and go back to your own to do a safe fast expansion (since the Protoss doesn't have detection yet and can't go out without suiciding to mines).
    This build is also doable against Zerg, but not dicussed here
    Last edited by Leper_Kahn; 2009-01-07 at 03:00 AM.
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  13. - Top - End - #13
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    Default Re: GitP StarCraft 1: Brood War group (thread II)

    Quote Originally Posted by Winterwind View Post
    Of course I know that, kopaka. Hence the smiley.
    And modest too!

    EDIT: Also, take note: Having watched a Bisu/Jaedong match (holy crap!), you may consider me a khala convert. for the time being, at least, i will play as the mighty warriors of Aiur.
    Last edited by Khaeta; 2009-01-05 at 09:55 PM.
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    Default Re: GitP StarCraft 1: Brood War group (thread II)

    Quote Originally Posted by kopaka View Post
    And modest too!

    EDIT: Also, take note: Having watched a Bisu/Jaedong match (holy crap!), you may consider me a khala convert. for the time being, at least, i will play as the mighty warriors of Aiur.
    Okay, okay, but... Have you watched any Flash or Boxer games?

    Seriously though, if you wanna play Protoss that's okay. One thing that matters for any race though, LEARN SOME BUILD ORDERS. It took LK far too long to convince me to do this, and now that I have my game has improved.
    Avatar by Balford. Props dude.
    Quote Originally Posted by Winterwind View Post
    Ooooh, Zak is back!
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    Death Knight by Threeshades, Werewolf Knight by boomwolf


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    Default Re: GitP StarCraft 1: Brood War group (thread II)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zakama View Post
    Seriously though, if you wanna play Protoss that's okay. One thing that matters for any race though, LEARN SOME BUILD ORDERS. It took LK far too long to convince me to do this, and now that I have my game has improved.
    yeah, i need to do that. any suggestions of sites i can learn these that will talk in normal english? i can only take so much SC slang...
    Last edited by Khaeta; 2009-01-05 at 10:13 PM.
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    Default Re: GitP StarCraft 1: Brood War group (thread II)

    check the links provided in the first post.
    Btw, when you read something like "8 barrack" it means that when you have 8 population (usually 8 workers) you have to make the barrack. It's pretty intuitive from that point.

    Some tips for newcomers:
    - Time is crucial so make the best out of every second. Staring at the screen looking what it's going on is a waste of time that could be used on something useful.
    - Learn to use hotkeys and ctrl keys, they make you play faster.
    Ctrl keys are assigned by choosing 1 building or a group of units and pressing ctrl-# (#=number). Then you can automatically reselect them pressing that number. Prerssing it twice will make you focus on that unit group or building.
    Hotkeys are for issuing commands directly with the keyboard instead of the mouse. It's a lot faster to select your barrack pressing 1 and 'M' to build a marine than to scroll back to your base and select it with the mouse and then press the Marine icon.
    - Never stop producing SCV/Probes. With Zerg it varies but you'll be alternating between producing Drones and producing armies: when you know they won't attack you, produce Drones, otherwise produce fighting units.
    - Don't queue units in buildings productions because it's taking up resources you could use for something else.
    - Scout: gather as much information possible from what your opponent is doing and react accordingly.
    - Get a game plan. Don't only pick up a Build Order but know what you want to achieve with it. Going BC or Carriers straight from 1 base is a bad game plan because with only 1 gas it'll take too long to be able to build them. Focus your army according to the resources you have. Always, the more resources the bigger the army you can afford and in Starcraft quantity often makes up for quality.
    - Flank. Don't send your armies to fight in a straight line. 4 Zerglings can kill a zealot if they surround him and attack, but will get slaughtered if they fight him 1 by 1.
    - Try new things. This will prevent you from becoming predictable and learn by experience what is good and what not.
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    Default Re: GitP StarCraft 1: Brood War group (thread II)

    Quote Originally Posted by PePe_QuiCoSE View Post
    check the links provided in the first post.
    Btw, when you read something like "8 barrack" it means that when you have 8 population (usually 8 workers) you have to make the barrack. It's pretty intuitive from that point.
    To further clarify, it means "8 supply used up", not "you have 8 workers out there" - it's 7 workers and an eight one being built.
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    Default Re: GitP StarCraft 1: Brood War group (thread II)

    Ok, i'll add some well known BO just for reference.

    As a personal note, I'd recommend to start with melee going for cheese builds or rushes. This will make shorter games and will push you to learn how to micro, how to scout and a bit of multitasking. Not everyone will agree with this but the idea behind is that the longer the games goes on, the more probable that the better player will win the game because he has been more efficient than his opponent for a longer period of time thus being able to get back from a serious set back.
    I also wouldn't recommend to try to copy progamers BO without really studying them. Thing is, a lot of Builds they do can't be executed if you don't have the necessary micro or timing. For example: nowadays every Protoss (and Terrans too) goes Fast Expansion against Zerg for several reasons. But FE took a long time to develop to be truly safe and it's easily abusable by Zerg if it's not done perfectly. It's really frustrating to be building your second zealot behind your 2 cannons when 12 hydras break into your natural.

    Ok, Build Orders:

    PvZ
    9/9 gate
    Spoiler
    Show
    7 pylon
    9 gateway
    9 gateway

    you have to make the pylon before the 8th probe. Then you make 2 more and stop to make gateways. After this you start producing zealots none stop sneaking a probe here and there. Don't forget to make your 2nd pylon when you are around the 15 psy.
    This is a pretty all-in strategy: if your attack fails you'll probably be behind in economy. Specially if you do a proxy. This means making the pylon and the gateways outside your main base and near the opponent's base or in the middle of the map (so the zealots arrive faster to the enemy base). For this take your 6th probe and send it out. When it arrives to the place you want the gates placed you should already have the 7th probe and 100 minerals for the pylon.
    Another variant is to make a brief attack and go back to normal. Only make the first 3 zealots for a pressure attack and trying to do some damage and then resume probe production and get some tech.
    All of this works quite well if the Zerg went for a fast expansion. If the zerg went for a 9 pool or overpool block your ramp and take it up from there.

    10/12 gate
    Spoiler
    Show
    8 pylon
    10 gate
    12 gate

    pretty simple and straight forward. You get early zealots for some pressure or to block your ramp but you don't hurt your economy as you get probes non-stop. It's almost always good to attack (specially against a fast expansion) but you'll rarely be able to kill the zerg. Do some damage and know when to go back to your base.

    PvT
    1 gate tech
    Spoiler
    Show

    8 pylon
    10 gate
    11/12 assimilator
    13/14 cybernetics core

    The 11/12 is just clear up that you should make this as soon as you have the money; depending on how the minerals are placed around the Nexus it'll be a bit faster or slower.
    The idea here is to rush to Dragoons. From there you can choose to get another gate for more dragoons, Dragoon range (it makes Dragoons a lot better), go Robotics Bay to get observers (as Terran's usually do a fast research of mines) or a Citadel of Adun (and later Templar Archives) to get fast Dark Templars. You can do this because Terran's will be rushing to Factory because they are a lot better against Protoss. There is a lot to discuss about this match up, take this just as an introduction.
    This build is also doable against Zerg, but not dicussed here

    ZvT/P
    4/5 pool
    Spoiler
    Show

    The Rush by excellence. This is probably familiar to everyone that has heard something about SC. The only thing i'll discuss is the use of larva. There is no problem if you have 1 or 2 larvas idle in your hatchery if you are waiting for something. In this case you'll be saving up larva to build zerglings as soon as the pool finishes. The time it takes to build the pool allows you to sneak 1 or 2 drones, but never forget to leave the supply needed to fit in 3 zerglings with your first overlord.
    This is an all-in build, if your attack fails, you are most probably screwed. The 5 pool allows you re build faster if your attack does damage but doesn't kill the opponent.

    9 pool speedlings
    Spoiler
    Show
    9 pool
    8 drone (because when you build the pool you use a drone)
    9 overlord
    9 gas
    8 drone
    9 morph zerglings

    This build is to get early zerglings with speed which are great to harass, specially against Protoss. You should not lose the zerglings unless the damage done is worth it (like killing a bunch of workers). When the extractor builds, put 3 drones on gas, when you have reached 80 gas start pulling them back to minerals; when the 3 are done with their last round you should have 104 gas, just right to get the speed upgrade. Also note that around 13-15 supply (according if you made more lings, drones or saved larva) you will have enough to make another hatchery. It's a good idea to make it on your natural to have a quick access to a second gas which is really useful for Zerg.
    So this is a good build to get some harass done and secure a proper economy. Resume gas when you want to start teching.


    TvZ
    8 barrack
    Spoiler
    Show
    8 barrack
    10 supply

    This sacrifices some economy to get a faster marine. This build is great to go for a bunker rush against a fast expanding zerg. You will have some spare minerals after your first marine that you can use for another barrack for a hardcore rush, or for gas to get a fast factory and surprise the Zerg with some tech after a rush, namely running a vulture into his main (past the sunken that will probably be in his natural). Also, if the map allows it, build the factory near his base and float it into a part of his main that he doesn't has vision. Good ideas is to follow this with a starport for some wraith harass.

    TvP
    Fast Factory
    Spoiler
    Show
    8 supply
    10 barrack
    11/12 gas
    15 factory
    17 supply

    You will be building some marines to deal with the probe that will be scouting and harassing in your base and also to repel the first Dragoon that comes to molest your base. When the factory is done immediately do the add-on and build a tank. After this you can choose what to do: get the siege upgrade for a fast expansion, get a starport to go for a surprise drop (4 vultures with mines or 2 tanks with siege), get a second factory to go for a fast push or go for FD - Fake Double (Factory).
    FD involves researching mines as soon as your add-on is built together with the tank. Then you'll build 2 vultures, but as soon as your tank is done you come out with 5 marines, 2 scvs and a tank to push against the 2 Dragoons the Protoss would have. When you are reaching his base, your vultures should have catch up with your small push, the upgrade should be finished but also the P should have reinforcements coming. Now you place the mines near his base and go back to your own to do a safe fast expansion (since the Protoss doesn't have detection yet and can't go out without suiciding to mines).
    This build is also doable against Zerg, but not dicussed here
    Last edited by PePe QuiCoSE; 2009-01-06 at 05:31 PM.
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    Default Re: GitP StarCraft 1: Brood War group (thread II)

    thanks! i feel so popular
    Last edited by Khaeta; 2009-01-06 at 04:07 PM.
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    Default Re: GitP StarCraft 1: Brood War group (thread II)

    I forget, do you play on iCCup, Kopaka? You'll need to downgrade to 1.15.3 to play there until Blizzard fixes 1.16, but it's really not hard to switch.
    Avatar by Balford. Props dude.
    Quote Originally Posted by Winterwind View Post
    Ooooh, Zak is back!
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    Death Knight by Threeshades, Werewolf Knight by boomwolf


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    Default Re: GitP StarCraft 1: Brood War group (thread II)

    No, i don't (not right now, anyway). I figure I need to build up self esteem before i can lose it...
    Last edited by Khaeta; 2009-01-06 at 05:18 PM.
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    Default Re: GitP StarCraft 1: Brood War group (thread II)

    Or you could just be like me and see how quickly you can get to 0 points!
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    Default Re: GitP StarCraft 1: Brood War group (thread II)

    yeah, well, i need to beat at least SOMEONE in the group before i join the ladder that (apparently) is better than MOST of the group
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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: GitP StarCraft 1: Brood War group (thread II)

    Iccup is maybe not the perfect place to start out on build orders and general strategy

    But it IS the best place to improve.

    Oh and Yak, you mention FD but not siege expo? It's waaaay easier and safer for someone who is starting out

    And I'm pretty sure 4/5/9 pool is not a PvT Build

    Talking about ICC, I think it would be a good idea, I'm pretty sure the link in the OP for Iccup maps is outdated, since the site change. But I can't be sure, Lab blocks iccup
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    Default Re: GitP StarCraft 1: Brood War group (thread II)

    4/5/9 pool? A good PvT game to play

    Although, the best one is obviously 5/7/pool/9/hydra/11/spire/17/ultra/23/gspire/30/defiler/57/barracks/72/mass BCs
    Last edited by Deepblue706; 2009-01-06 at 05:30 PM.

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    Default Re: GitP StarCraft 1: Brood War group (thread II)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cynan Machae View Post
    Iccup is maybe not the perfect place to start out on build orders and general strategy

    But it IS the best place to improve.
    Agree. Even if you do try searching for the lowest ranked games (that would be D-). It's far better to start in battle.net melee games.

    Oh and Yak, you mention FD but not siege expo? It's waaaay easier and safer for someone who is starting out
    Yeah, i was focusing on builds that had early game action. P has 100 ways to abuse a poorly executed FE.

    And I'm pretty sure 4/5/9 pool is not a PvT Build
    Yeah, fixed though, i took it like it was way too obvious to make the distinction.

    Talking about ICC, I think it would be a good idea, I'm pretty sure the link in the OP for Iccup maps is outdated, since the site change. But I can't be sure, Lab blocks iccup
    This is the download page and this is the latest map pack.

    This is a quick guide on how to join ICCup.
    It boils down to 1) have 1.15.3 2) register on their site 2) download and install launcher . Everything can be solved through their site.
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    Default Re: GitP StarCraft 1: Brood War group (thread II)

    Hi, I play SC, and I suck major at it. Most specifically, epic phail on macro.

    In general, I like to start out 8barracks/gateway/pool, simply because more resource = win. From there, however, I don't generally have a good build order.

    Also, I see people talking about units that I almost never bother with, which I am beginning to think is a mistake. In particular, I never bother with Vultures. I see them as a waste of time and resources compared to an equal amount of marines, and save on the gas. Or, if vs Zerg, get some bats out to stave off the zergling swarms.

    I try to not turtle, but at the same time, I'm probably not as aggressive as I can be. I do find that 2x Goliaths + 1x Tank (in siege mode) = very annoying harassment force.

    I also tend to 'leapfrog defenses'. Which is to say, set up a couple of bunkers and a turret. Drop marines in said bunkers. Build more bunkers in another choke point up ahead, move marines to said bunkers while building turret. Rinse, wash, repeat, for as long as I've got choke points to play with. Move tank or two up and drop in siege mode behind most recent iteration of bunkers.

    Considering I do poorly on comp-stomp, I'm not nearly ready for PvP. Where would some good resources be for tips that even a newbie like myself can understand?
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    Default Re: GitP StarCraft 1: Brood War group (thread II)

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    Hi, I play SC
    Great! Welcome to the group! As to tips... I'd first suggest showing up at a Saturday meet. You'll get lots of feedback there. In the mean time the first post has some good places to look. Teamliquid.net and gosugamers.com might be the best places to start.

    Speaking of the first post... I thought I'd just post to say my guide is pretty much finished Winter if you wouldn't mind adding it to the first post. <.<
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    Default Re: GitP StarCraft 1: Brood War group (thread II)

    does anyone go on other then on saturdays?

    because i'm usually on west most of the time, so if someone wants to play me, we can.
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    Default Re: GitP StarCraft 1: Brood War group (thread II)

    Some juicy SC2 info: http://www.sc2armory.com/forums/topic/4328/

    Quote Originally Posted by Dustin Browder
    We're doing our best to make sure our missions give players new and unique experiences, so we're viewing each mission as its own special mini-game. We don't want to give away too many surprises, but we can tell you that one of the missions will have you doing a series of train robberies. How that exactly plays out, you'll have to wait and see, but we're having a lot of fun putting these ideas into practice.
    :O

    On another note, I found these sites, freeventriloserver.com/ and freeteamspeakservers.com/. You only get the server for 8 hours, but we could hypothetically set one up before each session.
    Last edited by Zakama; 2009-01-07 at 05:23 AM.
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