(3.5e) Marshal, Marshal, Marshal!!!!

[ALOR]

Greetings all.
In a new campaign we have started I've decided to play a Paladin/Marshal. There are plenty of nifty things in the various books for Paladins but not so much for Marshal. I was just wondering if any one knew of any feats/prestige classes / other with the Marshal class in mind. Home brewed stuff will be fine as well for me to look at for ideas . Not really lookin for power here just looking at options.
Thanks in advance,
Alor

edit: corrected my stupidity on spelling.

[JaxGaret]

Marshal, not Martial.

[Keld Denar]

I hope you mean Marshal, like, from the Mini Handbook?

Marshal is a class that is exactly 3 levels long. Its just not good. 1-2 levels are typical, with a 3rd being there if you REALLY want it. The problem is that Major Auras just arn't good enough to be really worth it. Minor Auras, on the other hand, are pretty decent, especially the oft mentioned Motivate Dex, which adds +cha to init checks, among other things, and Art of War + Motivate Str to turbo boost trip checks.

Then again, Paladin is a class that is typically no more than 6 levels long, often no more than 4, and regularly only 2.

So, you've got 9 levels TOPS planned out. What else are you gonna do with those other 11 levels? I'd suggest Crusader, a real Martial (Adept).

[ALOR]

Marshal, not Martial.

And so it is. Spelling is not my strong suit.

[ALOR]

I hope you mean Marshal, like, from the Mini Handbook?

Marshal is a class that is exactly 3 levels long. Its just not good. 1-2 levels are typical, with a 3rd being there if you REALLY want it. The problem is that Major Auras just arn't good enough to be really worth it. Minor Auras, on the other hand, are pretty decent, especially the oft mentioned Motivate Dex, which adds +cha to init checks, among other things, and Art of War + Motivate Str to turbo boost trip checks.

Then again, Paladin is a class that is typically no more than 6 levels long, often no more than 4, and regularly only 2.

So, you've got 9 levels TOPS planned out. What else are you gonna do with those other 11 levels? I'd suggest Crusader, a real Martial (Adept).

Yeah I know there are more powerful class's and builds out there. This characters father is a combat beast. My concept is to go more for a great leader of men rather than a great ripper of flesh. I was just wondering if anyone out there had done any further development of the Marshal class or maybe even a prestige class for marshals and paladins if i was really lucky.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

Hmmm...Tempest Stormwind, over on the WotC boards did a great revision of the Marshal class using the Book of Nine Swords. The result is a well built, leader-type class who is helpful to have around for more than just his small bonuses. I'd check that out if you can find it.

[FMArthur]

The problem is that there really isn't anything there for you in marshal. There's "not going for power", and then there's "purposefully crippling myself for no real reason". If you look into the Tome of Battle, the Crusader class is exactly what you want. Focusing on the White Raven discipline will get you very good battle leader-type abilities, and you can also use maneuvers from the Devoted Spirit discipline for Paladin-esque abililties.

[Keld Denar]

For full BAB martial cha based fun, you could do a Pal4/Crusader1/RKV10 base. Lots of use for a high cha, and with Battle Blessings, you can cast 2 spells a round and still get to attack. Granted, they are only paladin spells, but some of those are decent, like Righteous Fury and Rhino's Rush. Alternately, you could take Sword of the Arcane Order to net a couple of neato Wizard spells on your list, like Whirling Blade.

Otherwise, for a real party inspirererer, play a Bard. There are lots more things that boost Bard's IC than Marshal's Auras. Or even play both. Play a Bardsader with Song of the White Raven, to be a holy buttkicker who boosts his allies with IC while directing them with WRT and Wolf Pack Tactics and whatnot. Nab Clarion Commander and yell "PWNT" at people to make your party rogue wet himself for 10 rounds. Really, Marshal is bad, and almost all of its abilities are more easily duplicated by other classes, mostly Bard.

[RTGoodman]

Not to toot my own horn or anything, but I've got a Warleader Paladin variant that I posted a while back that basically combines the Paladin and Marshal classes. I haven't personally playtested it since I can never find DMs that allow homebrew stuff, but I know at least one person from the boards here used it and liked it pretty well. It's an option, I guess.

Otherwise, ToB's Crusader, as others said, is a good choice since it gets GREAT melee abilities AND useful buffing/leadership abilities. If you have access to ToB, either that or the excellent (homebrewed) Sublime Way Marshal is a good choice.


EDIT: By the way, don't post in the Warleader Paladin thread - it's been dead for ages and is DEFINITELY thread necromancy.

[Thanatos 51-50]

Play 4e, be a Warlord, and pick up the Paladin multiclass feat at first level.

Owait.
(Sorry, couldn't resist. Please take it as the joke it was intended to be.)

Anyway - since you specifically invited homebrew, I just came to plug a 3.5 base class I cobbled together a long time ago.

The Commander

Feel free to ridicule.

[Mando Knight]

Play 4e, be a Warlord, and pick up the Paladin multiclass feat at first level.

Unfortunately, this might actually a good idea, given that WotC actually bothered to make Warlord competent unlike its 3.5 predecessor... *facepalm*

[TempusCCK]

Man, I'm really sorry for you, asking for character options and getting a plethora of "marshal sucks, play x instead because it's better mechanically."

I understand, you have a character concept and you want your mechanics to match it, I feel for you entirely.

A general rule of thumb for homebrewing is decide what you want to be able to do, and then decide how the mechanics best reflect that. If you like some of the things that the Marshal does already, but feel that the auras aren't interesting enough for you, then I'd suggest maybe doubling some of the bonuses.

Another thing that would be neat for Marshals to do is to have auras that pretty much give people the benefits of some combat specific feats, for instance, you could have an aura that give you the benefit of Phalanx Fighting, the feat, so if you have a line of first level warriors using shields, they gain the extra defense without actually having the feat, because you're directing them...

Other good choices for feats that might be emulated in a neat manner using an aura:

Lunging Strike
Power Attack
Robilars Gambit
Improved Trip
Improved Toughness
Combat Reflexes

Just look at feats the might be tactical in nature, and see what ones might be really useful is applied en mass and give a whirl. That'd be super cool.

[Epinephrine]

Pure Marshal is a bit underwhelming, but it's doable - on the plus side, you can pick up LOTS of different auras, so you can help pretty much everyone on pretty much anything.

Legendary Leader is an ok prestige class (Heroes of Battle), it can add commander auras on top of your marshal auras. They're not super, but extra effects are candy. Also gives luck bonuses to saves, which stacks with the Divine Grace bonuses a paladin gets. A 5th level Legendary Leader can have two commander auras, on top of two marshal auras, so it's pretty handy.

[Keld Denar]

Hmmm, you could do fun things with say....a Goliath Marshal. Take EWP: Spiked Chain, Combat Expertese, and Improved Trip, and have both Art of War and Motivate Str running. By ECL7, level 6, assuming an 18 starting cha with a +2 item, and an 18 starting str after racials, you'd trip at:

4 (feat) +4 (str) + 10 (2x cha) +4 (size) = +22. Thats pretty strong. On a roll of 1, you'll have a 23, which will automatically trip any non-dwarf humanoid with a 16 str or less, since you have the larger mod to win ties.

Regardless, once you get the ability to have 2 minor auras up, there isn't much else the class can offer you. Sadly, thems the apples.

[monty]

I've made a couple of trip builds that do nasty things with a level of Marshal.

[Adumbration]

I think Legendary Leader prestige class from Heroes of Battle fits the bill.

[Curmudgeon]

I don't have the Miniatures Handbook, so I'm hoping that the online excerpt is the full information you need to play the class. It seems that the Marshal is a pretty good enabler for other party members. If you've got a coordinated party, class abilities like Grant Move Action could be quite spiffy. If you've got a Rogue with Spring Attack, or an archer with Shot on the Run you can let them use a full attack action in the middle of maneuvering with these feats. And of course a Scout will be kicking in full attacks with skirmish whenever you give them an extra move action.

If you're not making much use of the Paladin's special mount, you might consider the "stand fast" variant (from the web enhancement for Cityscape), which boosts allies in much the same manner as your Marshal abilities.

[Adumbration]

PHB II has also a variant that replaces Grant Move Action with a similar ability that grants Temporary HP.

[Draz74]

Don't forget that the Marshal has Variant rules to support it in the PHB II. Also some Marshal-specific magic items in the MIC. Particularly worthy of note is the Regalia of the Hero item set.

EDIT: Since I got ninja'd on the Marshal Variant, let me now also mention the Charging Smite and Healing Spirit variants for the Paladin, since you haven't mentioned any love for the Mount feature (and these variants, while not overpoweringly strong, are reasons to stay in the Paladin class past Level 5).

[Defiant]

Minor Auras, on the other hand, are pretty decent, especially the oft mentioned Motivate Dex, which adds +cha to init checks, among other things, and Art of War + Motivate Str to turbo boost trip checks.

Bonus to dexterity checks and dexterity-based skill checks. Is initiative one of those?

[Epinephrine]

Bonus to dexterity checks and dexterity-based skill checks. Is initiative one of those?

Indeed! :)

[monty]

Bonus to dexterity checks and dexterity-based skill checks. Is initiative one of those?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/ini...itiativeChecks

An initiative check is a Dexterity check.

[Defiant]

Next minor aura I'm taking is Dexterity

[Thurbane]

It took me a minute to get the thread title (very clever, BTW)...

Being an Aussie, this is what I always think of when I hear Marshal:

Don't forget that the Marshal has Variant rules to support it in the PHB II. Also some Marshal-specific magic items in the MIC. Particularly worthy of note is the Regalia of the Hero item set.

Also, the Rearguard Cape from the MiC is quite good.

[ALOR]

i just wanted to thank everyone for there advice. Not a big fan of the Bo9S but the sublime marshal is pretty sweet, i also really like the paladin with the martial abilities instead of spell casting. Also i completly forgot about the heroes of battle book and i own that so thank you for reminding me.
Thanks again everyone,
Alor

[Rei_Jin]

I'd have a look at the Dragon Magic book, it gives you some more options for Auras that you can take as feats to add to your existing ones. Might give you that edge you need to really turn the tide towards your allies.

[Person_Man]

Homebrew a synergy feat:

Devoted Leader

Requirements: Grant Move Action class ability, Lay on Hands class ability.

Benefits: Your Marshal and Paladin class levels stack to determine your Grant Move Action, Lay on Hands, and Remove Disease class abilities. For example, a Martial 4/Paladin 2 with this feat could grant 1 Move Action per day, could Lay on Hands as a 6th level Paladin, and could Remove Disease once per week.

In addition, as an Immediate action you may sacrifice a Grant Move Action or Remove Disease use to allow any ally effected by your Major Aura to re-roll a failed saving throw, using your modified Save bonus in place of their own if it is higher. You may effect multiple allies (including yourself) with a single use of this ability, however the re-roll must be from a single effect. For example, if two allies effected by your Major Aura failed a Reflex Save against a Fireball spell, you could sacrifice one use of your Grant Move Action ability to allow both of them to re-roll their failed Save, using your Reflex Save (modified by your Dex, Divine Grace, Minor Aura, items, etc).