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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Power Attack requires STR 13 (3.5)

    Power Attack
    Feat Prerequisites: STR 13.

    My Cleric have
    STR:12
    Belt of STR +2 -> giving a total STR14.


    Can my Cleric choose and use Power Attack?

  2. - Top - End - #2
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Power Attack requires STR 13 (3.5)

    Yes.

    - Giacomo

    PS: The moment the cleric looses the belt or the magic of the belt is dispelled/suppressed, he cannot use the feat power attack any longer (until the belt is recovered/become active again).

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Keld Denar's Avatar

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    Default Re: Power Attack requires STR 13 (3.5)

    The FAQ seconds this concept, if somene cares to look it up and cite it. I'd volunteer, but yea...websense > me.
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  4. - Top - End - #4
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Goblin

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    Default Re: Power Attack requires STR 13 (3.5)

    Depends on the GM. Using temporary or otherwise non-inherent effects to qualify for feats and prestige classes is always dodgy.
    If your DM approves (I wouldn't) he should strip you of the ability to use the feat, as well as any feats or prestige classes that depends on it, if your STR drops below 15 (such as if your belt gets stolen, destroyed, disjuncted, or if you end up in an antimagic field or the target of a dispel magic).

    That said, I don't think there is anything in the RAW as such that prevents it, just that the bookkeeping involved is more hassle than it's worth.

  5. - Top - End - #5
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    Kurald Galain's Avatar

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    Default Re: Power Attack requires STR 13 (3.5)

    An interesting question is why a partial-BAB class with subpar strength would want to use PA to begin with...
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  6. - Top - End - #6
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Power Attack requires STR 13 (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibli View Post
    Depends on the GM. Using temporary or otherwise non-inherent effects to qualify for feats and prestige classes is always dodgy.
    If your DM approves (I wouldn't) he should strip you of the ability to use the feat, as well as any feats or prestige classes that depends on it, if your STR drops below 15 (such as if your belt gets stolen, destroyed, disjuncted, or if you end up in an antimagic field or the target of a dispel magic).

    That said, I don't think there is anything in the RAW as such that prevents it, just that the bookkeeping involved is more hassle than it's worth.
    In my campaign, I ended up simplifying this to only check at feat selection, but to also require it to be a permanent bonus. The Barbarian decided to go on a personal quest to find a way to permanently switch her strength and charisma to get Epic Leadership, and then permanently switch them back afterwards to get her combat ability back.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Power Attack requires STR 13 (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by drevil View Post
    Power Attack
    Feat Prerequisites: STR 13.

    My Cleric have
    STR:12
    Belt of STR +2 -> giving a total STR14.


    Can my Cleric choose and use Power Attack?
    Short answer: yes.

    Slightly longer:

    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat. A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he or she gains the prerequisite.

    A character can’t use a feat if he or she has lost a prerequisite.
    A character is only required to "have an ability score," not to have an inherent ability score. Also, since losing a prereq means you lose the benefit of the feat, there's a system for preventing abuse of magic items and feat qualification.

    And yes, like Giacomo said, losing the belt or having it suppressed, or having your STR dropped below 13 via a ray of enfeeblement or some such would mean you cannot use Power Attack.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: Power Attack requires STR 13 (3.5)

    I've had this crop up a lot with druid PCs. There are often cases where a druid will qualify for a feat in one wild shape form, but not another.

    Since a high-enough level druid can stay wildshaped 24/7, it's not really an issue, but it does raise the question of exactly how long it takes to level. I think 1e and 2e had specific rules on it, but 3.5 leaves it up to the DM.

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  9. - Top - End - #9
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    Keld Denar's Avatar

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    Default Re: Power Attack requires STR 13 (3.5)

    It gets even fuzzier with something like Bear Warrior. While Wild Shape is hours, easily a good portion of your training day while "leveling up", Bear Warrior is about a minute tops, give or take 12 seconds or so. Is it really possible to learn how to Knockback (RoStone) while you are a big angry bear? RAWR!
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
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    _________________________________
    A beholder’s favorite foods include small live mammals, exotic mushrooms and other fungi, gnomes, beef, pork, colorful leafy vegetables, leaves, flower petals, insects, and birds.

  10. - Top - End - #10
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    Matthew's Avatar

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    Default Re: Power Attack requires STR 13 (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Saph View Post
    I've had this crop up a lot with druid PCs. There are often cases where a druid will qualify for a feat in one wild shape form, but not another.

    Since a high-enough level druid can stay wildshaped 24/7, it's not really an issue, but it does raise the question of exactly how long it takes to level. I think 1e and 2e had specific rules on it, but 3.5 leaves it up to the DM.

    - Saph
    See pages 197-8 of your D20/3.5 DMG for optional training rules that cover time taken and costs incurred.
    Last edited by Matthew; 2009-01-11 at 01:56 PM.
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  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Power Attack requires STR 13 (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    It gets even fuzzier with something like Bear Warrior. While Wild Shape is hours, easily a good portion of your training day while "leveling up", Bear Warrior is about a minute tops, give or take 12 seconds or so. Is it really possible to learn how to Knockback (RoStone) while you are a big angry bear? RAWR!
    Well if you allow it for the druid it would be a bit nasty to not allow it for the bear. You could just houserule that bear warriors have special/costly rituals which allow them to create an area where they can keep their shape longer for training or some such.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Power Attack requires STR 13 (3.5)

    I am a bit surpriced by the fact that most people are allowing me this.

    Lets say a Wizard have a INT:20 (+5).
    He gets 7 skillpoints every level-up (2 + INT-modifier).
    With a periaph of WIS+6, will he get 10 skillpoints every level-up?

    And what happens if he loses his Periaph?

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    monty's Avatar

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    Default Re: Power Attack requires STR 13 (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by drevil View Post
    I am a bit surpriced by the fact that most people are allowing me this.

    Lets say a Wizard have a INT:20 (+5).
    He gets 7 skillpoints every level-up (2 + INT-modifier).
    With a periaph of WIS+6, will he get 10 skillpoints every level-up?

    And what happens if he loses his Periaph?
    No, because skill points explicitly don't allow non-permanent bonuses to count.

    And I assume you mean Headband of Intellect?
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  14. - Top - End - #14
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Power Attack requires STR 13 (3.5)

    I meant Headband of INT+6.


    Where does it say that skill points don't allow non-permanent bonuses to count?

    Thanks.
    Last edited by drevil; 2009-01-11 at 03:48 PM.

  15. - Top - End - #15
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    Heliomance's Avatar

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    Default Re: Power Attack requires STR 13 (3.5)

    I'm pretty sure it's explicitly allowed to qualify for feats with items, though I couldn't tell you where that's laid out. Complete Warrior, perhaps?
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  16. - Top - End - #16
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Power Attack requires STR 13 (3.5)

    Some of you are saying that when choosing and using Power Attack, I can depend on magical items.

    Do you have some referance?

    The DM find that somewhat hard to believe.
    {Scrubbed}
    Last edited by Roland St. Jude; 2009-01-11 at 06:17 PM.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Troll in the Playground
     
    RTGoodman's Avatar

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    Default Re: Power Attack requires STR 13 (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by drevil View Post
    Where does it say that skill points don't allow non-permanent bonuses to count?
    Uh, the description of the headband of intellect?

    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    This enhancement bonus does not earn the wearer extra skill points when a new level is attained; use the unenhanced Intelligence bonus to determine skill points.
    As far as using magic items to qualify, there's nothing against it. The SRD/PHB only says the following regarding attaining feats:

    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat. A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he or she gains the prerequisite.

    A character can’t use a feat if he or she has lost a prerequisite.
    Nothing says you have to meet it on your own, so using an [item] of [ability] +X should count. If you ever take off the item, though, you lose access to the feat and any other feats that depend on it until you put it back on.
    Last edited by RTGoodman; 2009-01-11 at 04:06 PM.
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  18. - Top - End - #18
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    monty's Avatar

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    Default Re: Power Attack requires STR 13 (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by drevil View Post
    {Scrubbed}
    Then why'd you say it?
    Last edited by Roland St. Jude; 2009-01-11 at 06:18 PM.
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  19. - Top - End - #19
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Devil

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    Default Re: Power Attack requires STR 13 (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by drevil View Post
    Some of you are saying that when choosing and using Power Attack, I can depend on magical items.

    Do you have some referance?

    The DM find that somewhat hard to believe.
    {Scrubbed}.
    1)The FAQ was quoted earlier.
    2)Why on earth did you even bring up your DM's faith??
    Last edited by Roland St. Jude; 2009-01-11 at 06:18 PM.
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  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    JaxGaret's Avatar

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    Default Re: Power Attack requires STR 13 (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by drevil View Post
    {Scrubbed}
    Consider this reported.
    Last edited by Roland St. Jude; 2009-01-11 at 06:19 PM.
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  21. - Top - End - #21
    Sheriff in the Playground Administrator
     
    Roland St. Jude's Avatar

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    Default Re: Power Attack requires STR 13 (3.5)

    Sheriff of Moddingham: Please report rule violations, we appreciate that. But please do so without quoting the offending content (we have to manually scrub each quote) or all the finger-wagging (they'll get the message soon enough without telling them they've been reported). Thanks.
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  22. - Top - End - #22
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Person_Man's Avatar

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    Default Re: Power Attack requires STR 13 (3.5)

    Yes.

    In one game I played a lycanthrope who only qualified for various feats while in hybrid or animal form. When in his human form, he was ridiculously weak. In addition, the DM let me know beforehand that most townsfolk are very superstitious, and would freak out if I changed in front of them. Lead to some very interesting roleplaying and encounters.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Power Attack requires STR 13 (3.5)

    We just houseruled it that you had to have the natural statistic (or whatever other prerequisites there are) but that you wouldn't lose use of the feat if you lost the prerequisite.

    Example: You have a STR 14, and you get Power Attack. You are hit by Ray of Enfeeblement. Your STR drops below 13. You can still Power Attack. But you had to have STR 13 minimum to get that feat in the first place - as in your natural, not affected by anything, what it says in the little box next to STR on your character sheet, statistic.

  24. - Top - End - #24
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Power Attack requires STR 13 (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Person_Man View Post
    In addition, the DM let me know beforehand that most townsfolk are very superstitious, and would freak out if I changed in front of them. Lead to some very interesting roleplaying and encounters.
    Does a little imp show up when you try to change inside a town and tell you that she doesn't want you to create an uproar?

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Draz74's Avatar

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    Default Re: Power Attack requires STR 13 (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    An interesting question is why a partial-BAB class with subpar strength would want to use PA to begin with...
    Prerequisite?
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