[3.5] Best feats for Heavy Mace and Greatsword user.

[Myou]

Can anyone suggest some of the best feats for a melee character who uses Heavy Maces and Greatswords (and only those)? The class is a homebrew one that my DM and I are cooking up but the feats need to be official ones.

Any published sources are fine, but if the feat isn't in the SRD please say where it comes from. ^^

Thanks in advance!

[RMS Oceanic]

Power Attack is the feat of choice for two-handed weapons.

If you don't mind my asking, what's your homebrew class? Knowing its class features should allow us to recommend feats that compliment it.

[Myou]

Power Attack is the feat of choice for two-handed weapons.

If you don't mind my asking, what's your homebrew class? Knowing its class features should allow us to recommend feats that compliment it.

Well, it's a party of one character for a solo adventure. It can cast spells, heal and fight in melee. The features aren't entirely concrete yet, but basically it's something akin to a fighter//cleric//wizard.

[Fan]

Or you could just go Cleric, and take DMM: Presist, and buff yourself to hell, and then you can still cast, and are better at meele then the fighter 24/7...
Or just go Druid take a1 level dip in Cleric, and do the same thing.

[Myou]

Or you could just go Cleric, and take DMM: Presist, and buff yourself to hell, and then you can still cast, and are better at meele then the fighter 24/7...
Or just go Druid take a1 level dip in Cleric, and do the same thing.

We're not really going for cheese like DMM.

Thanks for the suggestion though.

[Stephen_E]

For Hv Mace there is the Weapon Style (CW) Three Mountains - Hit the same creature twice in the same round with your Hv Mace and it must make a Fort save, DC = 10 + 1/2 char lev + Str bonus, or be nauseated for 1 round.
Prereqs - Str 13, Cleave, Power Att, Inproved Bullrush and Weapon Focus-Hv Mace.
This does work best with 2WF and Oversized 2WF, given that the more often you strike the more likely you are to get the two hits.

Very feat intensive, but it's the only feat build I know of that does anything for Hv Mace, and does include Power Attack for when you weild the Great Sword.

Stephen E

[Tacoma]

I just want to add, greataxe does d12, 20x3 crit, while greatsword does 2d6 19-20x2. Counting "1" as a miss and assuming your critical threat always succeeds, greatsword average damage is higher because of the critical and the divide only gets stronger as you get critical feats and damage bonuses. In fact, you're going to see a x4 critical Scythe doing more average damage. Just saying.

[Myou]

For Hv Mace there is the Weapon Style (CW) Three Mountains - Hit the same creature twice in the same round with your Hv Mace and it must make a Fort save, DC = 10 + 1/2 char lev + Str bonus, or be nauseated for 1 round.
Prereqs - Str 13, Cleave, Power Att, Inproved Bullrush and Weapon Focus-Hv Mace.
This does work best with 2WF and Oversized 2WF, given that the more often you strike the more likely you are to get the two hits.

Very feat intensive, but it's the only feat build I know of that does anything for Hv Mace, and does include Power Attack for when you weild the Great Sword.

Stephen E

It looks useful, thanks!

I just want to add, greataxe does d12, 20x3 crit, while greatsword does 2d6 19-20x2. Counting "1" as a miss and assuming your critical threat always succeeds, greatsword average damage is higher because of the critical and the divide only gets stronger as you get critical feats and damage bonuses. In fact, you're going to see a x4 critical Scythe doing more average damage. Just saying.

I actually just prefer the Greatsword and Heavy Mace.

[Fizban]

Crushing Blow will help with your mace: 1/round you get to declare a bludgeoning power attack as a crushing blow and force a save against sicken. The save scales by how much you PA damage you deal, so it's easy to scale, and a lot of things can be sickened (which provides -2 to just about everything they roll). Makes for a great coordination attack with your casters too, -2 save is like +2 DC.

Not much will combine the two though, since they're different damage types unless you can get something to let the greatsword deal bludgeoning. You could try some sort of custom style feat, but since you can't wield both at once it's just a set of different abilities which aren't as good as a normal feat. Maybe a "Heavy Weapon Style" feat that gives you trip attacks and ignores AC in certain circumstances, but only with weapons that weigh ridiculously more than they should (like the heavy mace and greatsword....).

[Kaiyanwang]

I'd suggest Three mountains too, very good because has the same tier of charge builds, and even dungeoncrasher, so you can support several tactics with these feats.

If your DM allows it, take staggering blow from dragon magazine compendium: allows to stun targets (save negates) you crit on with a bludgeoning weapon. Needs improved critical, but if you take IC you can later take staggering critical (drow of the underdark), so:

-If you strike two times, chance to nauseate:

-If you crit, chance to stun

-If you crit, targed is slowed, no save.

You DON'T NEED Clerical cheese. Let weapons to classes able to use them.

[Myou]

Crushing Blow will help with your mace: 1/round you get to declare a bludgeoning power attack as a crushing blow and force a save against sicken. The save scales by how much you PA damage you deal, so it's easy to scale, and a lot of things can be sickened (which provides -2 to just about everything they roll). Makes for a great coordination attack with your casters too, -2 save is like +2 DC.

Not much will combine the two though, since they're different damage types unless you can get something to let the greatsword deal bludgeoning. You could try some sort of custom style feat, but since you can't wield both at once it's just a set of different abilities which aren't as good as a normal feat. Maybe a "Heavy Weapon Style" feat that gives you trip attacks and ignores AC in certain circumstances, but only with weapons that weigh ridiculously more than they should (like the heavy mace and greatsword....).

That looks good, but having googled Crushing blow I can't actually find it, can you tell me the surce?

I'm thinking about not using greatswords, and focusing on heavy maces instead, it should make things simpler.

[Stephen_E]

I'm thinking about not using greatswords, and focusing on heavy maces instead, it should make things simpler.

That's a good idea. Focusing on a weapon or weapon combo is very feat intensive. Doing it on 2 seperate weapons or weapon combos is asking to be weak on both. Keep the 2H Sword in your backpack incase you run into undead/constructs with DR, at which point Great Sword/Power Attack leap into play.

Stephen E

[Maerok]

That's a good idea. Focusing on a weapon or weapon combo is very feat intensive. Doing it on 2 seperate weapons or weapon combos is asking to be weak on both. Keep the 2H Sword in your backpack incase you run into undead/constructs with DR, at which point Great Sword/Power Attack leap into play.

Stephen E

A rather big backpack.

[Myou]

That's a good idea. Focusing on a weapon or weapon combo is very feat intensive. Doing it on 2 seperate weapons or weapon combos is asking to be weak on both. Keep the 2H Sword in your backpack incase you run into undead/constructs with DR, at which point Great Sword/Power Attack leap into play.

Stephen E

Good idea, always wise to have access to slashing damage.

[Simanos]

I just want to add, greataxe does d12, 20x3 crit, while greatsword does 2d6 19-20x2. Counting "1" as a miss and assuming your critical threat always succeeds, greatsword average damage is higher because of the critical and the divide only gets stronger as you get critical feats and damage bonuses. In fact, you're going to see a x4 critical Scythe doing more average damage. Just saying.

Actually 20x3 is statistically equal to 19-20x2. Also you don't have to assume the critical threat always succeeds. You have to assume that the if the d20 attack roll results in a threat it is not a miss. That's (misses that would have been threats) the only time 20x3 surpasses 19-20x2. Other than that it's all balanced, even with keen/improved crit. Weapon Master (and other non-core crap) mixes it up a bit though...

As for average damage the 1d12 averages at 6.5 while the 2d6 at 7. But if you start adding damage reduction the 1d12 catches up and surpasses it a tiny bit, but that needs DR that exceeds all your bonuses to damage and then some. Very circumstantial. The true reason to pick Greataxe instead of Greatsword is because the d12 die feels lonely
Seriously, as DM, I've always allowed players with axe weapons to batter doors and cut trees easier than with swords.

[Myou]

I'd suggest Three mountains too, very good because has the same tier of charge builds, and even dungeoncrasher, so you can support several tactics with these feats.

If your DM allows it, take staggering blow from dragon magazine compendium: allows to stun targets (save negates) you crit on with a bludgeoning weapon. Needs improved critical, but if you take IC you can later take staggering critical (drow of the underdark), so:

-If you strike two times, chance to nauseate:

-If you crit, chance to stun

-If you crit, targed is slowed, no save.

You DON'T NEED Clerical cheese. Let weapons to classes able to use them.

I'm sorry, I missed your post - the forum was backing up and I had to wait to post my reply to the guy above you.

That looks like a great combination, thanks!

And as you say, why be boring and use cheezy tricks when a good build will work just fine and be more fun? :3

[Fizban]

That looks good, but having googled Crushing blow I can't actually find it, can you tell me the surce?

I'm thinking about not using greatswords, and focusing on heavy maces instead, it should make things simpler.

Ah, it seems I had the name wrong. It's actually Brutal Strike, found in the PHBII or here.

[ChaosDefender24]

not having to do with feats, but be sure to play a thri-keen or diopsid or something


AFB but if you made them aptitude weapons wouldn't it be okay if you split the feats that you picked between the two weapons?

[Myou]

Ah, it seems I had the name wrong. It's actually Brutal Strike, found in the PHBII or here.

Ah, thanks.

not having to do with feats, but be sure to play a thri-keen or diopsid or something


AFB but if you made them aptitude weapons wouldn't it be okay if you split the feats that you picked between the two weapons?

Actually I'm playing more of an holy warrior character, so I'm not going for a monster race, but thanks for the suggestion.

[Heliomance]

Nothing wrong with playing a holy warrior thri-keen.

The reason he recommends it is because every additional hand you wield a weapon in grants an additional .5 str mod to your damage. So wielding a greatsword in four hands does 2d6+2.5*STR.

[ChaosDefender24]

I was thinking more along the lines of, TWF the heavy mace and the greatsword "Heavy Mace AND Greatsword user," I guess it only works on diopsids, who can explicitly TWF 2-handed weapons and still get the 1.5xstrength bonus to each, now that I think about it

[Heliomance]

So can any four-limbed creature.

[Myou]

Nothing wrong with playing a holy warrior thri-keen.

The reason he recommends it is because every additional hand you wield a weapon in grants an additional .5 str mod to your damage. So wielding a greatsword in four hands does 2d6+2.5*STR.

I appreciate the suggestion, but being a Thri-Keen would be inappropriate for the character I'm making.

I can't really see why anyone would want to play a giant ant monster other than because it comes with cheese. xP

[woodenbandman]

If you can get a reliable way to have large size or powerful build, take Knockback. Imagine: You walk up to an enemy, you bring your mighty mace to bear, and they fly backward 20 feet, possibly tripping other opponents in their wake.

[Kaiyanwang]

I'm sorry, I missed your post - the forum was backing up and I had to wait to post my reply to the guy above you.

That looks like a great combination, thanks!

And as you say, why be boring and use cheezy tricks when a good build will work just fine and be more fun? :3

*bows*

I hope it's useful for you. If you like it and add dungeoncrasher, You could choose to adopt a house rule for towershields in the archives: +4 to bull rush if you wear a TS. Stack with Improved BRush (the designer in short says: if you pres someone with a door, is easier press him).

This could help you to chosse tactics regarding the situation (stun, nauseate and daze through full attacks in a melee; chance to charge: headless charge leap attack and so on; close quarter combat in tight spaces, Towershield and smash people on walls. And if you are full fighter, you have enough feats to do well other 2-3 tricks )

[Myou]

What a wealth of possibilities! :o

Thank guys, very helpful.