Filler Full Caster PRC [3.5]

[Tomada]

People, I'm playing a Wizard, Initiate of the sevenfold veil. I focus on abjuration and necromancy.

Currently, my build has me taking Initiate at 10th level, and I'm 15th. But I would like to change my wizard levels between 5th and 10th to something more useful, because currently it is not useful at all.

After finishing Initiate next level I will take a few Archmage levels. Because I already qualify anyway.

I want a PRC that can give me anything in those dead levels, just so they aren't empty, it doesn't really need to focus abjuration or necromancy, free metamagic feats, free bonus to combat, ANYTHING is better than nothing.

I have acess to:
CORE, Complete Divine, Complete Warrior, Complete Arcane and Complete Adventurer. ONLY.

Thanks In advance

[Kurald Galain]

I'd suggest either Master Specialist, or Mage of the Arcane Order.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Well, let's see...

Mage of the Arcane Order is pretty good for a five level run, I think you get more metamagic feats than are required to enter.

Master Specialist... I know a lot of optimizers love it, but meh, it's kinda whatever.

Abjurant Champion... would be good, only it requires BAB of +5, so you can't take it until level 10. Oh well, auto-quickened Shield spells for +9 Shield bonus to AC is fun.

Nightmare Spinner is good, although only 4/5 for casting. Immunity to Fear is not bad, with some good fear-based stuff. Thematically good with your focus on Necromancy, assuming you haven't banned Illusion.

Fatespinner is good, although you can't enter until level 7, which means you can only take 3 levels. Which is good, because the last level sucks anyways, so you only miss out on one 'good' level.

Geometer might also be a good one, although thanks to the required 9 ranks, you can't get into it until level 6.

[Eldariel]

Unfortunately Initiate's perfect complement, the Master Specialist, is in Complete Mage and unavailable (Master Specialist/Initiate is an incredibly elegant build; Wizard 3/Initiate 7/Master 10 finishes both PrCs just on level 20 and matches their prerequisites too, with Master Specialist granting Greater Spell Focus and Skill Focus: Spellcraft for free, effectively making it only cost 1 feat to enter Initiate). However, there are some decent dip classes offered in Core, C. Arcana and C. Divine. Quick listing:

Loremaster (DMG)
Prerequisites: 1 feat, skills, entry level 8.
Benefits: Grants you a feat and some bonuses of choice, along with extra skillpoints and UMD in class.
Verdict: Since you only get two levels of it, it's ok, but not great. Makes up for the lost feat though.

Red Wizard (DMG)
Prerequisites: Nongood, 4 feats, 3 of which you'd pick anyways, location, flavour package. Entry level 6.
Benefits: Spell Power and stuff, lose a school.
Verdict: Probably not worth it without going all the way.

Alienist (CArc)
Prerequisites: Augment summoning. Entry level 6
Benefits: Summoning-related bonuses and pseudonatural familiar. Some Cthulhu ****.
Veridct: It's ok if you're a summoner. Since you're an Abjurer though, maybe not...

Fatespinner (CArc)
Prerequisites: Crossclass skill. Entry level 8.
Benefits: Small bonuses to any rolls of your choice, one reroll per day.
Verdict: Even three levels are pretty good and entering is trivial as long as you can spare the skillpoints for Profession: Gambler. Solid choice, no feat costs.

Geometer (CArc)
Prerequisites: Crossclass skills. Entry level 7.
Benefits: Ability to effectively "silence" few spells per day without increasing their levels at the cost of 25gp per spell level. Learn Glyph of Warding. Get Search and Disable Device in class and ability to find some symbols/glyphs/similar traps as a Rogue with Trapfinding. Also a bit more economic spellbook.
Verdict: Lots of small benefits over few levels, but they're all just that, small. Also, requires slightly more to enter than Fatespinner; I'd prefer the former.

Mage of the Arcane Order (CArc)
Prerequisites: 1 feat. Entry level 6.
Benefits: Get the feat back, learn to use spellpool to summon any up to level 6 spell you might need into your empty slots, that's pretty much it.
Verdict: The ability to get leave open slots for spells you might need is really handy. Summoning one takes a full-round action though so impractical in combat.

Mindbender (CArc)
Prerequisites: Nongood, lots of crossclass skills. Entry level 6. Only 1 level takeable.
Benefits: Telepathy.
Verdict: If you can spare the skillpoints and alignment, telepathy is awesome.

Wild Mage (CArc)
Prerequisites: 1 feat, Chaotic, cross class skills. Entry level 6.
Benefits: Strange stuff like random caster level (Practiced Spellcaster may or may not kick ass with it), ability to randomally deflect effects targeted at you either to hit you anyways, hit an ally, or an enemy within 20', ability to control random items a bit better.
Verdict: If you like random, go ahead. Not actually good though.

Divine Oracle (CDiv)
Prerequisites: 1 feat. Entry level 6.
Benefits: Gain evasion, uncanny dodge, trap sense, bonuses to divination and scrying and a Domain.
Verdict: Huge entry cost, but decent benefits if you're anything of a diviner.

Sacred Exorcist (CDiv)
Prerequisites: Good, Knowledges. Entry level 10.
Benefits: You get whole 1 level of this before Initiate, but that gives you Turn Undead and poor excuse of an ability to exorcise spirits possessing people.
Verdict: If you've got something you want Turning for...


Overall, I'd go with Mindbender > Fatespinner, although Mage of the Arcane Order is pretty good too.

[Keld Denar]

Divine Oracle2/Loremaster3 fits perfectly into your 5 level gap. DO is enterable after level 5, and Loremaster after 7. Take Skill Focus: Knowledge(Religion) to qualify for both, then recover that feat with Loremaster's feat secret. Loremaster also requires 3 Metamagic or Item Creation, but you should already have Scribe Scroll, so that means you only need 2 more. Extend Spell is good for Abjurations, and Empower Spell is good for Necromancy.

Too bad you don't have Complete Mage though, because Master Specialist is an awesome PrC.

[Tomada]

Unfortunately Initiate's perfect complement, the Master Specialist, is in Complete Mage and unavailable (Master Specialist/Initiate is an incredibly elegant build; Wizard 3/Initiate 7/Master 10 finishes both PrCs just on level 20 and matches their prerequisites too, with Master Specialist granting Greater Spell Focus and Skill Focus: Spellcraft for free, effectively making it only cost 1 feat to enter Initiate). However, there are some decent dip classes offered in Core, C. Arcana and C. Divine. Quick listing:

Loremaster (DMG)
Prerequisites: 1 feat, skills, entry level 8.
Benefits: Grants you a feat and some bonuses of choice, along with extra skillpoints and UMD in class.
Verdict: Since you only get two levels of it, it's ok, but not great. Makes up for the lost feat though.

Red Wizard (DMG)
Prerequisites: Nongood, 4 feats, 3 of which you'd pick anyways, location, flavour package. Entry level 6.
Benefits: Spell Power and stuff, lose a school.
Verdict: Probably not worth it without going all the way.

Alienist (CArc)
Prerequisites: Augment summoning. Entry level 6
Benefits: Summoning-related bonuses and pseudonatural familiar. Some Cthulhu ****.
Veridct: It's ok if you're a summoner. Since you're an Abjurer though, maybe not...

Fatespinner (CArc)
Prerequisites: Crossclass skill. Entry level 8.
Benefits: Small bonuses to any rolls of your choice, one reroll per day.
Verdict: Even three levels are pretty good and entering is trivial as long as you can spare the skillpoints for Profession: Gambler. Solid choice, no feat costs.

Geometer (CArc)
Prerequisites: Crossclass skills. Entry level 7.
Benefits: Ability to effectively "silence" few spells per day without increasing their levels at the cost of 25gp per spell level. Learn Glyph of Warding. Get Search and Disable Device in class and ability to find some symbols/glyphs/similar traps as a Rogue with Trapfinding. Also a bit more economic spellbook.
Verdict: Lots of small benefits over few levels, but they're all just that, small. Also, requires slightly more to enter than Fatespinner; I'd prefer the former.

Mage of the Arcane Order (CArc)
Prerequisites: 1 feat. Entry level 6.
Benefits: Get the feat back, learn to use spellpool to summon any up to level 6 spell you might need into your empty slots, that's pretty much it.
Verdict: The ability to get leave open slots for spells you might need is really handy. Summoning one takes a full-round action though so impractical in combat.

Mindbender (CArc)
Prerequisites: Nongood, lots of crossclass skills. Entry level 6. Only 1 level takeable.
Benefits: Telepathy.
Verdict: If you can spare the skillpoints and alignment, telepathy is awesome.

Wild Mage (CArc)
Prerequisites: 1 feat, Chaotic, cross class skills. Entry level 6.
Benefits: Strange stuff like random caster level (Practiced Spellcaster may or may not kick ass with it), ability to randomally deflect effects targeted at you either to hit you anyways, hit an ally, or an enemy within 20', ability to control random items a bit better.
Verdict: If you like random, go ahead. Not actually good though.

Divine Oracle (CDiv)
Prerequisites: 1 feat. Entry level 6.
Benefits: Gain evasion, uncanny dodge, trap sense, bonuses to divination and scrying and a Domain.
Verdict: Huge entry cost, but decent benefits if you're anything of a diviner.

Sacred Exorcist (CDiv)
Prerequisites: Good, Knowledges. Entry level 10.
Benefits: You get whole 1 level of this before Initiate, but that gives you Turn Undead and poor excuse of an ability to exorcise spirits possessing people.
Verdict: If you've got something you want Turning for...


Overall, I'd go with Mindbender > Fatespinner, although Mage of the Arcane Order is pretty good too.

WOW. What a detailed answer! THANKS A LOT!

Before I say what I settled I will comment each of your inputs.

Loremaster (DMG)
Free skill points. Although I'm not a skill monkey the extra skill points don't really hurt, do they? And I didn't think of it before. I already have maxed Arcane knowledge and 5 ranks in nature, religion and the planes. Easy to qualify.

Red Wizard (DMG)
I didn't even remember that. I use the SRD in substitution of PHB and DMG and didn't remember it was not OGL. Although I agree it's not worth without going all the way, AND I already an specialized in necromancy and can't give away another school, else I can't qualify for archmage.

Alienist (CArc)
I agree, I'm not a summoner, I looked at it before posting and didn't like it.

Fatespinner (CArc)
A good PRc. But there is a Fatespinner in the party (actually he is the DM in most sessions, I still didn't play with him, because the times he was not DMing I was.

Geometer (Carc)
Meh. Nothing good here. And some skill points cost.


Mage of the Arcane Order (CArc)
Spellpoll is nice, but I don't like the flavor of the class. And that really matters.


Mindbender (CArc)
Very nice class. But there is a problem here. I banned enchantment from my spell list....

Wild Mage (CArc)
I'm not chaotic, otherwise I would jump in!

Divine Oracle (CDiv)
Actually it will cost me nothing if I take loremaster, I already have (plan to have) 5 ranks in religion, so it's 3 skill points, really.

Sacred Exorcist (CDiv)
You see, I'm not really good... *raises leadsheet*

Divine Oracle2/Loremaster3 fits perfectly into your 5 level gap. DO is enterable after level 5, and Loremaster after 7. Take Skill Focus: Knowledge(Religion) to qualify for both, then recover that feat with Loremaster's feat secret. Loremaster also requires 3 Metamagic or Item Creation, but you should already have Scribe Scroll, so that means you only need 2 more. Extend Spell is good for Abjurations, and Empower Spell is good for Necromancy.

Too bad you don't have Complete Mage though, because Master Specialist is an awesome PrC.

I wanted complete mage, but they never translated it to portuguese, which makes things a little more complicated.


Lawful Evil Human Necromancer 5 / Divine Oracle 2/ Loremaster 2 / Initiate of the sevenfold veil 6

Feats:
Bonus: Scribe Scroll
Bonus-Human: Skill Focus: Knowledge(religion)
1st: Spell Focus: Abjuration
3rd: Spell Focus: Necromancy
5th Bonus: Empower Spell
6th: Split Ray (enter Divine Oracle)
9th Bonus secret: Skill Focus: SpellCraft
9th Greater Spell Focus: Abjuration (enter Loremaster)
10th: (Enter Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil)
12th: Improved Familiar
15th: Chain Spell


I think it's pretty good, could be better but I don't care, it will be fun to play this little sarcastic little necro-abjurer.

[Keld Denar]

I wanted complete mage, but they never translated it to portuguese, which makes things a little more complicated.

Bummer man, though your english seems good enough that you might just consider buying it online in english just to reference.

One hting people most often overlook for Loremaster, is the extent of the skill list. Loremaster has UMD as a class skill. This is HUGE!. UMD is the single strongest skill in the game, and definitely worth dumping a bunch of points into.

Wanna know how to really abuse UMD? Open your DMG to the magic items section and take a look at the Strand of Prayer Beads. One of them, the Bead of Karma, increases your CL by 4!!!! when you use it, once per day. All you need to do to activate it is convince it that you are a divine caster, which is only DC20. That's hardly a difficult check! Use it in the morning when you cast your daily buffs like GMW and Heart of X, making them last longer, have stronger effects, and be harder to dispel. Very very good for an arcane caster. With the extra skill points you get from LM, you could easily back fill ranks in it while keeping Concentration and Spellcraft topped off. You can always go back and fill your knowledges when you take your Iot7V levels. UMD is really good.

[Eldariel]

Bummer man, though your english seems good enough that you might just consider buying it online in english just to reference.

Yea, I'm Finnish and there actually are no Finnish copies of the D&D books, but that hasn't been much of a hurdle over the years (especially after some playing and figuring out the D&D vocabulary). I suggest you try the English version of the book at some point; it's really nice material.

[Tomada]

Bummer man, though your english seems good enough that you might just consider buying it online in english just to reference.

One hting people most often overlook for Loremaster, is the extent of the skill list. Loremaster has UMD as a class skill. This is HUGE!. UMD is the single strongest skill in the game, and definitely worth dumping a bunch of points into.

Wanna know how to really abuse UMD? Open your DMG to the magic items section and take a look at the Strand of Prayer Beads. One of them, the Bead of Karma, increases your CL by 4!!!! when you use it, once per day. All you need to do to activate it is convince it that you are a divine caster, which is only DC20. That's hardly a difficult check! Use it in the morning when you cast your daily buffs like GMW and Heart of X, making them last longer, have stronger effects, and be harder to dispel. Very very good for an arcane caster. With the extra skill points you get from LM, you could easily back fill ranks in it while keeping Concentration and Spellcraft topped off. You can always go back and fill your knowledges when you take your Iot7V levels. UMD is really good.

Yes, I know I could buy it in English. I give English classes sometimes. But not everyone in the party knows english (actually, just one person, but still).

And about the UMD, this specific character already had 8 (cross-class) skill ranks in UMD, know it will have max ranks (10 just from lore master levels, for class skill cost), then completed with cross-class skills. My familiar will love to use some wands and scrolls and such.