Why would this party work together?

[Frosty]

So we've got a new game coming up and we need to figure out why these people might meet and work together in an adventuring party. I'd appreciate some insight on potential pitfalls and inter-party conflicts and how to get the players to work past them.

Possible party:
LG Gold Dwarf Paladin/Greyguard of St Cuthbert
TN Aasimar Cloistered Cleric/Malconvoker
LG Succubus (LA was reduced to +2) Paladin
CG Hellbred (Spirit Aspect) Beguiler

I'm sure there will be some great rp but we need a good IC reason for the Dwarf not to Detect Evil on the Succubus and then Smite away at first.

[afroakuma]

Well, how is she a paladin?

Perhaps he was involved in her rise to grace?

Perhaps she's been assigned to him as a spiritual disciple, searching for redemption or the ability to make amends?

[Assassin89]

One idea is to have the group forced to pay off a debt to a powerful wizard. The wizard will allow the party to leave his domain once each member pays 1 million gp. If one member dies, each member is required to pay off a fraction of the deceased member's debt as well.

[KKL]

I'm sure there will be some great rp but we need a good IC reason for the Dwarf not to Detect Evil on the Succubus and then Smite away at first.

The Gold Dwarf is in fact partners with the Succubus Paladin (they fight crime). The two are working together on a church ordained mission. Secretly the Gold Dwarf is waiting until the Succubus shows signs that she in not in fact Paladin material, which would require heavenly smitings.

[Xyk]

If she's lawful good, does detect evil even work?

[Frosty]

One idea is to have the group forced to pay off a debt to a powerful wizard. The wizard will allow the party to leave his domain once each member pays 1 million gp. If one member dies, each member is required to pay off a fraction of the deceased member's debt as well.

That...is so cliched my players might throw d4s at me. That said, good initiative

As for how she became a paladin, the Succubus's player hasn't decided yet. I know for a fact the Aasimar and the Gold Dwarf are friends though.

[Frosty]

If she's lawful good, does detect evil even work?

A Succubus is an outsider with the [Evil] and [Chaotic] subtypes. Detect Evil's spell description would indicate that this Succubus, with its 12 HD, would register as Overwhelming evil.

[Heliomance]

But Paladin also grants an Aura of Good. How do they interact?

[KKL]

But Paladin also grants an Aura of Good. How do they interact?

Explosively.

[Eldariel]

With the alignments matching, I don't really see a problem. Aasimar sticks around on heritage, Gold Dwarf and Succubus get along by alignment and the Beguiler...well, he's still good so they'd probably tolerate him. Really, church mission is an easy reason; The Paladins have been ordered to work together (Your Given God vouches on the Succubus), the Aasimar tags along with the Gold Dwarf because of their old friendship (and the Succubus interests him in regards of his fiend summoning studies) and the Beguiler is hired muscle to handle things the Paladins and Cleric aren't keen to handle.

[Canadian]

They all meet at an A.A. meeting. The dwarf if the paladin's sponsor. They all have to adventure together and stay on the wagon at the same time.

They get a scroll with detect alcohol and aura of sobriety.

[Heliomance]

I know Detect Evil can go off on subtype, but does Smite Evil? Would it not just fail due to her being LG? If Smite Evil doesn't work, it's often a clue you shouldn't be doing it.

[Frosty]

But Paladin also grants an Aura of Good. How do they interact?

All this means is that a Blackguard can use Smite Good on her as easily as a Paladin can use Smite Evil on her.

With the alignments matching, I don't really see a problem. Aasimar sticks around on heritage, Gold Dwarf and Succubus get along by alignment and the Beguiler...well, he's still good so they'd probably tolerate him. Really, church mission is an easy reason; The Paladins have been ordered to work together (Your Given God vouches on the Succubus), the Aasimar tags along with the Gold Dwarf because of their old friendship (and the Succubus interests him in regards of his fiend summoning studies) and the Beguiler is hired muscle to handle things the Paladins and Cleric aren't keen to handle.

The whole "Deity vouches for a character" might not work because they've been rather distant lately, rarely interfering and speaking to mortals directly. Spells such as Divination and Contact Other Plane and even Zone of Truth have been failing, but that's a deeper part of the campaign story that we don't have to get into here.

I know Detect Evil can go off on subtype, but does Smite Evil? Would it not just fail due to her being LG? If Smite Evil doesn't work, it's often a clue you shouldn't be doing it.

Smite Evil doesn't check if you're Good or not. It just checks if you're Evil.

[Jasdoif]

Unholy blight will affect a Good Succubus, the same way it'll affect a Good creature without alignment subtypes. If the dwarf was aware of how demons always register via detect evil, and personally witnessed the Succubus becoming sickened from unholy blight, it should be believable that the Succubus is, in fact, Good.

[woodenbandman]

Geas?

Or the beguiler could convince everyone that the succubus isn't evil at all, that it's really just a curse on her family's name.

[Dacia Brabant]

A Succubus Paladin is certain to attract a lot of attention since it's so unheard of (outside of Planescape anyway), so it stands to reason that the Church of St. Cuthbert of all things would keep constant tabs on her to make sure she really is what she claims to be. That's where the dwarven paladin comes in--who better to investigate up close (and resist) a demon of lust than a staid old dwarf?

[Jack_Simth]

But Paladin also grants an Aura of Good. How do they interact?

They don't. The two are completely independant of each other. See, all the Detect Alignment spells only test for the presence of the alignment they detect. The LG Paladin Succubus has the [Chaotic] and [Evil] Subtypes, so registers under Detect Chaos and Detect Evil. She also has the Auras from her Paladin levels, which means she shows under Detect Good and Detect Law as well. She's also got some usually-active Su abilities, so she shows under Detect Magic, too.

As far as most detect spells are concerned, she registers.

Likewise, she's very, very vulnerable to any of the alignment-based effects - see the Monster Manual subtype entry for Evil:

Evil Subtype: A subtype usually applied only to outsiders native to the evil-aligned Outer Planes. Evil outsiders are also called fiends. Most creatures that have this subtype also have evil alignments; however, if their alignments change, they still retain the subtype. Any effect that depends on alignment affects a creature with this subtype as if the creature has an evil alignment, no matter what its alignment actually is. The creature also suffers effects according to its actual alignment. A creature with the evil subtype overcomes damage reduction as if its natural weapons and any weapons it wields were evil-aligned (see Damage Reduction, above).

That's essentially duplicated under the Chaotic subtype, too. So as far as things like chaos hammer, holy smite, order’s wrath, or unholy blight are concerned, she's fully affected by all of them.

[Grail]

It's quite easy. The Dwarf's master was responsible for turning her to the good side. She and the Dwarf have since become friends.

[Innis Cabal]

If it has the evil subtype it can't even be a paladin. Regardless of its actual alignment, so there is your major problem right there.

Or if you rule otherwise, then it should lose its evil subtype because...well its not evil anymore, clearly.

[Vexxation]

I'd like to point out that a Succubus Paladin is obviously shunned by her own people. Perhaps she likes the Malconvoker because he sends fiends to their death for a theoretically righteous cause.

[Grail]

If it has the evil subtype it can't even be a paladin. Regardless of its actual alignment, so there is your major problem right there.

Or if you rule otherwise, then it should lose its evil subtype because...well its not evil anymore, clearly.

Incorrect. Wizards even published their own Succubus Paladin that rode on a Vrock Mount. I'm too lazy to find the link though.

[KillianHawkeye]

You mentioned that the dwarf is a paladin of St. Cuthbert, but what about the cleric's religion? Does he follow a deity or just his own convictions? What level are they starting at?

I've assumed that, despite being LG and becoming a paladin, the succubus was unable to find a deity to sponser her. It still makes sense for a local church (especially one like St. Cuthbert's) to want to keep tabs on a creature with such a dark past, in case she falls back to her old ways. This would be easy to set up if the character had caused a bit of a ruckus when arriving in the area, but was eventually able to "prove" that she really was a paladin (backstory). Or else the dwarf or some other PC could have been a part of or witness to her initial redemption.

Either way, a succubus paladin operating in the area is going to get a rep. People (and darker things) are going to know about her, and form an opinion, even before they ever meet. Most people aren't going to like her very much, nor will they trust her at first, despite the fact she is a paladin. Beyond that, let the other players form their own opinions about her and from there you can all decide how you want to keep the group together.

[Altima]

They three 'normal' folk are there to ride herd on the Succubus, who's the experiment of a Circlet of Inverse Alignment (circlets are prettier than helms). Since demons are innately evil (succubi are, has been, and always will be, demons, so suck it 4e), and chaotically so, they require evidence that the change is permanant, and that, perhaps, it can be expanded upon to include others.

This allows you to keep the succubi character from wearing helms (thus incorporating into her level adjustment reduction). It gives you a reason for them being together. I suggest making up a deity that the succubi follows--such as a deity of (poetic) justic, atonement, forgiveness or whatever--to explain her paladinship (if she requires further reduction of power, you could limit the amount of special powers she gets, like not being able to use lay on hands or smite evil or aura of good).

It also gives you a good hook for such an organization going 'too far' in their quest to redeem the 'bad guys' (see: mind control, enforcing their power on people who aren't really evil, etc).

[Grail]

Actually, I remembered that I posted the link for Eludecia here a while ago, so i didn't have to really do much to find it again.

[Grail]

And as to everyone finding out about a Succubus paladin running around, she has polymorph with no duration, so it's not going to be that easy for it to happen. It'll just be a whacky chick paladin.

[RTGoodman]

All four characters are sort of the type that any normal church wouldn't necessarily use in public ceremonies and all that - basically, you've got a Paladin that isn't quite a squeaky-clean as he should be (Greyguard), a demon-looking guy, a Cleric that literally summons demons, and an ACTUAL demon that CLAIMS to be a LG Paladin. I mean, it's pretty shocking.

That said, it's the kind of group the hierarchy of the Cuthbertite church might use for missions that need more... discretion. I mean, the group is less likely to be the stick-up-the-butt, Miko-style Paladins/Clerics than most Cuthbertite groups, and the church can definitely use that. They're sort of like Pelor and Heironeous's "Shadow Guard" or whatever it is they call those guys in Complete Champion.

[Innis Cabal]

She also ends up losing all of her abilities from even being a succubus. As all of them are evil. So she gets double the screw for being a paladin. Not thats its not cool for RP...but really you should drop the subtype, there are even rules for it in BoED

[KKL]

(succubi are, has been, and always will be, demons, so suck it 4e)

Wow, that line was totally needed and in no way a (blatant) jab at an edition in an attempt to validate your own burning hatred.

Hey, did you know that Succubi fit the Devil description MORE than they do Demons?

[Limos]

The first three all sound like they are involved with a certain church. So they could reasonably know one another, or at least respect one another based on their religious affiliations. The beguiler could be friends with the succubus, or a mercenary.

Being a Mercenary is usually the easiest explanation for things.

"Why am I following you?"
"Because I pay you."
"Oh right. Carry on then."

[Drider]

Maybe the succubus is that way from a curse, like a werewolf except as a demon...Or that she just looks like a succubus, but she is a complete vargoulle(however it's spelled, that head monster that kisses you, then your head grows bat wings and flys away).
If malconvoker is a demon-based class(I remember it that way, i may be wrong), maybe he summoned the succubus and/or the hellbred as a single summon that has free-will, and is hiding what they are from the paladin/paladinS. Maybe the gold dwarf is trying to redeem them and is acting as their jailor(ala' miko, except more sympathetic toward them) and is more of a moral guide.