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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Mutants and Masterminds

    Wow. Why did no one ever TELL me there was a system that could quickly and easily be made to construct an adventure where Batman and Captain Planet fight an army of Daleks led by Darth Vader!?

    Of course, this is just from looking through the skills and feats; Is there some horrible drawback to it? I don't see many M&M threads on this site, so maybe I havn't seen something yet. Maybe superheroes just arn't as much fun as you'd think.

    So, what are the Giantip member's opinions of it? What helpful comments and advice can you give me? What are the things most people screw up trying to run M&M? What are some of the Pro Tips?
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    Default Re: Mutants and Masterminds

    We started up a game recently with my local group, our rag tag group made up of a Trekkie named "Admiral Sci-Fi," The Huntsman from Freakazoid, Guddah; he's a Huge fat man, Captian Cultist(Warhammer 40K) Who is just awkward, then there is "Nobody," to keep it short the player names all his characters "Nobody" when he plays a new game, then there is my character "Dash Gettum, Elemental Animal Handler Extraordinaire, Gotta Obtain the Lot of 'Em"

    Its fun, my character wasn't exactly complete for the first session so I didn't get to do much except use my Teamwork feat to grant a few people a +5 to attack

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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Mutants and Masterminds

    You must not be looking very hard. There's several M&M threads a week here, which is more than just about any other system that's not D&D.

    It is, simply and literally, the best thing to ever come out of d20. It is better by leagues than D&D.

    Of course, this only applies to second edition. First edition is a horrible abortion of a game. The difference in quality is staggering.

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    Default Re: Mutants and Masterminds

    This thread is make me curious. Just how awesomazing is this system? I have always had trouble finding a decent way to roleplay superheroes effectivley, and when I do, I have trouble finding people to play; if this system is quality and popular, it could solve both problems.

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    Default Re: Mutants and Masterminds

    Well, Collin, if you want my opinion, it's pretty damn good.

    It's basically a point-based d20 (saves, attack rolls, and such, are still there. This makes it also good, because it gives the average D&Der a feeling of familiarity that helps you get them into it ), but it has an amazing level of flexibility - I have played only three characters in the system, but I can already vouch that it certainly accomodates very different concepts with astonishing ease (one is a gadgeteer genius magical girl, another is basically a Starcraft Ghost, and the third is... well, Flandre Scarlet. I wanted to know how much it'd take the other players to realize the ripoff) - without getting overcomplex or drowned in 9001 optional rules, as GURPS can get at times.

    If you wish, I can explain a bit more... but I have to warn you I get very longwinded at times .

  6. - Top - End - #6
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    Default Re: Mutants and Masterminds

    Quote Originally Posted by Collin152 View Post
    This thread is make me curious. Just how awesomazing is this system? I have always had trouble finding a decent way to roleplay superheroes effectivley, and when I do, I have trouble finding people to play; if this system is quality and popular, it could solve both problems.
    Even if you don't want to play superheroes, this is a great system. It has a lot of flexibility, and a certain standardized approach to abilities that helps even out power level at least somewhat for a system so close to DnD.

    I find it to be a very good system, and from what I know, it is indeed popular.

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    Default Re: Mutants and Masterminds

    Unlike DND, which does a crap job on representing a heroic fantasy setting and even worse at almost every other setting, M&M is great for superheroes and just as great for almost anything else (it'd take me a lot of effort to think up a setting that M&M would not be able to represent easily). It's the only good d20 game, for me.

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    Kobold

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    Default Re: Mutants and Masterminds

    Quote Originally Posted by Tengu_temp View Post
    Unlike DND, which does a crap job on representing a heroic fantasy setting and even worse at almost every other setting, M&M is great for superheroes and just as great for almost anything else (it'd take me a lot of effort to think up a setting that M&M would not be able to represent easily). It's the only good d20 game, for me.
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    Last edited by shadow_archmagi; 2009-01-17 at 07:57 PM.
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    Default Re: Mutants and Masterminds

    Still doable easily with M&M, unless you consider "even the biggest badass can and probably will die from one bullet" an integral element of the setting... in which case you could probably just increase the damage of guns and it'd be fine. The way items work in M&M, this is not even a houserule.
    M&M works well even if nobody uses superpowers.

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    Default Re: Mutants and Masterminds

    Well, like most people, I think M&M is rather spectacular, and does a rather spectacular job of representing the superhero genre as a whole. The game is made so that you can have Batman and Superman at the same exact level without outdoing each other. Try to do that with D&D or even Modern and you get a mess that requires you spend 300 dollars to get a few spells and feats, or illegally download them. And even then you have giant power difference that require backbraking min-maxing and powergaming that lives upto it's name, unless you use 4th edition, of course. But then you can't play superheroes at all. M&M is point buy, and believe me, those things annoy me to no end, but I lacks the hundreds of needless extras and steps you have to do in order to make one character, like GURPS and (thought I hate to admit it) BESM. It's all about powers, feats and skills. It's also great for playing other games, like swords & sorcerey.

    I'm rambling, but believe me, it's a great game. If games were ranked as movie stars, M&M would be the Will Smith of Pen & Paper.

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    Default Re: Mutants and Masterminds

    Quote Originally Posted by Otogi View Post
    I'm rambling, but believe me, it's a great game. If games were ranked as movie stars, M&M would be the Will Smith of Pen & Paper.
    This is an apt analogy because M&M went from crap to great.

    One thing I've always wanted to do is run a Faerūn game with M&M. I mean, your archetypal FR party past level 8 or so is a group of superheroes already. Creating a bunch of templates and standard power arrays and such would easily let you model races, classes, spells, etc. to the degree you want to, and the system just allows for plain more heroic gameplay than D&D. The fact that equipment/wealth/items are not a major concern (and any good item is bought as and works just like any other power) adds to the heroic feel.

    Edit: Also, a Gloranthan game. Great, now I'm going to have to stat out Harrek and Jar-Eel for M&M...
    Last edited by Tsotha-lanti; 2009-01-17 at 08:43 PM.

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    Kobold

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    Default Re: Mutants and Masterminds

    So, does M&M work well for villanous campaigns?
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    Default Re: Mutants and Masterminds

    Quote Originally Posted by shadow_archmagi View Post
    So, does M&M work well for villanous campaigns?
    Yes

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Mutants and Masterminds

    Quote Originally Posted by shadow_archmagi View Post
    So, does M&M work well for villanous campaigns?
    Yep. The system lets you build pretty much anything you want, heroic or otherwise. The most important part is to let your players know genre of villains you're looking for. Do you want your players to strap the heroes into overly elaborate death traps, or would you reward them for executing them immediately and cremating the body? Mind you, this is important for heroic campaigns as well.

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    Default Re: Mutants and Masterminds

    I have nothing but fanboyish praise for M&M. It is quite simply one of the greatest RPGs I have ever encountered. I love comic books, and have tried a few times to get into superhero based tabletop gaming, but none of the systems ever worked right for what I wanted to do.

    But with M&M, everything works great. For the first time, Super-Speedsters actually make sense, magic users and super scientists are actually on par, and, as previously mentioned, Batman could actually face Superman and have a shot.

    And yes, it can fit almost any setting. Although not as broad as GURPS (one of my other favorite systems, although I always found their superhero material underwhelming), M&M is great for any sort of "cinematic" campaign. In any sort of action movie, the characters could easily be described as having some degree of superpowers, and Mutants & Masterminds does a pretty great job of portraying that.

    You could easily create anyone from John Wayne to Hulk Hogan with these rules. Hmmm, now that might be funny.
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    Goblin

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    Default Re: Mutants and Masterminds

    What these guys said. Except the bits about 1st Edition; I never played it, so I have no opinion. 2nd is more available and what everyone plays anyway.

    Only possible complaint is that combat and injury is fairly cinematic as opposed to simulationist. I, personally, prefer cinematic combat, but if you're looking for a gritty, realistic squad-level tactical simulation, the system would need some modifications.
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    Default Re: Mutants and Masterminds

    Yes, M&M is a good game. It is extremely flexible and adaptable (not in the near of Gurps, but almost close), allows for strongly individualised characters and works well on the over the top heroic combat level (unlike Tengu_temp I think the game has significant difficulties to emulate a more sombre and iolent combat feeling, and unlike Nerd-o-rama I conscider this as a serious drawback).

    Mutants & Masterminds is probably the best variety of D&D out there. It gets rid of many of the anachronic rule elements such as classes, and the very flexible character creation allows for more depth of character.

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    Default Re: Mutants and Masterminds

    I've heard of it, I won't play it. That's all I have to say on the subject. Just so there's a semi-negative opinion here.
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    Default Re: Mutants and Masterminds

    Mutants and Masterminds is my very favorite game system, and that is by such a wide margin that I doubt I'll have reason to reconsider.

    I'd go into more detail, but I need sleep and by the time I wake up, dozens of people will tell you why it's so awesome.

    I think that one of the reasons you might not see as many threads about it is because there's less wrong with it. Most threads are about, "How come X sucks in Y game" or "People say X sucks, but I don't agree!". If there was more to complain about, there'd be more to talk about. Similarly, there's less obfuscation in the rulebook, so there's no impetus for you to ask, "How do I make a character who can breathe lightning and travel through time?" because it's immediately obvious. It's also immediately obvious what's wrong with the game... partly because the book has sidebars saying, "Yes, this ability can be overpowered if you take it to extremes, so don't take it to extremes."
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    Default Re: Mutants and Masterminds

    Quote Originally Posted by M0rt View Post
    I've heard of it, I won't play it. That's all I have to say on the subject. Just so there's a semi-negative opinion here.
    Why won't you play it?
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    Default Re: Mutants and Masterminds

    Quote Originally Posted by BardicDuelist View Post
    Why won't you play it?
    Well, let's see. From what I hear, it's a cinematic system with abstract combat rules aimed at superhero-style games. Which is about as far from being my cup of tea as you can get. And it's point-based too, another thing I don't like.
    Last edited by Morty; 2009-01-18 at 06:03 AM.
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    Default Re: Mutants and Masterminds

    We've just started a M&M 2nd edition campaign. It's pretty cool.

    You do have to approach character creation differently, though. The way to build a M&M character is to say "I want my character to do this, be good at this, and not be good at this" and then build it - ie concept first, then mechanics. If you do mechanics first and just try and see what you can get away with, the system breaks.

    So it requires a bit of concern for balance on the part of the players, but then, if you're used to D&D, that won't be anything new. :)

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    Default Re: Mutants and Masterminds

    Not everyone is content with larger than life characters of tremendous power. Mutants and Masterminds has certain difficulties to emulate grittier and less merciful settings.

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    Default Re: Mutants and Masterminds

    Quote Originally Posted by Satyr View Post
    Not everyone is content with larger than life characters of tremendous power. Mutants and Masterminds has certain difficulties to emulate grittier and less merciful settings.
    That's what GURPS is for, as it has the opposite problem.
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    Default Re: Mutants and Masterminds

    I've never tried GURPS myself, but maybe I will, as I'm constantly frustrated by my unablility to find a gritty system to suit my tastes. Warhammer is nice, but it's too setting-specific.
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    Default Re: Mutants and Masterminds

    Quote Originally Posted by BardicDuelist
    That's what GURPS is for, as it has the opposite problem.
    No. I hate to say it, but you are actually wrong there. Yes, Gurps is based on some kind of reality and grows upwards from there to more fantastic systems. This means, that the basics of the system are somewhat based on reality, but not that it is unable to, let's say, include playing superhero characters or huge flying lizards. It works quite well in a high power environment, you just have a) to through points at the character and b) allow for more varied advantages, and so on. Annoyed of the character's high vulnerability? Take Damage Reduction. High Skills make sure you make many, targeted, deadly attacks. If that isn't enough, there is stuff like altered time sense, extra attacks and so on. I play in a Gurps group where the characters are old Greek Gods in the modern world and it plays smoothly (while Ares is hacking his way through a SWAT unit of the local police and Apollon hunts helicopters with his bow).

    Th other approach - starting with a high power, cinematic system and distilling it into a fairly realistic system - is much more difficult, as stacking up is not a very difficult process, while fine tuning and adaptation actually is.

    Quote Originally Posted by M0rt
    I've never tried GURPS myself, but maybe I will, as I'm constantly frustrated by my unablility to find a gritty system to suit my tastes. Warhammer is nice, but it's too setting-specific.
    Well, Gurps is as non-setting specific as it gets. But the whole "Gurps is a gritty system" is a myth. It works as a gritty system, if you want to, but as it works for every setting and mood (not necessarily equally well), this is not even one of the more characterising features.

    If you look for a gritty system look for Harnmaster. It is a very dark age medieval game, and while it is meant for a specific setting, it can easily be transfered to other settings.

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    Default Re: Mutants and Masterminds

    I really really want to try Mutants and Masterminds, thing is, I can't find a game near me and no one I know wants to play via the internet.

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    Default Re: Mutants and Masterminds

    Quote Originally Posted by shadow_archmagi View Post
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    Default Re: Mutants and Masterminds

    Quote Originally Posted by M0rt View Post
    I've never tried GURPS myself, but maybe I will, as I'm constantly frustrated by my unablility to find a gritty system to suit my tastes. Warhammer is nice, but it's too setting-specific.
    You might want to try Fudge with the brutal wound track. The basic combat system is that when somebody beats somebody elses roll, how much they do that by goes into damage. If one person rolls well, and another poorly, or one person is significantly ahead, you see high damage wounds in the default wound system, with the brutal wound system a decent gunshot will almost certainly kill. Fudge also has a really really harsh gang up bonus. Think D&D flanking, but with +5 to hit instead of +2, you don't have to actually flank, and just have to both be attacking the same person, and it adds up the more people there are, so that if one person is fighting three, the three have +10 to hit each. And it makes it harder to hit them without just ignoring two of them and going for one, which is a great way to get killed if any of the others are remotely competent.
    I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.

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    Kobold

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    Default Re: Mutants and Masterminds

    So, trying to draw up a character.

    Are there any really bad character choices? Like, say, the equivalent of 3.5's Toughness?
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