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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Jan 2009

    Default Martial Stalker Build

    Hello everyone, Iīm new in the forums and i enjoyed reading your comments about system rules and build suggestions. Thatīs why I would like your opinion regarding this build that I plan to use in a session.

    The build is based on a human mercenary that has a cat companion. He is specialized in fast melee combat. The cat is supposed to serve as a tracker and help him detect opponents that remain hidden.
    As the title says, the feat Martial Stalker from PHII is being used. That means ninja levels stack for fighter level requirements concerning feats and fighter levels stacks for Ninja AC Bonus and Ki pool.

    Class:Ninja 12/Fighter 8

    Stats: str 15, dex 16, con 14, int 13, wis 16, cha 11. (+1 str at 4th level +1 to wis at 8th,12th,16th and 20th)
    The skills picked are: Jump, Spot, Search, Escape Artist, Climb, Tumble, Craft Poison, S. Motive (and handle animal for fighter levels). All which at level 20th they have 15 ranks , except for craft poison which is maxed.

    The feats and class features are:
    Human:Dodge
    1st Ninja:Feat:Wild Cohort (Cat),Ninja prof.Ki pool (wis+ ― class),Ac Bonus (wis + 1/5 class),Trapfinding,Sudden Strike +1d6
    2nd Fighter:Bonus Feat:Weapon Focus Scimitar
    3rd Ninja:Feat: Martial Stalker,Ghost Step (invisible)
    4th Ninja:Sudden Strike +2d6,Poison Use
    5th Ninja:Great Leap,AC Bonus:+1
    6th Fighter:Feat:mobility,Bonus feat:Power Attack
    7th Ninja:Sudden Strike +3d6
    8th Ninja:Acrobatics +2,Ki dodge (20%)
    9th Ninja:Feat:W.S:Scimitar,Sudden Strike +4d6,Speed Climb
    10th Fighter:AC Bonus:+2
    11th Ninja:Ghost Strike
    12th Ninja:Feat:Melee Weapon Mastery,Sudden Strike +5d6,Improved Poison Use
    13th Ninja:Ghost Step (Ethereal)
    14th Fighter:Bonus Feat:Spring Attack
    15th Ninja:Sudden Strike +6d6,AC Bonus:+3, Feat:Leap Attack
    16th Ninja:,Acrobatics +4,Evasion
    17th Fighter:
    18th Fighter:Feat:Raptor School,Bonus Feat:Bounding Assault
    19th Fighter:
    20th Fighter:Bonus Feat:Telling Blow,AC Bonus:+4

    Total BAB:17 (+17/+12/+7/+2)
    Total AB/Dmg with Scimitar:+23/1d6+8 (+6d6 Sudden Strike damage)
    Power Attack Bonus Damage:Up to +34. (-17 to attack)
    Total AC Unarmored:20 (+1 Selected Dodge Target)
    HP:Average 79 (+40 con)
    Saves:Fort 10/ Ref 10/Will 6 (+2 to Will as long as I have one Ki point)

    The Books allowed to use are: Complete series (except psionics), Players Handbook II and Players Handbook. The DM already approved the use of Wild Cohort feat.
    XP Penalties For Multiclassing Apply.

    Edited:Removed the Greater W.Focus, W.Spec and W.Sup. Instead Added Power attack, Leap Attack and Telling Blow.
    What Iīm not sure now is if Leap Attack stacks with the maneuver granted by Raptor School, which adds +4 Damage if I make a 25 DC Jump check before attacking. Leap Attack allows to triple the damage of a power attack wielding a weapon with two hands if I charge and make a Jump Check.
    And I added Telling blow just because it allows to add Sudden Strike Damage when I score a Crit Hit (Which with a scimitar is easier than with other weapons),

    Thoughts, suggestions?
    Thanks to everyone for your comments and suggestions.
    Last edited by Velden; 2009-01-19 at 02:20 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Mushroom Ninja's Avatar

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    Mar 2008

    Default Re: Martial Stalker Build

    As a ninja, it's tempting to make a ranged character focused on shooting out tons of arrows/round since sudden strike doesn't trigger from flanking (IIRC).

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Keld Denar's Avatar

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    Default Re: Martial Stalker Build

    Its ok, although its not highly optimized. I don't know what level of play you are at, but if your final level 20 damage MOST of the time is going to be 1d10+10, you are gonna have a hard time contributing much. Sudden Strike is a poor mechanic. It has all of the drawbacks of sneak attack(lots of things are immune to crits/precision damage), except it can't be used while flanking either.

    I'm assuming you are gonna 2hand the bastard sword? Any reason to pick it? A Greatsword is similar, and does 1 more average damage, but thats a minor thing. Bastard Sword does let you get into the Exotic Weapons Master PrC from Complete Warrior, and that nets you 2x damage when 2handing a 1handed exotic weapon. Of course, the you have to spend a feat on EWP: Bastard Sword to make it 1handed, but still, 1 feat for a extra damage is not bad.

    While Weapon Focus and Weapon Spec are generally considered bad, if you are getting Melee Weapon Mastery, then they become a bit more worth it. GWF, GWS, and WS are not though. Spend those feats on other things like Power Attack. That will give you more damage.

    Are you completely married to the Martial Stalker? A Swift Hunter (Ranger/Scout) build would be a lot more mechanically strong, with similar flavor and way fewer weaknesses. First of all, a SH can apply its skirmish damage on things that are normally immune to such damage, based on its favored enemy choices. Martial Stalkers never get their bonus damage against things like plants, undead, oozes, or constructs. You can make them in melee or ranged flavors respectively.

    A lot of the game is determined by what you feel you'll spend a lot of time fighting, and if you end up fighting a few undead, your character is going to end up next to worthless. It'll take you a dozen rounds just to take down a 40 HD (CR12ish) zombie at level 20.

    All that said, Afroakuma has a pretty decent Ninja remake. You can find it here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY!
    _________________________________
    A beholder’s favorite foods include small live mammals, exotic mushrooms and other fungi, gnomes, beef, pork, colorful leafy vegetables, leaves, flower petals, insects, and birds.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Nov 2008

    Default Re: Martial Stalker Build

    What's Wild Cohort from? And your human, so you treat your highest level class as your favored class, therefore, you don't take XP penalties if you only have two classes, no matter the gap. Or was that a house rule that applied it?

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Mushroom Ninja's Avatar

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    Default Re: Martial Stalker Build

    I found a handbook on ninja. It has some good suggestions.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Martial Stalker Build

    Are you completely married to the Martial Stalker? A Swift Hunter (Ranger/Scout) build would be a lot more mechanically strong, with similar flavor and way fewer weaknesses. First of all, a SH can apply its skirmish damage on things that are normally immune to such damage, based on its favored enemy choices. Martial Stalkers never get their bonus damage against things like plants, undead, oozes, or constructs. You can make them in melee or ranged flavors respectively.
    I know that itīs not the best multiclass. But still I wanted to see if itīs possible to make a decent build considering that feat. I already did a swift tracker build and everyone was amazed at how much damage i did with a single manyshot.

    I thought the ability to turn invisible and ethereal would help to overcome the flanking problem. Also the raptor school has a maneuver that allows to make a feint using the BAB instead of Bluff. The use of poisons also I thought would help.
    Mmm, I ignored the undead/plants/constructs inmunities...and those things do appear quite often. Suggestions on which feats to trade?
    Now itīs clear that Power attack is a given at least.

    The DM houseruled that using two-handed weapons would impose a -4 penalty for hiding checks considering itīs size. Thatīs why I opted for a bastard Sword.

    What's Wild Cohort from? And your human, so you treat your highest level class as your favored class, therefore, you don't take XP penalties if you only have two classes, no matter the gap. Or was that a house rule that applied it?
    Wild Cohort is a feat that allows any character to have an animal companion. Here is the link http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a
    I know that there are no problems with 2 classes, but sometimes iīve found builds that have more than four classes and ignore the rule of XP penalty. (Like a friend did when creating his character).

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Keld Denar's Avatar

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    Default Re: Martial Stalker Build

    But but but...a bastard sword IS a 2handed weapon...your logic is a bit fuzzy.

    If you can get any gear, MIC has a lot of good stuff for overcoming SA issues. Deathstrike Bracers are universal, but limited to 3 rounds per day, and consume your swift action, which makes it hard to Ghost Step and whatnot. Greater Augment Crystals get around specific foes, like Undead and Constructs, but I don't think they have ones for plants, oozes, elementals, and then you still have people in Heavy Fortification and Warshapers...

    Sadly, they never made any ninja ACF like a rogue's Penetrating Strike, which allows 1/2 SA vs things you normally can't SA.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY!
    _________________________________
    A beholder’s favorite foods include small live mammals, exotic mushrooms and other fungi, gnomes, beef, pork, colorful leafy vegetables, leaves, flower petals, insects, and birds.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2009

    Thumbs up Re: Martial Stalker Build

    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    But but but...a bastard sword IS a 2handed weapon...your logic is a bit fuzzy.

    If you can get any gear, MIC has a lot of good stuff for overcoming SA issues. Deathstrike Bracers are universal, but limited to 3 rounds per day, and consume your swift action, which makes it hard to Ghost Step and whatnot. Greater Augment Crystals get around specific foes, like Undead and Constructs, but I don't think they have ones for plants, oozes, elementals, and then you still have people in Heavy Fortification and Warshapers...

    Sadly, they never made any ninja ACF like a rogue's Penetrating Strike, which allows 1/2 SA vs things you normally can't SA.
    Well, I guess he was referring to weapons considering their size. The penalty applies to weapons that donīt allow to be used one handed, assuming thatīs because of their size. Granted, a bastard sword still requires a feat to be used one handed, but I guess the penalty is supposed to represent that itīs hard to hide while carrying a big weapon.

    So, it seems definetely most of the abilities will be useless in a fight. Iīll check the other ninja classes you all suggested.
    Thanks!

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Keld Denar's Avatar

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    Default Re: Martial Stalker Build

    No no no no, go back and read the PHB. Bastard Sword falls under the Exotic 2handed Weapons table. It is, for your purposes, a 2handed weapon, unless there is something I'm missing?
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY!
    _________________________________
    A beholder’s favorite foods include small live mammals, exotic mushrooms and other fungi, gnomes, beef, pork, colorful leafy vegetables, leaves, flower petals, insects, and birds.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Pixie in the Playground
    Join Date
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    Thumbs up Re: Martial Stalker Build

    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    No no no no, go back and read the PHB. Bastard Sword falls under the Exotic 2handed Weapons table. It is, for your purposes, a 2handed weapon, unless there is something I'm missing?
    As I see it in the PHB, Bastard Sword is in the One-handed Melee Exotic weapons table. The only exotic sword that is two-handed is the Two-Bladed Sword, which would recieve the houseruled penalty.
    And no, youīre right regarding that it is two handed if we only consider proficency purposes.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Keld Denar's Avatar

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    Default Re: Martial Stalker Build

    Triple checks.....

    Huh, when did they put that there?

    Oh well...carry on!
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY!
    _________________________________
    A beholder’s favorite foods include small live mammals, exotic mushrooms and other fungi, gnomes, beef, pork, colorful leafy vegetables, leaves, flower petals, insects, and birds.

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