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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Moonshadow's Avatar

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    Default About the Bluff skill.

    Is it possible to get it high enough that you could convince an NPC that you were invisible?

    And thn use that opportunity to beat the crud out of them/rob them blind?
    Witness my glory and know that when my darkness fades, if you yet live, it is because an ally does not.

    AN EMPTY SPOT WITHIN MY CRAW CRAVES YOUR FLESH, YOUR BONES BLED RAW!
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  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Seffbasilisk's Avatar

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    Default Re: About the Bluff skill.

    Heck, use Glibness, and so long as the NPC was willing to listen to you (perhaps using the Mosquito's bite skilltrick from Complete Scoundrel) you could.
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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: About the Bluff skill.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seffbasilisk View Post
    Heck, use Glibness, and so long as the NPC was willing to listen to you (perhaps using the Mosquito's bite skilltrick from Complete Scoundrel) you could.
    Assuming you can bypass the DM's "NO Stick," of course.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    xPANCAKEx's Avatar

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    Default Re: About the Bluff skill.

    the wrath of the no stick is to be feared
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  5. - Top - End - #5
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: About the Bluff skill.

    Does anyone actually read the PHB anymore, instead of just skimming the SRD?

    Quote Originally Posted by The PHB
    A successful Bluff check indicates
    that the target reacts as you wish, at
    least for a short time (usually
    1 round or less) or believes
    something that you want it to
    believe. Bluff, however, is not a
    suggestion spell. For example, you could
    use bluff to put a shopkeeper off guard
    by saying that his shoes are untied. At
    best, such a bluff would make the
    shopkeeper glance down at his
    shoes. It would not cause him to
    ignore you and fiddle with his
    shoes.
    Darn kids!

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: About the Bluff skill.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Glyphstone View Post
    Does anyone actually read the PHB anymore, instead of just skimming the SRD?



    Darn kids!
    Except he said "Sufficiently large". Therefore:
    Epic usages of Bluff
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  7. - Top - End - #7
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Jasdoif's Avatar

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    Default Re: About the Bluff skill.

    If you can handle the target getting a +50 on its Sense Motive check, you can use Bluff to instill a suggestion.

    Of course, this relies on your DM agreeing that epic skill usages such as Bluff's can be used by nonepic characters, but hey.

    EDIT: ...now how'd I get ninja'd on that one?
    Last edited by Jasdoif; 2009-01-20 at 12:02 AM.
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  8. - Top - End - #8
    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: About the Bluff skill.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    EDIT: ...now how'd I get ninja'd on that one?
    Everything is possible as long as the personCs in the question are sufficiently epic.
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  9. - Top - End - #9
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Kroy's Avatar

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    Default Re: About the Bluff skill.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    EDIT: ...now how'd I get ninja'd on that one?
    Ninjas are sneaky indeed. Also, sig'd.
    Last edited by Kroy; 2009-01-20 at 12:10 AM.
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  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Moonshadow's Avatar

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    Default Re: About the Bluff skill.

    I've never played 3.5, or read the books for it, so I have no idea how Bluff works.


    I just thought it would be cool if you could ocnvince someone that you weren't there, just by talking >>
    Witness my glory and know that when my darkness fades, if you yet live, it is because an ally does not.

    AN EMPTY SPOT WITHIN MY CRAW CRAVES YOUR FLESH, YOUR BONES BLED RAW!
    YOUR FEAR! YOUR FEAR! SO SWEET! SO STRONG! TO TEASE MY TONGUE, YOUR LIVES ARE GONE!
    YOUR ODDS UNFAVORED, MY WEB TOO STRONG! SPEED WON'T NEGATE A LINE STEPPED WRONG!
    YOU DARE? DARE SMITE THIS AWESOME BEAST? YOUR FATES ARE SEALED AS MY NEXT FEAST!
    HEED THIS BECK AND HEAR THIS CALL! FIGHT ME STILL, YOUR WILLS SHALL FALL!

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Draz74's Avatar

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    Default Re: About the Bluff skill.

    I think it's possible to convince an NPC that you sincerely think you're invisible. But that's it, except maybe with the epic check. And if they can see you perfectly well, but you convince them you think you're invisible, they'll tag you for a loony pronto.
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  12. - Top - End - #12
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    HalfOrcPirate

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    Default Re: About the Bluff skill.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lappy9000 View Post
    Assuming you can bypass the DM's "NO Stick," of course.
    Only if you play with a DM that is so intent on ignoring the rules that he disallows legitimate applications of skills.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Banned
     
    Zeful's Avatar

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    Default Re: About the Bluff skill.

    Quote Originally Posted by malcolm View Post
    Only if you play with a DM that is so intent on ignoring the rules that he disallows legitimate applications of skills.
    Talking someone into believing your invisible is not a legitimate use of the skill.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Rad's Avatar

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    Default Re: About the Bluff skill.

    you could still have them believe that you are an illusion or a dream (as Haley does in otOotPC).
    Knowledge, logic, reason, and common sense serve better than a dozen rule books.
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  15. - Top - End - #15
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Goblin

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    Default Re: About the Bluff skill.

    Well, you can backstab with a ballista. So why not bluff...

    I don't know about epic-level bluffs, but trying to convince someone you are an illusion is something I might allow, with a terrible penalty to success and if the person is of a suitable level. (prolly 10+)

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: About the Bluff skill.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    Of course, this relies on your DM agreeing that epic skill usages such as Bluff's can be used by nonepic characters, but hey.
    Epic feats require that characters be of epic level. Epic skills have no such requirment. That's part of the 3.5 rules, and no DM alteration of those rules is required.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Banned
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: About the Bluff skill.

    Quote Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
    Epic feats require that characters be of epic level. Epic skills have no such requirment. That's part of the 3.5 rules, and no DM alteration of those rules is required.
    Most of the epic skill uses should, by rights, come into play pre-epic. I mean, a 15th level character is already supposed to be able to do outlandish, larger-than-life stuff. Skill DCs just don't reflect that.

    As for convincing someone you're invisible. See the section on penalties for unbelievable bluffs (-20 IIRC). Heck, stage magicians can fool the eye; so why not high-level skill monkeys?

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Jasdoif's Avatar

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    Default Re: About the Bluff skill.

    Quote Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
    Epic feats require that characters be of epic level. Epic skills have no such requirment. That's part of the 3.5 rules, and no DM alteration of those rules is required.
    Yeah, I know. But at the same time, I can easily see a DM deciding "It says epic so you need to be epic" instead. Particularly if they thought they wouldn't need any part of the epic rules of their game.

    Also, the statement made a handy segue to a link for the epic skill rules.
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  19. - Top - End - #19
    Titan in the Playground
     
    PirateCaptain

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    Default Re: About the Bluff skill.

    I once heard a story about somebody bluffing a BBEG into believing they (The BBEG) didn't exist.
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  20. - Top - End - #20
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    HalfOrcPirate

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    Default Re: About the Bluff skill.

    You could convince them that they're talking to an illusion.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: About the Bluff skill.

    As a DM offten with a nasty rouge infection, I play bluff by my own rules. First off, if you are proven wrong, you automaticly fail.

    example, a rouge walks up to a NPC and claims to be their long lost child, no matter what the PC rolls, if the NPC is chaste or whatever, it just will not work. And any fallow up lies such as "Wait, what I reapy mean Im your nephew" will fail as well

    Also common sense preveils. Walking up to a town gaurd and telling him that it would be a good idea for him to give you his sword, doesnt work. But tricking him into beleiving that somebody is trying to hurt you is alot easier.


    When in doubt, **** with the DC, like the DC for telling somebody you are accualy invisable has a DC of ab out 87
    PC 1- *singing" Robin hood and little John running through the forest trying to get away...
    PC 2- Hey, you are right, this reminds me of that too.
    DM- Except that the king was king 348 years ago, and has undead powers...

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Banned
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: About the Bluff skill.

    Quote Originally Posted by Avor View Post
    example, a rouge walks up to a NPC and claims to be their long lost child, no matter what the PC rolls...
    That's why you tell it to the guards instead...


    Seriously though, neither Bluff nor Diplomacy are supposed to violate common sense, even at epic levels. You can't use either to convince someone that the sky overhead is green instead of blue. (Although you could probably distract them briefly with that whole "Well how do you know what you call blue doesn't look like what you call green to me!?" line, if they are inclined to be distracted.)

    Once magic enters the mix, of course, you can do any impossible thing you like.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PirateGuy

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    Default Re: About the Bluff skill.

    Quote Originally Posted by Avor View Post
    As a DM offten with a nasty rouge infection, I play bluff by my own rules. First off, if you are proven wrong, you automaticly fail.

    example, a rouge walks up to a NPC and claims to be their long lost child, no matter what the PC rolls, if the NPC is chaste or whatever, it just will not work. And any fallow up lies such as "Wait, what I reapy mean Im your nephew" will fail as well

    Also common sense preveils. Walking up to a town gaurd and telling him that it would be a good idea for him to give you his sword, doesnt work. But tricking him into beleiving that somebody is trying to hurt you is alot easier.


    When in doubt, **** with the DC, like the DC for telling somebody you are accualy invisable has a DC of ab out 87
    I agree with the general sentiment here, but I think your example is flawed.

    Consider:
    "I'm your son!"
    "But I've been chaste all my life!"
    "You were under the charms of a wizard at the time, who erased your memory afterwards!"

    This is certainly a hard-to-believe bluff, and would thus receive a -20 on the check, but it's enough to go from "It couldn't be!" to "Hmm..."
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  24. - Top - End - #24
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Telonius's Avatar

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    Default Re: About the Bluff skill.

    Quote Originally Posted by Draz74 View Post
    I think it's possible to convince an NPC that you sincerely think you're invisible. But that's it, except maybe with the epic check. And if they can see you perfectly well, but you convince them you think you're invisible, they'll tag you for a loony pronto.
    Well, it's possible.

    Harvey the Rogue: Really, I'm invisible, except to you. Only you can see me!
    Elwood: (whiffs his sense motive) ... you know, that's just crazy enough to work.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: About the Bluff skill.

    Well, depends on how you are trying to bluff.
    If the person in question can't see you, but can hear you, you could bluff the person to believe that you were invisible. Use a spell or ability to make your voice come from another source than yourself, and he would turn that way, enabling you to sneak behind his back.
    You could also try to convince the person that you were an illusion.
    But you can't make him believe that he isn't seeing you when in fact he is.
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  26. - Top - End - #26
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Starbuck_II's Avatar

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    Default Re: About the Bluff skill.

    That reminds me of a Pot head in Philosophy class: who during a discussion actually ran out of the room saying: I don't exist.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: About the Bluff skill.

    Personally, something I want to atleast try to do is if somebody gets a VERY high roll on a bluff check they BS the world into believing it's true.

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