[3.5]Playing awakened animals

[Darth Stabber]

So in an upcomming game I would like to play an awakened Squirrel wizard, What are the ECL rules for awakened critters. (if this works i want to play an awakened wolf totemist after that)

[FMArthur]

I'd really like to play an awakened animal, too (a bat!) but the fact that you are tiny or diminutive actually helps you so much that I'd just keep the two racial HD granted from Awaken. For a squirrel... maybe one? I think Dragon had an issue covering this, didn't it?

[Alleine]

Awaken spell. The problem is the stats for a squirrel. You may have to make them yourself, or find if anyone has homebrewed squirrels because they are not, to my knowledge, in any WotC books.
The HD will hurt a lot as a wizard because you'll be behind the rest of the party in terms of power for awhile.

[LordZarth]

I am also interested in this. I couldn't really understand Savage Species, though. Could someone tell me how to play an awakened ___? LA? Help!

[Starscream]

Have you considered applying the Anthropomorphic template from Savage Species instead of being Awakened? Seems like it would be a little bit simpler to play.

I don't know of any source book that contains squirrels, but you could use the entry for Anthropomorphic Rat and just re-skin it.

Lessee, that would be No Level Adjustment (which is nice), Small size, -4 STR, +2 DEX, +4 WIS, -4 CHA. Strength and Charisma aren't very important to wizards, so that's okay. Only downside is that your speed would be only 15 feet, because that's the speed a normal rat has.

But maybe a squirrel is faster (they certainly are in real life), so if you add the template to one of those you'd get a better speed anyway. Where are you finding the stats for a squirrel?

[Shalizar]

Lol, I used to play a Squirrel Rogue that would have a 25% chance of being scared of anyone or thing medium size or larger. It pissed off so many of the other gamers when i was scared of half the party and i wouldnt participate in combate (10% chance of that happening), but i just used a template that gave me +4 dex -2 strength and a few other things, if you like i can post the template on here, it is a +1 CR

[RTGoodman]

Awaken spell. The problem is the stats for a squirrel. You may have to make them yourself, or find if anyone has homebrewed squirrels because they are not, to my knowledge, in any WotC books

Just use the stats for a Monkey. It's basically a Tiny Animal that can climb, and has no other real features. Barring that, a Weasel (with or without the Attach ability) should work. Everything else you need to know is the in the description of the awaken spell.

Of course, like Starscream said, the Anthropomorphic Animals from Savage Species might be a better choice. Luckily for you, the Monkey and Weasel I mentioned above are both on the chart and have no LA or anything. They do get a boost up to Small size rather than Tiny, though.

[Darth Stabber]

I am going to push for this Version of squirrel

Race - Squirrel
Statmods - +4 dex, -2 str, -2 con
Size - Tiny
Speed - 20
Skill Bonuses - +4racial to Hide, move silently, Balance, climb(may use dex instead of str)
natural weapon - 1d3 + str bite attack
favored class - Rogue

[Darrin]

Awaken spell. The problem is the stats for a squirrel. You may have to make them yourself, or find if anyone has homebrewed squirrels because they are not, to my knowledge, in any WotC books.

There are stats for squirrels in several issues of Dragon magazine... #280, I think, and a flying squirrel in #327.

If you want to go really weird, try the Skiurid (MMIV, p. 126). Evil darkness-infused squirrels. I think you'd need the spell "Awaken Magical Beast" (Dragon #304).

[Devils_Advocate]

Observations:

Lycanthropes all have the same level adjustment, in addition to a variable number of animal hit dice. It's apparently assumed that the improved stats and number of animal hit dice you have to take roughly balance each other out to about the same degree in each case.

An awakened animal differs from a lycanthrope created by applying the lycanthrope template to a LA +0 humanoid most notably as follows:

- Animal form only.
- No bonus natural armor or damage reduction.
- No racial traits from a humanoid or giant race.
- Type is magical beast (augmented animal) rather than humanoid (shapechanger).
- Two additional animal hit dice.
- Lower Cha and maybe higher Wis. (Depends on the animal.)

All things considered, I'd say that these changes warrant dropping the LA from +2 or +3 to +0. So a Tiny to Large awakened animal should be playable at LA +0. Smaller or bigger animals might warrant more LA, since big size modifiers in either direction can be quite beneficial, and that's beyond the bounds of what you can get by lycathopizing a LA +0 race (unless there are any Tiny or Large LA +0 humanoids or giants out there).

To get the stat adjustments for an awakened animal race, do the following:

1. Start with the normal animal's stat block.
2. Add two animal hit dice, making appropriate changes to BAB and base saving throws. Do not alter the creature's size. If the animal has a fraction of a hit die, simply increase its HD to 2 instead. (I'm pretty sure that an creature with a fraction of a hit die is treated as having 1 HD for most purposes (skills, saves, etc.) already.)
3. Increase Intelligence score to 10. Increase Charisma score by 2.
4. Change type to magical beast (augmented animal).
5. Take this adjusted stat block and convert it into a list of racial traits as normal.

[Tempest Fennac]

Those stats look good, Darth (I'd only give it a 1 HP bite attack, though, and you may want to consider letting that version have claw attacks). A while back I decided to convert my freeform fennec fox character for a D&D game (which wasn't hard because I already statted him out while uing him in HALO), and I came up with these stat adjustments for fennecs as a race: http://forum.mydndgame.com/index.php...3.html#msg4263 (the character could also talk and use Mage Hand at will. I houserules that animals are sentinet while having average Int and Cha stats of 10 due to hating the normal rules, though.)

[Avor]

Shame on all you, wanting to play an animal just for the cheezy AC bonus and ability to hide under a dresser. If you were one of my players I would slap you stupid or have your ass eaten by a pack of stray dogs.

Real ****ing character depth, a squirrel that some how can huck lightning bolts! A character that has a natural life span of 3-6 years.

[Tempest Fennac]

I don't really see why it would be that much of a problem (my stance is that it can be fun to try unusual characters).

[JeminiZero]

Real ****ing character depth, a squirrel that some how can huck lightning bolts!

Sounds like a Pikachu. Really though, a tiny animal Wizard would probably be closer to Mew.

[Darth Stabber]

Shame on all you, wanting to play an animal just for the cheezy AC bonus and ability to hide under a dresser. If you were one of my players I would slap you stupid or have your ass eaten by a pack of stray dogs.

Real ****ing character depth, a squirrel that some how can huck lightning bolts! A character that has a natural life span of 3-6 years.

Dude I don't want to be tiny for powergamming reasons. I just thought that a squirrel wizard would be amuzing. And as far as natural lifespan, when has that ever concerned a PC wizard, besides I going to become a Lich eventually, barring death in a fight or an acorn shortage, so i think that is not really my concern. If you don't already believe that I am not doing this for cheese reasons consider these facts: I don't even have access to the complete arcane or whatever book the Incatrix is in. I plan on paying full price for any metamagic i plan on using (no cheese reductions), and i might not even prestige. The fact that I have a concept that might be good if i was munchkin it up, doesn't mean I'll do it. besides, everyone knows that Humans are Redunkulously broken.

[Fixer]

Once I got to play an awakened monkey rogue (used the anthropomorphic template, though, and just left him a monkey instead of anthropomorphisized). His combat tactics were always to hide in the rafters (or up a wall, or whatever happened to be handy) and snipe using a sling with rocks. His Hide bonus was so high the -20 penalty never really bothered him so he always got massive sneak attack damage.

He always hung out with the cleric, who convinced everyone she was a wizard (Travel and Trickery domains) and I was her familiar, who she had had enchanted to speak. We had a blast.

[bosssmiley]

I think Scott of OD&D Wilderlands handled this best (except possibly for the Kurt Russell references... ... ).

Just refluff (no pun intended) a 3E halfling, gnome or kobold as a furry giant talking squirrel and you're away. After all, one form of stunted, chittering vermin is much like any other.

Avoid the crack-house of LA lunacy that is "Savage Species" at all costs.

[Fhaolan]

I just picked up this: Noble Wild

The rules for playing 'Noble Animals' should be able to be used for any kind of intelligent animal, like awakened animals or those whose DM has a sense of humour around 00 on the reincarnate table... Not mentioning names...

I haven't had a chance to playtest it yet, but I'm not seeing anything obviously wrong with it on read-through. I'm not convinced of the magic transparency stuff in it, though.

[Blackfang108]

Shame on all you, wanting to play an animal just for the cheezy AC bonus and ability to hide under a dresser. If you were one of my players I would slap you stupid or have your ass eaten by a pack of stray dogs.

Real ****ing character depth, a squirrel that some how can huck lightning bolts! A character that has a natural life span of 3-6 years.

*dumps a bucket of ice cold water on the fire*

There, now that that's out...

If you don't like it, you don't have to allow it.

I had a good idea for an awakened Dire Wolf in a campaign, and my DM nixed it.

but if you hate it so much, take it outside.

[Diarmuid]

I guess the big question would be why would a Druid randomly awaken a squirrell and leave it to it's own designs, and then even if the squirrell were able to survive...how would it get a wizard to teach it magic? It's not like it's got anything of value to the wizard to trade.

[phoenixcire]

Well that's simple enough. The druid has no control over the awakened animal. If the roll for Int is high (16-18) I'm sure it's brilliance would quite easily make the wizard curious enough to see if it were able to be taught the magical arts. Especially if the animal is asking to be taught.

[Lycanthromancer]

Of course, the squirrel doesn't have to be a wizard, if this is an issue. Psion, sorcerer, bard, druid, artificer...It could be any number of other classes that don't require large amounts of study and a spellbook.

In fact, the idea of a rodent artificer in-game is hilarious.

[Darth Stabber]

I think Squirrel Dread Necromancer might be the win.

Who would suspect that the innocent squirrel was behind the massive undead invasion. Teach you to hide my nuts. Plus that feat from liber mortis that makes negative energy heal me and positive energy hurt. Complete Cheese with Dread Necro, so i probably won't do it, but it's nice to know that if i'm injured all i have to do is touch myself. wow the inuendo possibilities are too great now must stop.

[Avor]

Dude I don't want to be tiny for powergamming reasons. I just thought that a squirrel wizard would be amuzing. And as far as natural lifespan, when has that ever concerned a PC wizard, besides I going to become a Lich eventually, barring death in a fight or an acorn shortage, so i think that is not really my concern. If you don't already believe that I am not doing this for cheese reasons consider these facts: I don't even have access to the complete arcane or whatever book the Incatrix is in. I plan on paying full price for any metamagic i plan on using (no cheese reductions), and i might not even prestige. The fact that I have a concept that might be good if i was munchkin it up, doesn't mean I'll do it. besides, everyone knows that Humans are Redunkulously broken.

Even if your doing it for other reason, you still have something that is cheezy by it's very nature. You have a the same level of magic as any other user of magic, but you get AC bonus, skill bonuses to things like hide, and an animal you are over looked by NPCs.

Doesn't matter anymore, you can't be a squirrel wizard, you need to use a spell book. As squirrel you have no opposable thumbs, there is no item you can realy use.

You could be a sorcerer or what not, but that would realy make you some kind of pikachu knock off.

I guess the big question would be why would a Druid randomly awaken a squirrell and leave it to it's own designs, and then even if the squirrell were able to survive...how would it get a wizard to teach it magic? It's not like it's got anything of value to the wizard to trade.

Well wizards are not sane, not a single goddammed one of them. They would teach a animal magic just for ****s and giggles.

One of my points is that it takes years of learning to become even a level 1 wizzard

Once I got to play an awakened monkey rogue (used the anthropomorphic template, though, and just left him a monkey instead of anthropomorphisized). His combat tactics were always to hide in the rafters (or up a wall, or whatever happened to be handy) and snipe using a sling with rocks. His Hide bonus was so high the -20 penalty never really bothered him so he always got massive sneak attack damage.

Exactly the kind of lameness I objecct to.

[Tempest Fennac]

I had the same squirrel Dread Necromancer idea for dealing with annoying players, Darth (squirrels are one of my favourite animals behind fennec foxes). I'd say squirrel hands are developed enough to allow you to open a small spell book without any problems (their claws are sharp, though). You could rle that the squrrel's "spellbook" is actually in his head to eliminate the need for a book.

[Darth Stabber]

So Wizard is out, Sorc, Warmage(funny image in my brain), beguiler (interesting possibility), Dread Necro (already "touched" on), bard (yes my courage has been inspired by a dancing squirrel), Cleric (imagining a squirrel in tiny fullplate praising Ehlona for a bounty of nuts), Druid (Obviously to perpetuate this rise of squirrels), Warlock, Psion, wilder, or maybe a Dragon Shaman (firebreathing squirrel).

[RTGoodman]

Even if your doing it for other reason, you still have something that is cheezy by it's very nature. You have a the same level of magic as any other user of magic, but you get AC bonus, skill bonuses to things like hide, and an animal you are over looked by NPCs.

I'm gonna go ahead and say it's NOT really that cheesy. He does get some decent bonuses, but there's also a lot of drawbacks. Like a Strength of 3. Good luck carrying, well, much of anything. Yeah, it's probably a better choice for a caster than for anyone else, but it's D&D 3.x - casters ALWAYS end up better.

Doesn't matter anymore, you can't be a squirrel wizard, you need to use a spell book. As squirrel you have no opposable thumbs, there is no item you can realy use.

Are you his DM? If so, you're in the clear to rule that way. If not, I think you're just wrong. It's not THAT hard to turn a page without opposable thumbs (especially as a squirrel who has practiced doing that very thing), and even if it were there's a set of gloves in Savage Species that give animals opposable thumbs. Gloves of man, I think they're called. And if that wouldn't be allowed, look in Complete Arcane - there's a whole chapter of "alternate spellbooks," from beaded, knotted string to body tattoos and all sorts of other stuff. Maybe your squirrel wizard has his spells carved into some acorn shells that he lugs around?

You could be a sorcerer or what not, but that would realy make you some kind of pikachu knock off.

Well wizards are not sane, not a single goddammed one of them. They would teach a animal magic just for ****s and giggles.

One of my points is that it takes years of learning to become even a level 1 wizzard

There's absolutely NOTHING by RAW that says that. A character can spend years as a Rogue and then, suddenly, after beating up a goblin, have a revelation that leads him to be a Wizard right then and there.

And God forbid we handwave something that has absolutely no game effect so someone can play a character they want. I mean, seriously, the idea is kinda silly (and D&D has that in spades anyway), but it's not gamebreaking.

[Nada Rakshasa]

As for the question of why a druid would leave an awakened beast up to its own devices: Perhaps in a last-ditch effort to end a conflict a druid (or group of druids) cast Mass Awaken, using a forest and its inhabitants as recruits in its efforts. Regardless of whether their endeavor was successful or not, it would result in a large number of awakened beings running around.

Just a thought.

[Blackfang108]

Even if your doing it for other reason, you still have something that is cheezy by it's very nature. You have a the same level of magic as any other user of magic, but you get AC bonus, skill bonuses to things like hide, and an animal you are over looked by NPCs.

Doesn't matter anymore, you can't be a squirrel wizard, you need to use a spell book. As squirrel you have no opposable thumbs, there is no item you can realy use.

You could be a sorcerer or what not, but that would realy make you some kind of pikachu knock off.

Well wizards are not sane, not a single goddammed one of them. They would teach a animal magic just for ****s and giggles.

One of my points is that it takes years of learning to become even a level 1 wizzard

Exactly the kind of lameness I objecct to.

This is exactly the kind of DMing I object to.

At least when my Awakened Dire Wolf for an ECL 22 game was shot down, I was given a reason aside from a thinly veiled "I hate the idea because I think it's cheesy so there's no way I'm going to allow it."

If you were my DM, I would leave the group and find a new one.

[Avor]

I'm gonna go ahead and say it's NOT really that cheesy. He does get some decent bonuses, but there's also a lot of drawbacks. Like a Strength of 3. Good luck carrying, well, much of anything. Yeah, it's probably a better choice for a caster than for anyone else, but it's D&D 3.x - casters ALWAYS end up better.

The only real draw back is that he can't use items, like wands and magical items, unless he has them custom made.

A STR 3 means nothing when you and all your possesions can be carried in the pocket of the party's meat shield.

Are you his DM? If so, you're in the clear to rule that way. If not, I think you're just wrong. It's not THAT hard to turn a page without opposable thumbs (especially as a squirrel who has practiced doing that very thing), and even if it were

Part of haveing a spell book is useing to caste spell, and write down new spells. I have a hard time immagining a squirrel writting down spells in a 1 inch spell book

Maybe your squirrel wizard has his spells carved into some acorn shells that he lugs around?

Spellbook = Nut sack

hmm

There's absolutely NOTHING by RAW that says that. A character can spend years as a Rogue and then, suddenly, after beating up a goblin, have a revelation that leads him to be a Wizard right then and there.

Well in the PHB I think there are recomended minimum age for your class, showing that wizzards learn magic through arcane study, they dont just wake up one morning and discover they can blow lightning out their ass like a sorcerer,

Also, even though the rules may say "*Ding* You level up and now know magic!", It's a very unfluffly way to put thing. The last time something like this happened to me, the player told be ahead of time he wanted to multiclass, and I was able to work it into the game so by the time they leveled up he already spent alot of time with mages, and they offered to train him.

Yes spending a month hanging with mages, fallowed by a week long crash corse in magic isn't much compaired to years of study, but makes alot morre sense than **Poof!* I suddenly know magic*

This is exactly the kind of DMing I object to.

At least when my Awakened Dire Wolf for an ECL 22 game was shot down, I was given a reason aside from a thinly veiled "I hate the idea because I think it's cheesy so there's no way I'm going to allow it."

If you were my DM, I would leave the group and find a new one.

If you were in my group I would hope you wouldn't elect me DM in the first place! I miss playing.

BTW, I would not realy objecr to your wolf, of course I would look it over. But something like the squirrel mage is nothing but a whole bunch of advantages, but with no real/aplicablel penitalies or disadvantages