AoOs and 0 HP (3.5)

[Shades of Gray]

This came up in a game.

Let's say my paladin moves up to a kobold for a melee attack, unfortunately, he gets an AoO. The kobold gets a lucky crit, bringing my paladin to 0 HP. At 0 HP, one can make a single move action or a single attack action in a turn. If I already moved (to provoke the AoO), can I make an attack? The DM ruled no, and I'm not sure if this was fair, just wondering.

[Rei_Jin]

Whatever the DM decides is fair.

*Nods*

But, from a Rules perspectice, if you're playing in D&D 3.5 and you move to attack someone, provoking an AoO where the subsequent hit drops you to exactly 0hp, you can do one of two things, depending on the situation things.

1. If you've finished moving when you provoke the AoO, you can make a single attack

2. If you haven't finished moving, you can either attack OR move. Not both.


A charge changes this, because a Charge is a full round action. As a DM, I'd allow you to finish your move, and THEN act as if you have 0hp, IF you were charging an opponent.

[Nohwl]

i didnt think you provoked attacks of opportunity by moving into a combat square. i thought it was only moving out of one. does the kobold have a reach weapon?

[Starbuck_II]

This came up in a game.

Let's say my paladin moves up to a kobold for a melee attack, unfortunately, he gets an AoO. The kobold gets a lucky crit, bringing my paladin to 0 HP. At 0 HP, one can make a single move action or a single attack action in a turn. If I already moved (to provoke the AoO), can I make an attack? The DM ruled no, and I'm not sure if this was fair, just wondering.

So if I unerstand the DMs ruling:
You already moved so since at 0 you can either move or attack: you retroactively wasted your other action.
Hmm, it could be interpreted either way: one hand, I think that the condition should only limit you after you have it, but neither is easy to point out.

[Shades of Gray]

I had to move through an ally to get to a square in which I could attack the kobold.

[Mando Knight]

I had to move through an ally to get to a square in which I could attack the kobold.

Was said ally's space within the kobold's reach?

[Burley]

Moving through an ally's square means... nothing. In fact, the rules say you can move through an allied AND nothing happens.
Did you do something specific to provoke the attack, or did the DM just say "you moved through an allies square which provokes"?

[Person_Man]

Let this be a lesson to you - always invest in Tumble, even if it's cross class and you're wearing heavy armor. DC 15 isn't hard to make. And even if you only avoid AoO 30% of the time, that's still plenty of attacks that you otherwise won't have to deal with.

[Renegade Paladin]

Whatever the DM decides is fair.

*Nods*

Incorrect. Whatever the DM decides is right; that doesn't make it fair.

[Tokiko Mima]

This came up in a game.

Let's say my paladin moves up to a kobold for a melee attack, unfortunately, he gets an AoO. The kobold gets a lucky crit, bringing my paladin to 0 HP. At 0 HP, one can make a single move action or a single attack action in a turn. If I already moved (to provoke the AoO), can I make an attack? The DM ruled no, and I'm not sure if this was fair, just wondering.

Assuming that you did trigger an AoO that brought you to 0 HP, then you would be subject to being disabled and all the limitations that entails. However, as others have pointed out it doesn't look like the situation you are describing would ordinarily trigger an AoO, unless the kobold had a reach weapon.

Provoking an Attack of Opportunity

Two kinds of actions can provoke attacks of opportunity: moving out of a threatened square and performing an action within a threatened square.

Moving
Moving out of a threatened square usually provokes an attack of opportunity from the threatening opponent. There are two common methods of avoiding such an attack—the 5-foot step and the withdraw action.

Performing a Distracting Act
Some actions, when performed in a threatened square, provoke attacks of opportunity as you divert your attention from the battle. Actions in Combat notes many of the actions that provoke attacks of opportunity.

Remember that even actions that normally provoke attacks of opportunity may have exceptions to this rule.

It's also worth noting that you can only provoke one AoO for moving per round from a single creature, i.e. if a dragon has a reach of 5 squares, you could move around inside his threatened area as much as you like once you've taken the first AoO for moving out of your first threatened space. The dragon only gets a single AoO for your movement, even if the dragon has Combat Reflexes or a way to get multiples AoO's in a round.

[Talic]

People are misinterpreting the disabled status condition. It's being said that "while disabled, you can only take a move or standard action."

Very close, but there's an important difference. People with this mentality consider the start time to be when the player is disabled.

A character with 0 hit points, or one who has negative hit points but has become stable and conscious, is disabled. A disabled character may take a single move action or standard action each round (but not both, nor can she take full-round actions). She moves at half speed. Taking move actions doesn’t risk further injury, but performing any standard action (or any other action the game master deems strenuous, including some free actions such as casting a quickened spell) deals 1 point of damage after the completion of the act. Unless the action increased the disabled character’s hit points, she is now in negative hit points and dying.

So you ask yourself after the AoO.

Am I disabled? Yes.
Have I taken a move or standard action this round? Yes.
Since the above are true, the player is no longer allowed to make both, or full round actions. (Note: It's worth mentioning that readying an action to hit a character that's performing a full round action will fizzle the action, as they can no longer perform those when disabled.)

The rules measure the number of actions taken each round whenever the character is disabled... Even when those actions may be performed prior to being disabled.

DM was technically correct in his ruling.

[Neek]

This came up in a game.

Let's say my paladin moves up to a kobold for a melee attack, unfortunately, he gets an AoO. The kobold gets a lucky crit, bringing my paladin to 0 HP. At 0 HP, one can make a single move action or a single attack action in a turn. If I already moved (to provoke the AoO), can I make an attack? The DM ruled no, and I'm not sure if this was fair, just wondering.

Something's fishy about this statement, and everyone else noted it. You provoked an AoO by approaching an enemy, which seems odd. moving through a square occupied by an ally does not, as far as I know, provoke an AoO. And if you end your round in a square threatening an enemy, you do not provoke an attack from that enemy (such as move into a threatened square and hold your action).

Now, if you move through a square that an enemy threatens, such as with a reach weapon, to get to the square that threatens him without a reach weapon, you will provoke an attack of opportunity.

It's also worth noting that you can only provoke one AoO for moving per round from a single creature, i.e. if a dragon has a reach of 5 squares, you could move around inside his threatened area as much as you like once you've taken the first AoO for moving out of your first threatened space. The dragon only gets a single AoO for your movement, even if the dragon has Combat Reflexes or a way to get multiples AoO's in a round.

lolwhut. Please cite this, because not even in the Rules Compendium does it state this.

Edit:

Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn’t count as more than one opportunity for that opponent

Nevermind, I found it. Explained this way makes a little more sense.

[Dairun Cates]

You know. I disagree with the ruling, but this should have some up since nothing you mentioned should provoke an AoO. This situation shouldn't come up. If he had a reach weapon, you weren't in range when the AoO provoked and therefore would need to finish the move action. If the Kobold didn't have a reach weapon, you'd really only get AoO from a buddy whose square you passed through or a few other specific rules that don't apply here.

Really, I can't think of a situation where this should legitimately come up if you understand AoO.

[Hawriel]

The DMs rule is fair, and right about attacking after being dropped with an AoO. I have one good reason why the DM is being fair. If the PCs can do it so can the NPCs.

If you insist on the the DM ruling that you still got your attack. Then expect all NPCs getting an attack every time you drop them to 0 with an AoO on the NPC's turn. In the long run who do you think is going to get more AoOs? Your single PC or the group of NPCs?

comment on movment provoking.

Yes all characters PC or NPC get ONE AoO per turn. Unless they have a feat, class ability, racial, or some other special ability giving them more. You can posibly run a circle around an NPC provoking one aoo. I just wouldnt count on it 100% of the time. DMs are known to customize the badguys. You never know when a dragon or a giant with a long spear might have combat relfexes.

[Fax Celestis]

Yes all characters PC or NPC get ONE AoO per turn. Unless they have a feat, class ability, racial, or some other special ability giving them more. You can posibly run a circle around an NPC provoking one aoo. I just wouldnt count on it 100% of the time. DMs are known to customize the badguys. You never know when a dragon or a giant with a long spear might have combat relfexes.

...that's all well and good except for the fact that no action (including an extended move action) never provokes an AoO from the same attacker twice.

Combat Reflexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity

If you have the Combat Reflexes feat you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity). Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn’t count as more than one opportunity for that opponent. All these attacks are at your full normal attack bonus.

[Keld Denar]

...that's all well and good except for the fact that no action never provokes an AoO from the same attacker twice.

You silly kids and your double negatives. When I was young, we said what we ment, and we ment it!

And this whole thing gets really wonky when you factor in the Staggering Strike feat. Staggered is almost exactly like Disabled, except for the bleeding to death part.

If you are invisible, and someone charges past you, provoking a sneaky AoO, and you hit them hard enough to make them fail their fort save, what happens to the charge?

[UserClone]

You silly kids and your double negatives. When I was young, we said what we ment, and we ment it!

You crotchety old curmudgeons! Nowadays, we use spell check when we make jokes about the grammar of others!

[Khanderas]

Am I disabled? Yes.
Have I taken a move or standard action this round? Yes.
Since the above are true, the player is no longer allowed to make both, or full round actions. (Note: It's worth mentioning that readying an action to hit a character that's performing a full round action will fizzle the action, as they can no longer perform those when disabled.)

DM was technically correct in his ruling.

... wich is the best kind of correct.

[Rad]

I agree with your DM. Conditions are effective immediately when inflicted and if you are no longer able to perform some action, the action is disrupted.
I would also allow creatures to disrupt a charge in this way (bringing an opponent to 0 HP is meant to be crippling after all).