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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Smog: A Community World Building Project

    A Cataclysm of Green stile world builder


    The city lay sleeping. A thick purple haze shrouding every thing. In the streets people stood like statues, frozen as the fled some unknown terror. They weren't dead, not exactly, but they weren't alive ether. No birds chirped nor trees grew, they had suffered the same fate.

    It has been nearly 500 years since the Smog came and the entire world is like this. Almost, at the tops of tall hills and mountains life continues as usual. The survivors who made it to the high lands in time have build a society, this is there story.


    ok, background info

    1 the under dark is flooded with the smog
    2 the Smog sinks being heaver than air
    3 the Smog level is no longer rising we are safe from that at least
    Quote Originally Posted by ToySoldierCPlus View Post
    Now you're attempting to model physics when arguing your case for armor made by a guy who explicitly tells the laws of physics to sit down and shut up whenever he starts tinkering stacking with regular armor. Stop that.
    Miny city!
    Industrial miny city!
    transportation!
    round one, fight!

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Smog: A Community World Building Project

    Questions.

    1: How does the smog affect things? I see they stop aging, and cannot respond to things, but are they still thinking? Would psychic characters living there go slowly mad and still be able to use their powers?
    1A: Can you bring someone out of the smog and revive them?

    2: What is the attack vector for the smog? Inhaled? Contact? If it's inhaled characters can wear protective breathing devices or magic. If contact, they'll need suits and fear ruptures.

    3: Do you even want people to adventure below or will this become more of an island-hopping thing?
    3A: What kinds of creatures do live beneath the smog and still move around? Can they come above the smog?
    3B: If there isn't an appreciable threat below besides the smog itself, what's to stop people from "fishing" for goodies from above?
    3Bi: Maybe boats that float on the surface of the smog like in FF9?
    3C: Is there a way to eventually stop the smog and clear it up? What about in just a small area like a town or valley?
    3D: What was the exact source of the smog? Aboveground? Below? Atmospheric? Meteor? Did a Wizard do it?

    4: What does the smog do to weather patterns? Extra heating or cooling? Is the air going bad because not enough plants are around to recycle it?

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Smog: A Community World Building Project

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacoma View Post
    Questions.

    1: How does the smog affect things? I see they stop aging, and cannot respond to things, but are they still thinking? Would psychic characters living there go slowly mad and still be able to use their powers?
    1A: Can you bring someone out of the smog and revive them?

    2: What is the attack vector for the smog? Inhaled? Contact? If it's inhaled characters can wear protective breathing devices or magic. If contact, they'll need suits and fear ruptures.

    3: Do you even want people to adventure below or will this become more of an island-hopping thing?
    3A: What kinds of creatures do live beneath the smog and still move around? Can they come above the smog?
    3B: If there isn't an appreciable threat below besides the smog itself, what's to stop people from "fishing" for goodies from above?
    3Bi: Maybe boats that float on the surface of the smog like in FF9?
    3C: Is there a way to eventually stop the smog and clear it up? What about in just a small area like a town or valley?
    3D: What was the exact source of the smog? Aboveground? Below? Atmospheric? Meteor? Did a Wizard do it?

    4: What does the smog do to weather patterns? Extra heating or cooling? Is the air going bad because not enough plants are around to recycle it?
    this is modeled after Cataclysm of Green(http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73059) and as such the content will be generated by YOU the playground as a whole rather than by me or another individual. That said I do have a few ansers
    1A yes you can
    3 defiantly adventure below
    3Bi I like to think so

    the rest are up to you and any one else who joins in the fun
    Last edited by kopout; 2009-01-22 at 07:23 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by ToySoldierCPlus View Post
    Now you're attempting to model physics when arguing your case for armor made by a guy who explicitly tells the laws of physics to sit down and shut up whenever he starts tinkering stacking with regular armor. Stop that.
    Miny city!
    Industrial miny city!
    transportation!
    round one, fight!

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Smog: A Community World Building Project

    sneaky bump
    Quote Originally Posted by ToySoldierCPlus View Post
    Now you're attempting to model physics when arguing your case for armor made by a guy who explicitly tells the laws of physics to sit down and shut up whenever he starts tinkering stacking with regular armor. Stop that.
    Miny city!
    Industrial miny city!
    transportation!
    round one, fight!

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Orc in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Smog: A Community World Building Project

    Wow this is a great idea...

    Here's some ideas:

    -A main quest line could me a universal rescue of the people trapped in the smog(maybe you could call them Smogglings?)
    -Maybe there is a chemical raction of the smog against humans creating mutants.
    -There's a network of flying ships that take people above the smog from each island to another.
    -In order to go down there, explorers and treasure hunters might have fashioned organic breath-mask type things to explore the realm under the smog. But these would be incredibly expensive and rare.
    -Have constant warring clans of islands to difficult things.
    -Maybe have very drastic weather shifts, some areas only surviving it because of constant control weather spells.
    -Maybe a new line of spells and feats to do with the smog?
    -Giant sky wars over the smog, with ships falling to their fate in the intoxicating gas.

    Hope these help, your idea has a lot of material to work with so its easy to think of ideas.
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  6. - Top - End - #6
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    Vadin's Avatar

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    Default Re: Smog: A Community World Building Project

    Let's look at how various standard fantasy races could react to the smog:

    Humans: Up in the Highlands, they could do quite well. Humans are adaptable things, but there's one group that would do a lot better with their resources severely diminished:
    Halflings!: With less land for growing food these guys would do just fine. They're pre-adapted to the tiny-island-esque terrain.
    Dwarves: The ones at the top of the mountains would probably want to get back underground, but how? Through the tops! The would burrow down INTO the mountains and make communities beneath the Highlands. Number one fear if this is what they do? Cave-Ins. If the Smog gets in, these guys are done for.
    Elves: The Highlands are quite likely at the very top of the treeline, if not above in a few places, so the elves wouldn't have their fancy treehouses everywhere. If they are to survive in anything more than in incredibly small numbers, their concept needs to be reworked.
    Gnomes: Likely to want to jump back into the Smog to find stuff, or use the Smog to experiment, perhaps weaponizing it...


    Tacoma: I like that thought about powerful psychics going mad and manipulating things around them. Let's look at some monsters/things that could do that and/or keep functioning.

    Golems: The fog wouldn't stop them, they'd be just fine. (And I now officially vote for warforged not being in the setting, as that whole 'not breathing' things gives them Smog immunity and raises the question of "Why don't they just walk down and rescue everyone?") Players could encounter golems anywhere where valuable things are stored. Using golems of various sizes as security systems, then, was likely very common in the PreSmog society.
    Illithids: Huge brains. Mindslaves. Everyone with an X mile radius gets dominated and little monster enclaves controlled like puppets spring up across the world near places where illithids were before the fall- I'm gonna go with underground/at the base of a few mountains.
    Aboleths: Does the Smog go beneath the water? If not, then aboleths and kuo-toa and sahuagin would all be pretty much fine. This does also open up the possibility of caves that can only be reached through water and aren't exposed to the air.
    Dragons: Surprisingly, probably not much of a problem. Most are most likely frozen, dominated by an Illithid or powerful psychic, or burrowed deep beneath the ground, waiting for the Smog to clear. They could have a few hidden enclaves deep beneath the ground with entrance tunnels far away in the Highlands. They could represent a sort of refugee filled Underdark.

    Thoughts and comments?



    Ah, Cataclysm of Green...that was a fun month, it really was.
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  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Smog: A Community World Building Project

    @mr.fizzypop
    Sky ships and sky wars are a must . Rule of cool demands this
    Quote Originally Posted by ToySoldierCPlus View Post
    Now you're attempting to model physics when arguing your case for armor made by a guy who explicitly tells the laws of physics to sit down and shut up whenever he starts tinkering stacking with regular armor. Stop that.
    Miny city!
    Industrial miny city!
    transportation!
    round one, fight!

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Smog: A Community World Building Project

    Quote Originally Posted by Vadin View Post
    Let's look at how various standard fantasy races could react to the smog:

    Humans: Up in the Highlands, they could do quite well. Humans are adaptable things, but there's one group that would do a lot better with their resources severely diminished:
    Halflings!: With less land for growing food these guys would do just fine. They're pre-adapted to the tiny-island-esque terrain.
    Dwarves: The ones at the top of the mountains would probably want to get back underground, but how? Through the tops! The would burrow down INTO the mountains and make communities beneath the Highlands. Number one fear if this is what they do? Cave-Ins. If the Smog gets in, these guys are done for.
    Elves: The Highlands are quite likely at the very top of the treeline, if not above in a few places, so the elves wouldn't have their fancy treehouses everywhere. If they are to survive in anything more than in incredibly small numbers, their concept needs to be reworked.
    Gnomes: Likely to want to jump back into the Smog to find stuff, or use the Smog to experiment, perhaps weaponizing it...


    Tacoma: I like that thought about powerful psychics going mad and manipulating things around them. Let's look at some monsters/things that could do that and/or keep functioning.

    Golems: The fog wouldn't stop them, they'd be just fine. (And I now officially vote for warforged not being in the setting, as that whole 'not breathing' things gives them Smog immunity and raises the question of "Why don't they just walk down and rescue everyone?") Players could encounter golems anywhere where valuable things are stored. Using golems of various sizes as security systems, then, was likely very common in the PreSmog society.
    Illithids: Huge brains. Mindslaves. Everyone with an X mile radius gets dominated and little monster enclaves controlled like puppets spring up across the world near places where illithids were before the fall- I'm gonna go with underground/at the base of a few mountains.
    Aboleths: Does the Smog go beneath the water? If not, then aboleths and kuo-toa and sahuagin would all be pretty much fine. This does also open up the possibility of caves that can only be reached through water and aren't exposed to the air.
    Dragons: Surprisingly, probably not much of a problem. Most are most likely frozen, dominated by an Illithid or powerful psychic, or burrowed deep beneath the ground, waiting for the Smog to clear. They could have a few hidden enclaves deep beneath the ground with entrance tunnels far away in the Highlands. They could represent a sort of refugee filled Underdark.

    Thoughts and comments?



    Ah, Cataclysm of Green...that was a fun month, it really was.
    I'm, gong to say that Smog doesn't go under water, but it dose dissolve in it like air does. I can see air filed caves with the entrance beneath the water existing. Dwarves that had enough warning could seal off a town or a mine or even a whole portion of the Underdark as long as the seal is air tight and all entrances are sealed. Now then, the Undead I'm pretty sure they can unlive just fine in the Smog so the question is , what are they up to? Also should we include dead born in this ? A reproducing sentient race of Undead would do well in the Smog.
    Quote Originally Posted by ToySoldierCPlus View Post
    Now you're attempting to model physics when arguing your case for armor made by a guy who explicitly tells the laws of physics to sit down and shut up whenever he starts tinkering stacking with regular armor. Stop that.
    Miny city!
    Industrial miny city!
    transportation!
    round one, fight!

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Vadin's Avatar

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    Default Re: Smog: A Community World Building Project

    Quote Originally Posted by kopout View Post
    Now then, the Undead I'm pretty sure they can unlive just fine in the Smog so the question is , what are they up to?
    Liches could fill roles similar to Illithids (controlling now-frozen monsters and using them as puppets).

    Vampires would walk the streets freely, as no one could stop them and there wouldn't be any sun. The world would be their buffet.

    Very few ghosts/ghouls. The people aren't dieing, so there wouldn't be that many undead in places away from Lichdoms. That's my opinion, at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by kopout View Post
    Also should we include dead born in this ? A reproducing sentient race of Undead would do well in the Smog.
    I vote no, for the reason that if they were there, there wouldn't be any reason for them not to expand like crazy and take over everything and overwhelm the Highlands without any chance of resistance.
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  10. - Top - End - #10
    Orc in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Smog: A Community World Building Project

    I like Vadin's idea of vampires, maybe have a race of half-vampires or something to be the main organized threat beneath the smog?
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  11. - Top - End - #11
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Smog: A Community World Building Project

    I was thinking, wouldn't vampires starve to death because there pray is frozen? Could they drink the blood of people frozen by the smog?
    Quote Originally Posted by ToySoldierCPlus View Post
    Now you're attempting to model physics when arguing your case for armor made by a guy who explicitly tells the laws of physics to sit down and shut up whenever he starts tinkering stacking with regular armor. Stop that.
    Miny city!
    Industrial miny city!
    transportation!
    round one, fight!

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Vadin's Avatar

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    Default Re: Smog: A Community World Building Project

    Quote Originally Posted by kopout View Post
    I was thinking, wouldn't vampires starve to death because there pray is frozen? Could they drink the blood of people frozen by the smog?
    As long as we're assuming that things that don't need to breathe aren't affected by it, then yes, I'd suppose they could. That, or it would act like a poison to them, and they'd have to hunt the Highlands in very small numbers (as they'd be almost starving to death) and prey on what few survivors they can take without eliminating their cattle the small communities in the Highlands.
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  13. - Top - End - #13
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    Default Re: Smog: A Community World Building Project

    Quote Originally Posted by kopout View Post
    I was thinking, wouldn't vampires starve to death because there pray is frozen? Could they drink the blood of people frozen by the smog?
    Actually I think we need a homebrewed race just for this campaign, that's like a vampire.
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    Vadin's Avatar

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    Default Re: Smog: A Community World Building Project

    I'm not against the idea, but why make something different when we already have vampires?
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  15. - Top - End - #15
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Smog: A Community World Building Project

    I'm going to support the hypothesis of frozen blood being poison.Vampires now travel nomadicly so as to not over hunt the highlands. also the "mind flayers control armies" thing only works if they control things that don't breath , other wise they just stay put .
    Quote Originally Posted by ToySoldierCPlus View Post
    Now you're attempting to model physics when arguing your case for armor made by a guy who explicitly tells the laws of physics to sit down and shut up whenever he starts tinkering stacking with regular armor. Stop that.
    Miny city!
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    transportation!
    round one, fight!

  16. - Top - End - #16
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    Vadin's Avatar

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    Default Re: Smog: A Community World Building Project

    Quote Originally Posted by kopout View Post
    I'm going to support the hypothesis of frozen blood being poison.Vampires now travel nomadicly so as to not over hunt the highlands. also the "mind flayers control armies" thing only works if they control things that don't breath , other wise they just stay put .
    Why? Couldn't the things still be manipulated? Just because YOU can't make your arms move doesn't mean I can't make your arms move. And the Illithids wouldn't have to move at all themselves; they'd use their psionic powers to reach out and control things. Powerful psions could do the same thing, I suppose.
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  17. - Top - End - #17
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    PirateCaptain

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    Default Re: Smog: A Community World Building Project

    We need to think of several ways to protect oneself from the Smog, here are some ideas

    Smogwalker Suit: Think an old-fashioned diving suit. Essentially airtight full plate, usually with a magical air supply built in that can last for several hours, though some of the fancier models use a Bottle of Air.The same principle could be applied to airtight helmets or masks, though because the runes used to protect the wearer from the smog are easier to do the bigger they are, full suits tend to be cheaper if your going to be wearing armor anyway.
    Spell: Somebody probably developed a spell that specifically blocks the effects of the mist. However, you cannot cast it on somebody within, lets say, an hour of it having been on that person, which means that anybody going into the mists has a time limit before they get back up. It's probably also available in potion form.
    A second Potion: Kind of an "emergency" potion, this provides protection from the smog for up to an hour, however, once that protection wears off, it has poisonous aftereffects. Most "Lowwalkers" (people who venture out of the highlands) carry a bottle on them, but are loath to use it. Maybe it's called somthing like "Last Resort"
    Last edited by BRC; 2009-02-28 at 08:57 PM.
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  18. - Top - End - #18
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    Chimera

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    Default Re: Smog: A Community World Building Project

    I agree with mr.fizzypop... we definitely need a homebrewed race for this...

    perhaps a race of tainted humans who have been mutated by the smog, and who perhaps have an adverse reaction to being out of the fog as opposed to the other way around... but become stronger or faster while in the smog...

    (i think someone mentioned smoglings?)

    or perhaps the introduction of mutations in general as per the d20modern system, just re-flavored towards the setting's theme

    also... there should be a new branch of magical study focusing around manipulation of the fog... (if we do have a mutation system, this could include body and/or corpse manipulation to people of a more evil bent)

    other ideas:

    - the effects of some of the deep fog can grant a temporary high, and some of the more enterprising businessmen have begun marketing bottled deep fog as a drug.

    - alchemy should not require the creator to have levels in a magical class, and simple alchemical items should be relatively common...and cheap... more alchemical fire, smoke-sticks, alchemical light sources, alchemical air-filtering substances etc...


    I think that the general theme that has seemed to pop up is starting to verge on faint bioshock... I have always been annoyed at the lack of magical items who function only through the use of magic... but are not a mere reproduction of a spell. for instance, when people mention the use of magic in society, they often suggest having everburning torches in cities... this is a very simple idea... more interesting are physical objects that are merely powered by magic... for instance, a grappling hook with a stone hand on the end, or a sword with gears built into the blade to function like a chainsaw... they bring a more tactile and gritty sensation to the fantasy world than do these arbitrary energy effects all over the place. We should have more of these kinds of things
    Last edited by Jangoose; 2009-02-28 at 11:08 PM.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Re: Smog: A Community World Building Project

    Quote Originally Posted by Vadin View Post
    Why? Couldn't the things still be manipulated? Just because YOU can't make your arms move doesn't mean I can't make your arms move. And the Illithids wouldn't have to move at all themselves; they'd use their psionic powers to reach out and control things. Powerful psions could do the same thing, I suppose.
    I see your point. I had thought that you meant like mind control instead of "manly " moving there limbs.
    Quote Originally Posted by ToySoldierCPlus View Post
    Now you're attempting to model physics when arguing your case for armor made by a guy who explicitly tells the laws of physics to sit down and shut up whenever he starts tinkering stacking with regular armor. Stop that.
    Miny city!
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    transportation!
    round one, fight!

  20. - Top - End - #20
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    Default Re: Smog: A Community World Building Project

    Quote Originally Posted by Daverick View Post
    perhaps a race of tainted humans who have been mutated by the smog, and who perhaps have an adverse reaction to being out of the fog as opposed to the other way around... but become stronger or faster while in the smog...
    Would this be a playable or NPC race? Because I think that it would be very unfair player race, not only being able to go into a place almost nobody else can, but also getting bonuses. Maybe they're an NPC race, they could be the main "enemy" in the campaign, much like orcs in LotR?

    Maybe under the smog there could be different versions of them. Some with psionic abilities or some with unnatural strength and bulk.
    Last edited by mr.fizzypop; 2009-02-28 at 11:35 PM.
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    Default Re: Smog: A Community World Building Project

    That's a pretty good idea. Maybe 1 in 20 creatures or so got turned into smoglings and could have any number of different abilities.
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    Default Re: Smog: A Community World Building Project

    My only question is this: Do you need a map? I love asking that question.

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    Default Re: Smog: A Community World Building Project

    Yah we'd probably need one eventually, but its too early at this point.

    Also I was thinking: What about the ocean? So maybe along with all the land, all the ocean is covered in smog, in which you can't tell between land and water from above the smog. Maybe called "the sea of silence" or something?

    Perhaps the smog reacts to the water, polluting it, and chemically affecting those beneath? I know someone brought up Aboleths and other sea creatures, how would those be affected? Underwater variant of Smogglings? Two headed dolphins? Any thoughts?
    Last edited by mr.fizzypop; 2009-03-01 at 09:40 AM.
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    Default Re: Smog: A Community World Building Project

    I was actually thinking of a player race... because while they would get bonuses in the smog, they would get penalties out of it, which is where many campaigns would consistently end up, assuming they are one of only a few smoglings in any party... and if they are not, then the whole group will receive the same bonuses so it won't matter...

    either way, being stronger in the mist is not a must, it was just an idea...

    as a matter of fact... i have another idea... why not make it a template? and afterwards, if we still think its unbalanced, we can add LA...

    (also... there should be natural and afflicted smogtouched... people should be rolled on to see if they possess the gene that would allow them to survive the fog (without their knowledge), and then, if they take a certain amount of ability damage from the fog, they become smogtouched (after an appropriate amount of time being wracked by horrible pains etc...).

    i still like the mutation system from d20modern, though... perhaps it can still be incorporated...

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    Default Re: Smog: A Community World Building Project

    I like the idea of mutation. I don't know how it works in D20 modern but I assume its kinda like insanity. And maybe various affects of mutation, paralysis, unconsciousness, loss of hair or skin, all ending in death if its not treated.
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    Chimera

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    Default Re: Smog: A Community World Building Project

    about the water thing, i totally agree, the sea beneath the smog should be affected, but i think to a lesser degree... perhaps water is a way of slowing down the effects of being beneath the smog...??

  27. - Top - End - #27
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    Default Re: Smog: A Community World Building Project

    more info on the d20modern mutation system can be found here

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    Default Re: Smog: A Community World Building Project

    Quote Originally Posted by Daverick View Post
    more info on the d20modern mutation system can be found here
    That could work but your link doesn't really explain how you get mutations. Also if we use this I think we'd only use the drawbacks, since I don't think smog mutation can be good.
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  29. - Top - End - #29
    Orc in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Smog: A Community World Building Project

    this was more about how you would balance having mutations... the actual book is just as vague about how one can get mutations

    i think that the specific mutations would need to be changed, and that many of the more powerful beneficial mutations (such as the wings) should be eliminated, but i think that overall, beneficial mutations are a good thing to include. Also, all mutations will need to be hidden, and will carry a social penalty no matter how good they are... also... we are thinking of these mutations from an outside perspective. while a "beneficial mutation" might provide an in game statistical bonus, how many people would think that having tentacles grow out of their back spontaneously would be a good thing. yes they could learn to use them to their advantage, but the mutation itself is not inherently beneficial.
    Last edited by Jangoose; 2009-03-01 at 11:41 AM.

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    Default Re: Smog: A Community World Building Project

    Some possible abilities for a race or template that can live beneath the smog would be ability to breath in it unharmed, light sensitivity, becoming fatigued if they breathe air without it for more that a minute or two, charisma penalty, adverse reaction to bright sunlight (as the smog blocks most of it below), as the smog seems to be cold maybe some cold resistance, better hearing (perhaps blindsense at least when in the smog, likely not out of it though due to different densities of the medium throwing it off), perhaps an ability to improve visibility in the smog. Can't think of anything else ability wise at the moment. Preferred class would likely be rouge, ranger, or maybe a custom class based on using salvaged artifacts. I don't think they would be particularly strong compared to other races and might actually seem somewhat sickly (not that it would be bad when compared to a normal person left unprotected beneath the smog). As such it seems like they would be more likely to use roundabout means to win in combat. Also they would seem less likely to be wizards (or other disciplined magic classes) do to small numbers and most people generally disliking and/or mistrusting them (and the issue of having trouble being outside the smog while the people outside would have trouble in it making for a difficult student/teacher relationship). Most likely they would prefer to hide their nature above the smog due to discrimination. Those that are known would likely be treated somewhat poorly except in the situation of being employed by those wanting to go on scavenging trips seeing them as useful if distasteful workers (and often less expensive than gear that could last for extended trips).

    Also, given that the smog limits vision, I'd expect that many thing that have adapted to life in it would either have the special ability of seeing through it clearly, or some other means of sensing things (such as improved hearing, improved smell that is used to the smog so not hindered by it, tremor sense, etc.).

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