[3.5] How can I get more critical hits?

[Myou]

I'm trying to maximise my chances of scoring a critical hit with a TWF rogue//assassin. I'm planning on taking Improved Critical: Kukri, what else can I do?

And would it be better just to get Keen Kukris?


If anyone knows of ways to make the most of the critical hits I do get then that would be appreciated too.

Edit: I'm not interested in PrCs or any kind of multiclassing, but thanks to those who suggested it.

[NEO|Phyte]

If anyone knows of ways to make the most of the critical hits I do get then that would be appreciated too.

Tome of Battle: the level 1 stance Blood in the Water. Every time you confirm a critical (including against crit-immune foes), you get a stacking +1 to attack and damage, resetting back to +0 if you go one minute without critting.

ToB + Complete Warrior: CWar has the feat Lightning Mace, which lets you take an extra attack at the same bonus whenever you get a critical threat while TWFing with light maces. The +1-equiv Aptitude weapon enchantment in ToB allows you to use the enchanted weapon with any feat that requires a specific weapon, even if the weapon is otherwise ineligible.

[Satyr]

Generally, enchantments are superior to spent feats, as feats are rarer and harder to get. So, when your campaign makes it easy to get new magical items, then it would make sense just to get the enchanted weapons instead.

Aprt from this, I know exactly one prestige class, the Psychic Weapon Master, that increases the threat span of critical hits and stack with the improved critical feat.

[lilhowie624]

another class to look into is the weapon master. they get a ki ability that adds 2 to your threat. another weapon is the rapier or scimatar 1d6 18-20X2
rapier is fenessable

ToB + Complete Warrior: CWar has the feat Lightning Mace, which lets you take an extra attack at the same bonus whenever you get a critical threat while TWFing with light maces

ive seen this do some massive dmg. one player i had rolled like 6 attacks TWF

[Epinephrine]

Loaded dice. Rolling more high numbers will help.

Making the most of crits? The weapon enhancements that trigger on crits may be good - there are many enhancements - fiery, enervating, icy, paraytic, doom, shocking, prismatic, curse spewing, vorpal.

[RTGoodman]

Like Satyr said, enchantments are probably cheaper than feats, and there's also the keen edge spell (which keen is based on) that's a 3rd-level Sor/Wiz spell that works for 10 min. per level. If you can score a keen kukri or two yet, ask your party arcanist to cast it for you.

One thing to remember is that only natural 20s are automatic hits. Even if your threat range is 15-20, you don't automatically hit everytime you roll a 15. If it IS a hit, you threaten a critical, but otherwise it's just a miss. Because of that, don't neglect to work on ways to up your attack bonus through spells, magic weapons, attacking from hiding/flanking (which you should be doing anyway for Sneak Attack), and stuff like that.

Also, the Psionic Weapon Master that Satyr mentioned might be pretty good. The abilities that deal with critical hits aren't usable all day, but they are nifty. Also, it grants Improved Critical, but if you already have it it grants you a FURTHER +2 to your crit range (13-20). If you decide to go with that, I suggest the Psychic Rogue variant, though with the Psionic Weapon Master prerequisites you lose all but maybe one level of Assassin.

[Myou]

Tome of Battle: the level 1 stance Blood in the Water. Every time you confirm a critical (including against crit-immune foes), you get a stacking +1 to attack and damage, resetting back to +0 if you go one minute without critting.

ToB + Complete Warrior: CWar has the feat Lightning Mace, which lets you take an extra attack at the same bonus whenever you get a critical threat while TWFing with light maces. The +1-equiv Aptitude weapon enchantment in ToB allows you to use the enchanted weapon with any feat that requires a specific weapon, even if the weapon is otherwise ineligible.

But I'm not a Swordsage or Warblade. o.O

Would that make Improved Critical and Keen stack?

Generally, enchantments are superior to spent feats, as feats are rarer and harder to get. So, when your campaign makes it easy to get new magical items, then it would make sense just to get the enchanted weapons instead.

Aprt from this, I know exactly one prestige class, the Psychic Weapon Master, that increases the threat span of critical hits and stack with the improved critical feat.

Yeah, I should have really said I was thinking abou taking it and probably won't if it's not going to stack.

That'll be handy to know for the future but sadly wont work this time as I'm not multiclassing.

[Keld Denar]

ToB + Complete Warrior: CWar has the feat Lightning Mace, which lets you take an extra attack at the same bonus whenever you get a critical threat while TWFing with light maces. The +1-equiv Aptitude weapon enchantment in ToB allows you to use the enchanted weapon with any feat that requires a specific weapon, even if the weapon is otherwise ineligible.

I got bored once and actually wrote MatLab code to simulate a build that JaronK posted over on the CharOp boards. His build involved Disciple of Dispater, a PrC from Book of Vile Cheeze which explicitly does stack with Imp Crit. I didn't run the code since I seem to have misplaced my MatLab install disk and am about 3000 miles from my university's computer lab. If anyone has MatLab and is interested in running the code, lemme know. I'm pretty sure it won't go to infinity and crash, but I'm not making any garuntees with MatLab's RNG...lol! Hope you have a lot of RAM though, since its written in a kind of a bulky loop-style logic, but that was the only way I could think of to model it.

Damn it, I'm not a programmer, I just play one on TV!

[Myou]

Loaded dice. Rolling more high numbers will help.

Making the most of crits? The weapon enhancements that trigger on crits may be good - there are many enhancements - fiery, enervating, icy, paraytic, doom, shocking, prismatic, curse spewing, vorpal.

That's a good point, yes. Although I thought Vorpal was only on natural 20s, not criticals.

Like Satyr said, enchantments are probably cheaper than feats, and there's also the keen edge spell (which keen is based on) that's a 3rd-level Sor/Wiz spell that works for 10 min. per level. If you can score a keen kukri or two yet, ask your party arcanist to cast it for you.

One thing to remember is that only natural 20s are automatic hits. Even if your threat range is 15-20, you don't automatically hit everytime you roll a 15. If it IS a hit, you threaten a critical, but otherwise it's just a miss. Because of that, don't neglect to work on ways to up your attack bonus through spells, magic weapons, attacking from hiding/flanking (which you should be doing anyway for Sneak Attack), and stuff like that.

Also, the Psionic Weapon Master that Satyr mentioned might be pretty good. The abilities that deal with critical hits aren't usable all day, but they are nifty. Also, it grants Improved Critical, but if you already have it it grants you a FURTHER +2 to your crit range (13-20). If you decide to go with that, I suggest the Psychic Rogue variant, though with the Psionic Weapon Master prerequisites you lose all but maybe one level of Assassin.

That spell would be great, but I'm in a solo campagn. ><
(Does the spell stack with the enhancement?)

My strategy is hiding, flanking, SA and weapon finesse, yeah. This is more to take advantage of Telling Blow (it lets you sneak attack on crits) for when I can't flank/hide.

Next time, next time. xD
I just like playing one class and making the most of it.

[lilhowie624]

unfortanatly keen and imp crit doesnt stack. youll have to find the good cheese on crits by serching and digging. as for getting the stance without being a sword sage theres a feat that allows you to get martial manuvers and stances in ToB.

[TheCountAlucard]

There's a feat out there that lets you treat rolling a 1 as if you had rolled a nat 20. I don't remember the name at the moment - I'm still laughing over the Candlejack reference in the other th-

[Telonius]

The Power Critical feat from CWar gives you a +4 on crit confirmation rolls when you connect with your chosen Weapon Focus weapon.

Confound the Big Folk from Races of the Wild gives +4 on crit confirmation vs foes 2 size categories larger. (You have to be Small or smaller to get it, and must occupy the opponent's space to use it).

[Myou]

unfortanatly keen and imp crit doesnt stack. youll have to find the good cheese on crits by serching and digging. as for getting the stance without being a sword sage theres a feat that allows you to get martial manuvers and stances in ToB.

Hmmm, that's not really worth it just for the ability it's give me, it looks like a melee class's ability, not something too good for a hit-and-fade rogue.

Thanks for the info though.

There's a feat out there that lets you treat rolling a 1 as if you had rolled a nat 20. I don't remember the name at the moment - I'm still laughing over the Candlejack reference in the other th-

I saw that in CS, but it said it was limited to one use a day.

[NEO|Phyte]

But I'm not a Swordsage or Warblade. o.O

Would that make Improved Critical and Keen stack?

Spending two feats can get you the stance. Martial Study to pick up a maneuver, then Martial Stance to pick up a stance.

And no, Aptitude wouldn't make Imp. Critical and Keen stack, it would just mean that if you had Imp. Critical (underwater basket weaver), it would apply to your kukris.

[Epinephrine]

That's a good point, yes. Although I thought Vorpal was only on natural 20s, not criticals.

Point - not as handy then. I was just trying to be thorough.

Let me do a quick analysis though, before you follow up on it.

Will you be using Greater Magic Weapon to boost the bonus on your blades? If you don't have a caster providing that, it may not be worth looking at burst weapons.

An elemental weapon (e.g., corrosive) adds 1d6 damage (3.5 average) without adding to hit or base damage, at a +1 bonus. Depeding on your base damage and chance of hitting, this could be a good or a bad trade-off. After all, with high base damage and only hitting on a 20, you double the number of hits you get by adding a +1 to hit, and your additional hits will easily make up more than the +3.5 damage you very rarely get to benefit from. On the other end of the spectrum, if you are guaranteed a hit the +1 to hit is worth nearly nothing, so you're comparing the +1.30 damage from the enhancement (+1, but a 30% chance of confirming a crit) against the 3.5 damage from the weapon property.

A burst on top of that only adds damage when you crit. It adds 1d10 extra damage (5.5 average) on a crit, but even assuming that you hit automatically, you'll only crit 30% of the time. That's a mere 1.65 damage per swing on average, when you can count on a crit! Taking another +1 enhancement bonus, on the other hand, will add at least 1.3 more damage. If the target is at all hard to hit, the extra to hit bonus delivering your damage more often wins out.

So I'd ignore my earlier comment - it's just not worth it damage-wise to pursue those enhancements.

The debuffing enhancements (Paralytic Burst, Enervating, Doom Burst) may be worth using, as the effect may be more valuable than damage.

[Myou]

The Power Critical feat from CWar gives you a +4 on crit confirmation rolls when you connect with your chosen Weapon Focus weapon.

Confound the Big Folk from Races of the Wild gives +4 on crit confirmation vs foes 2 size categories larger. (You have to be Small or smaller to get it, and must occupy the opponent's space to use it).

Yeah, Power Critical will help.

But sadly I'm medium so so confounding for me.

Spending two feats can get you the stance. Martial Study to pick up a maneuver, then Martial Stance to pick up a stance.

And no, Aptitude wouldn't make Imp. Critical and Keen stack, it would just mean that if you had Imp. Critical (underwater basket weaver), it would apply to your kukris.

Oh well. I guess a Keen enhancement is the way to go.

Point - not as handy then. I was just trying to be thorough.

Let me do a quick analysis though, before you follow up on it.

Will you be using Greater Magic Weapon to boost the bonus on your blades? If you don't have a caster providing that, it may not be worth looking at burst weapons.

An elemental weapon (e.g., corrosive) adds 1d6 damage (3.5 average) without adding to hit or base damage, at a +1 bonus. Depeding on your base damage and chance of hitting, this could be a good or a bad trade-off. After all, with high base damage and only hitting on a 20, you double the number of hits you get by adding a +1 to hit, and your additional hits will easily make up more than the +3.5 damage you very rarely get to benefit from. On the other end of the spectrum, if you are guaranteed a hit the +1 to hit is worth nearly nothing, so you're comparing the +1.30 damage from the enhancement (+1, but a 30% chance of confirming a crit) against the 3.5 damage from the weapon property.

A burst on top of that only adds damage when you crit. It adds 1d10 extra damage (5.5 average) on a crit, but even assuming that you hit automatically, you'll only crit 30% of the time. That's a mere 1.65 damage per swing on average, when you can count on a crit! Taking another +1 enhancement bonus, on the other hand, will add at least 1.3 more damage. If the target is at all hard to hit, the extra to hit bonus delivering your damage more often wins out.

So I'd ignore my earlier comment - it's just not worth it damage-wise to pursue those enhancements.

The debuffing enhancements (Paralytic Burst, Enervating, Doom Burst) may be worth using, as the effect may be more valuable than damage.

I appreciate it. ^^

Nope, I'll be casterless sadly.

That's been quite illuminating thanks. I too was drawn by the shiny elements.

[Person_Man]

FYI, trying to optimize critical hits is generally a poor strategy. In general, tons of enemies are immune to crits, and the overall bonus to expected damage really isn't impressive even when enemies are susceptible to it. But in particular, bonus dice of damage (such as the bonus damage from Sneak Attack) are NOT multiplied by a critical hit. So it's a particularly poor strategy for a Rogue/Anything.

Instead you should consider trying to get as many attacks as possible, and optimizing your Sneak Attack and Death Attack (usually by debuffing your enemy - check out any Hexblade thread for feats and ideas).

Anywho, assuming you're committed to optimizing crits, here's my advice:

Buy a Scabbard of Keen Edges or Wand of Keen Edges. In the long run it's cheaper then a feat or weapon enhancement (since each additional +1 bonus of enhancement dramatically increases the cost of the weapon).

Increase your non-dice bonuses to damage, which are multiplied when you crit. For example, your Str bonus, Craven feat, Smite, Power Attack, etc.

Lightning Mace + Aptitude Weapon, as NEO|Phyte suggests (warning, DMs hate this combo).

You have UMD as a Skill, use it. In particular, spells like Haste, Divine Power, Greater Invisibility, Greater Magic Weapon, Wraithstrike or Spectral Weapon (Spell Comp), etc. This will increase the number of attacks you can make, and drastically improve your chances of hitting.

Enhance your weapons with the Bodyfeeder enhancement. As long as you crit once per round, you should have a constant stream of temporary hit points. (Although it temporary hit points overlap, they are also lost first when you take damage. So unless you take massive damage or suffer from status effects, you should be able to stick it out indefinitely in almost any combat).

[Fax Celestis]

Enhance your weapons with the Bodyfeeder enhancement. As long as you crit once per round, you should have a constant stream of temporary hit points. (Although it temporary hit points overlap, they are also lost first when you take damage. So unless you take massive damage or suffer from status effects, you should be able to stick it out indefinitely in almost any combat).

Couple with the Stone Power feat for hilarious temporary HP values.

[Myou]

FYI, trying to optimize critical hits is generally a poor strategy. In general, tons of enemies are immune to crits, and the overall bonus to expected damage really isn't impressive even when enemies are susceptible to it. But in particular, bonus dice of damage (such as the bonus damage from Sneak Attack) are NOT multiplied by a critical hit. So it's a particularly poor strategy for a Rogue/Anything.

Instead you should consider trying to get as many attacks as possible, and optimizing your Sneak Attack and Death Attack (usually by debuffing your enemy - check out any Hexblade thread for feats and ideas).

Anywho, assuming you're committed to optimizing crits, here's my advice:

Buy a Scabbard of Keen Edges or Wand of Keen Edges. In the long run it's cheaper then a feat or weapon enhancement (since each additional +1 bonus of enhancement dramatically increases the cost of the weapon).

Increase your non-dice bonuses to damage, which are multiplied when you crit. For example, your Str bonus, Craven feat, Smite, Power Attack, etc.

Lightning Mace + Aptitude Weapon, as NEO|Phyte suggests (warning, DMs hate this combo).

You have UMD as a Skill, use it. In particular, spells like Haste, Divine Power, Greater Invisibility, Greater Magic Weapon, Wraithstrike or Spectral Weapon (Spell Comp), etc. This will increase the number of attacks you can make, and drastically improve your chances of hitting.

Enhance your weapons with the Bodyfeeder enhancement. As long as you crit once per round, you should have a constant stream of temporary hit points. (Although it temporary hit points overlap, they are also lost first when you take damage. So unless you take massive damage or suffer from status effects, you should be able to stick it out indefinitely in almost any combat).

My main strategy is optimisation of my SAs and DAs, but as part of that I'm taking Telling Blow, which lets me SA on critical hits. So I want to get as many crits as I can, and make the most of them.

Lightning Mace requires you to use maces though (at least I assume it does), sadly my character uses blades.

Yeah, I'll see what I can get, I'm pumping UMD for a reason after all.

Couple with the Stone Power feat for hilarious temporary HP values.

Sounds like a plan. :3

[NEO|Phyte]

Lightning Mace requires you to use maces though (at least I assume it does), sadly my character uses blades.

Normally, yes, it requires maces, but if you have Aptitude weapons, you can get the feat's benefit with them.

[MCerberus]

I'd recommend simply talking to your DM. Improved Critical and Keen stacking is one of the more common house rules. If you could convince him/her to use it that's a fairly big threat range.

[Myou]

Normally, yes, it requires maces, but if you have Aptitude weapons, you can get the feat's benefit with them.

Wow, I totally misread your first post. ^^;

Hmmm, that could be very useful. :3

I'd recommend simply talking to your DM. Improved Critical and Keen stacking is one of the more common house rules. If you could convince him/her to use it that's a fairly big threat range.

Really? Well, maybe I'll ask him then!

[Myou]

Update;

My DM has agreed to let Keen and IC stack.

As I understand it, if I take Improved Critical: Kukri ad get a pair of Keen kukris they'd have a threat range of 18-20/x2 + 3 + 3 for a total rage of 12-20/x2, yes?

And I get a sneak attack with every critical thanks to Telling blow. (Sadly that's not multipled of course.)

Now is there a way to increase the multiplier? xD

If I can get the Aptitude enhancement then take the Lightning Mace feat that would let me get an extra attack every time I go a critical threat too.

Power Critical will also help convert the threats into crits.

(I won't go for the bodyfeeder trick though, that would be a bit too cheesy, my character's meant to sneak about, not be unkillable in melee. xD )

So, anything I'm missing?

[Eldariel]

The listed weapon enhancements. Bursts, especially Prismatic Burst are great for critical monkeys. Getting Blood in the Water-stance would also rock (as said, two feats gets it to you if you don't want to multiclass in Swordsage/Warblade for 1 level). There're also some enhancements that heal you when you crit and such. Overall, focus on your Kukris; there's more to critting than Keen.

[Myou]

The listed weapon enhancements. Bursts, especially Prismatic Burst are great for critical monkeys. Getting Blood in the Water-stance would also rock (as said, two feats gets it to you if you don't want to multiclass in Swordsage/Warblade for 1 level). There're also some enhancements that heal you when you crit and such. Overall, focus on your Kukris; there's more to critting than Keen.

Prismatic? o.o

Now where can I get me some of that? :o


And do you mean take Weapon Focus?

[Fax Celestis]

Someone needs to reverse the concordant property that the Concordant Killer (MM-IV) has on his weapon.

[Myou]

Someone needs to reverse the concordant property that the Concordant Killer (MM-IV) has on his weapon.

Wow, a weapon that kills you with the sheer impossibility of it's existence! xD

An unholy holy weapon, it must hurt just trying to comprehend it.

[Fax Celestis]

Wow, a weapon that kills you with the sheer impossibility of it's existence! xD

An unholy holy weapon, it must hurt just trying to comprehend it.

It's worse than that. It's a holy unholy axiomatic anarchic sword +4. It's like they put alignment in a blender and hit puree.

[Curmudgeon]

You do realize that you won't get many critical hits with the -4 nonproficiency penalty for using kukris, right? Neither Rogue nor Assassin have them on their weapon proficiency list.

[Draz74]

I'm going to go against the grain and recommend getting Improved Critical, non-Keen kukris. Then get a Bless Weapon effect on them. If you don't want to be UMDing Paladin-only-crafted wands, there's a great item in the MIC, similar to Scabbard of Keen Edges, that can get you this auto-confirm-criticals ability: Sacred Scabbard.

By the way, are Rogues even proficient with kukris without spending a feat?