Concerning Tarrasques

[Gaire]

So I was thinking the other day about the Tarrasque, when it struck me- where the heck does a creature like the Tarrasque come from? I mean, it can't reproduce sexually and there's no proof of asexual reproduction. Is the Tarrasque a super-powerful mutant from one of the monstrous species? Is it some sort of hold-over from when the gods created the world?

Obviously, it's just there to serve as an end boss for DnD, but it still makes me wonder.

[Shpadoinkle]

One theory I've heard is that it was created by mind flayers to be used as a biological weapon (I THINK this is canon, but I'm not 100% sure). Another is that it was created by the gods to punish the world for something or other

[Eldariel]

Well, MM states it's percieved as a divine punishment of sorts, so a creation of divinities...like everything else in D&D. It seems much like the Abominations presented in Epic Level Handbook: leftovers from the Beginning that failed to gain a real form but refused to die away.

[Flickerdart]

Except there's a whole planet of them somewhere in Spelljammer, so the one on the home planet is just an alien that happened to land there.

[kamuishirou]

I think of it like The Snarl :). An ancient being of destruction that was created before the world began and has just been sleeping away until something or someone walks it up.

[hamishspence]

Most abominations in 3.5 were the unwanted offspring of deities. Exceptions- the anaxims which were more Failed Creations than actual offspring, and the Marruspawn abomination- created by the mortal Marru, incorporating a bit of divine blood in one of their bred creatures.

in 4th ed, they became creations of the primordials and the deities- the war weapons of both sides, and the Tarrasque was included in their number- a Primordial creation.

[Llama231]

Let me be the first to say SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
la li lu le lo
O.K., I consider it a natural force type thin, or an accindent.
It seems to have the same purpose as Godzilla.

[The Demented One]

Except there's a whole planet of them somewhere in Spelljammer, so the one on the home planet is just an alien that happened to land there.

Mein Gott...in that case, it's inevitable.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you the Tarrasque vs. Black Hole Squid no holds barred grudge match. Place your bets.

[Eldariel]

Well, if Black Hole Squid somehow ends up engaging the Tarrasque, the Tarrasque is better in straight-out fighting and wins the grapple match on its immense BAB and HP advantage, along with faster healing (both ignore each others' DR). The Tarrasque also has the advantage of being immortal. So if the Squid decides to foolishly fight the Tarrasque, it loses. It could try to batter the Tarrasque with Singularity, but it cannot really deal enough damage to bypass The Tarrasque's Regeneration with it. That said, The Tarrasque will be failing those checks aplenty and by lots; it has mere +17 Str. However, using it once draws the Tarrasque to the Black Hole Squid allowing Tarr to rip the Squid apart. So, due to its superior wrestling skills, the Tarrasque wins.

[Gaire]

Black Hole Squid. It can swallow the Tarrasque whole, while the Tarrasque can't swallow the Squid

[vegetalss4]

the Tarrasque on acount of the squid being unable to kill it. and that its minimum damage are less than T's regeneration. meaning that sooner or late big T will be able to attack it for enough rounds to kill it. mind you this would be a very drawn out battle, but sooner or later big T would win.

[Eldariel]

Black Hole Squid. It can swallow the Tarrasque whole, while the Tarrasque can't swallow the Squid

Swallowing whole requires a successful Grapple-check, something the Squid won't be doing.

EDIT: 64 vs. 81, meaning that the Squid has to roll 19 or 20 vs. T's 1 to succeed. It won't have the rounds, I'd wager, especially if Big T pins it. Also, Big T can Power Attack for 20 and still autohit meaning that the non-grappling battle is also pretty bad for the Squid. And if it ends up inside, it can PA for 40 to break out automatically each round, only needing to make the DC 30 Str-check which is quite easy for it; mere 13 required, so 40% chances.

[Gaire]

Swallowing whole requires a successful Grapple-check, something the Squid won't be doing.

EDIT: 64 vs. 81, meaning that the Squid has to roll 19 or 20 vs. T's 1 to succeed. It won't have the rounds, I'd wager, especially if Big T pins it. Also, Big T can Power Attack for 20 and still autohit meaning that the non-grappling battle is also pretty bad for the Squid. And if it ends up inside, it can PA for 40 to break out automatically each round, only needing to make the DC 30 Str-check which is quite easy for it; mere 13 required, so 40% chances.

Very true. Sorry, I didn't measure the stats against each other well enough.

Of course, we have to consider where they're fighting. There's no battleground that's fair for both of them. On land, T has a major advantage because he's going against a squid- given, a squid that spends most of its time in space, but a squid all the same. On or underwater or in space, the squid has the advantage, because T has to breathe.

[vegetalss4]

we could place them in the arstral plane.
solid enough to be walked through. liguid enough to be swammed through.

[Innis Cabal]

Its not canon that it was made by the Mind Flayers. As stated, there is a whole planet of them in spell jammer.

Another theory is they were made by the Princes of Elemental Evil. Which has been supported in some places

[Athaniar]

Isn't 4e Tarrasque a Primordial?

[Gaire]

4e Tarrasque is a primordial who CAN'T be killed, he just goes back to the center of the earth for X years. 3.5 Tarrasque can be killed, it's just one of the hardest things to do. Which brings up the point that, no matter which version of Tarrasque we use, unless the Squid has help from a caster, he can't kill Tarrasque.

[Eldariel]

Can't be killed by Mortals anyways. All you need to do is to ascend to divinity (which seems to be about as hard as getting your Ph.D. in FR) and you can make it go away.

[Artanis]

I think that if the Tarrasque fights a Black Hole Squid, then no matter who wins, we all lose

[bosssmiley]

So I was thinking the other day about the Tarrasque, when it struck me- where the heck does a creature like the Tarrasque come from? I mean, it can't reproduce sexually and there's no proof of asexual reproduction. Is the Tarrasque a super-powerful mutant from one of the monstrous species? Is it some sort of hold-over from when the gods created the world?

I think that's a matter of Canon Doubt and Uncertainty.

Obviously, it's just there to serve as an end boss for DnD, but it still makes me wonder.

Nah, the Tarrasque is just a natural disaster with HD and a CR. The various demon lords and godlings are the final bosses of D&D. You gank Orcus, claim the skull wand, and ascend to your throne in the Abyss as the new CEO of Orcus Inc. (it's the METAL! thing to do).

[Starbuck_II]

I think that if the Tarrasque fights a Black Hole Squid, then no matter who wins, we all lose

I see what you did there.

But if Tarres fights one he acts like Godzilla in a way: sure he cause death and destruction, but we need him.
Without him, he represents our heart. We may forget it is there, but you can't live without it.

[herrhauptmann]

I wish I could quote which adventure module it was in, but a friend from work was telling me about an adventure he played:
In the dawn of time, there were 2 tarrasques, a male and a female, and together they were more powerful than any of the gods. (Each had 20+ class levels in addition to the stats given in the Monster Manual).
In a daring plan, the gods were able to temporarily separate the two, and in that brief instance they lobotomized the male tarrasque (who was a little weaker than the female), turning him into the mindless engine of distraction we all know and love.
While the female was still as intelligent and powerful as ever, she was now essentially alone, and the gods managed to lock her in pocket demiplane.
*****************************
Now, what makes this adventure so interesting, my friend told me they eventually came to a fork in the road. Down one path, they would enter the demiplane of the female tarrasque (who had 20 levels of Cleric), in the other, they would pass through a city of liches and demi-liches, ruled by deathknights. They chose the city.

[TheCountAlucard]

It's obvious...

A Wizard did it.

[Assassin89]

It's obvious...

A Wizard did it.

Isn't that the same reason for the existence of the Owlbear, the Penguinlion, the ducksnake, the Bunnywolf or the quailtiger?

[TheCountAlucard]

Don't forget the Squidshark...

[Gaire]

Even the most powerful, most diabolical evil god isn't as much a threat to the peace as a bored wizard.

[MCerberus]

Even the most powerful, most diabolical evil god isn't as much a threat to the peace as a bored wizard.

Why are the two mutually exclusive?

One day Vecna was bored. He created something "quaint" and put it in a cave with an alarm clock it can't shut off. Oops forgot to feed it! Most scholars agree that this was a "D move".

[Ganurath]

I personally theorize that the Tarrasque is the equivolent of the Six in Shadow from among the ranks of Tharizdun's followers. The only reason it survived was because they Six didn't know what they need to do to keep it dead, so just moved on after violencing it to hibernation mode.

[Heliomance]

I was under the impression that no-one - not even the gods - were quite sure where it came from. Apparently the 2nd ed Tarrasque was even gnarlier, to the point where it made the gods slightly nervous. The 3.5 Tarrasque is quite easy to deal with - Charm Monster will do it. One guy I know theorises that the Lady of Pain might have had something to do with it, possibly.

[BobVosh]

I wish I could quote which adventure module it was in, but a friend from work was telling me about an adventure he played:
In the dawn of time, there were 2 tarrasques, a male and a female, and together they were more powerful than any of the gods. (Each had 20+ class levels in addition to the stats given in the Monster Manual).
In a daring plan, the gods were able to temporarily separate the two, and in that brief instance they lobotomized the male tarrasque (who was a little weaker than the female), turning him into the mindless engine of distraction we all know and love.
While the female was still as intelligent and powerful as ever, she was now essentially alone, and the gods managed to lock her in pocket demiplane.
*****************************
Now, what makes this adventure so interesting, my friend told me they eventually came to a fork in the road. Down one path, they would enter the demiplane of the female tarrasque (who had 20 levels of Cleric), in the other, they would pass through a city of liches and demi-liches, ruled by deathknights. They chose the city.

That is kinda neat actually. Although...if the gods feared them, who were they clerics to?