Nimblewrights as PCs

[sonofzeal]

Have Nimblewrights ever been given an LA? And, either way, what do you think a good LA would be for one, to make it playable (given that they already have 10 racial HD)? Has anyone put together a Progression for one, or made a homebrew that's more PC friendly?

Also: Nimblewrights are badass. Discuss.

[Keld Denar]

Nimblewrights are pretty badass. I think thats most of the problem. Construct traits are sttrong, and Nimblewrights are one of the better constructs out there. I'd sadly have to put them at about a +4 on TOP of their 10 HD.

As far as a progression...I wouldn't touch that project with YOUR 11' pole...
*shudder*

[Alleine]

I'd agree with Keld Denar, they are very powerful. LA would have to be very high, and you'd never be able to pay it off.
As for progression... I suck at making a balanced progression that makes sense.

[sonofzeal]

Agreed that they're pretty far out there. However, I'm finding it important for a certain "theme" build (specifically, I'm trying to make Cutie Honey) to have a dexterous Construct with Alter Self that fights effectively with rapiers. Now, I could do that with Warforged, but that seems a bit of a shame, y'know? A playable Nimblewright would handle most of the requirements of the theme in one sleek, badass package.

I just checked MM2 errata lists them as having LA+6, on top of their 10 racial hitdice. But ECL 16 seems really excessive for something with 75 hp and saves of 3/10/6, even if it is a construct. It's got a stellar offense, but any reasonable melee threat at that level is pretty much going to auto-OHKO it. Does removing the racial hitdice sound reasonable? A +6 LA alone is still enough to keep the character well in check, IMO.

[Alleine]

Ditching HD usually sounds good, but those HD are there for a reason. Its caster level, for one. You lose the HD, suddenly all the spell-like abilities are gonna be pretty worthless, unless you have a way to make up for it.
It doesn't really need good saves, either. Construct traits take care of a lot of that for it, in addition to SR.

I don't think I can really give you any good advice one making this work other than go ask your DM to help you work it out. He can hopefully find some way to work you into a campaign without ruining things for either of you.

[sonofzeal]

Ditching HD usually sounds good, but those HD are there for a reason. Its caster level, for one. You lose the HD, suddenly all the spell-like abilities are gonna be pretty worthless, unless you have a way to make up for it.
It doesn't really need good saves, either. Construct traits take care of a lot of that for it, in addition to SR.

I don't think I can really give you any good advice one making this work other than go ask your DM to help you work it out. He can hopefully find some way to work you into a campaign without ruining things for either of you.

Yeah, construct traits + SR help a lot, but it's still highly fragile. And what it loses from dropped racial HD can be made up easily, by basing them on actual HD. That means that it'll be not very useful at ECL7, but by ECL10 it has four class levels (possibly Swordsage), giving it decent durations. The SR is HD+17, which sounds huge... but effectively works out to ECL+11, which is entirely reasonable. And of course buyoff is not an option with LA that high. Still, that does mean that it won't really be playable before ECL10.... which is better than nothing, I guess.

I'll be working with my DM on this of course, but my DM is a relative newb when it comes to rules (even though she's one of the most gifted DMs I've had), and I believe I'm the only person in our group who fully understands about racial HDs and ECLs and whatnot.

[Iku Rex]

I just checked MM2 errata lists them as having LA+6, on top of their 10 racial hitdice. But ECL 16 seems really excessive for something with 75 hp and saves of 3/10/6, even if it is a construct. It's got a stellar offense, but any reasonable melee threat at that level is pretty much going to auto-OHKO it. Does removing the racial hitdice sound reasonable? A +6 LA alone is still enough to keep the character well in check, IMO.

Don't forget PC equipment, feats and ability scores.

But yes, +6 is a lot. Removing racial HD would not be unbalanced.

(I'd still go with a warforged.)

[Ascension]

I'd use a Changeling fluffed as a construct humanlike enough that it/she has organic weaknesses.

EDIT: To clarify, I think the disguise factor is more important to Honey's character than the android factor...

[Fizban]

LA +6 is going to kill any character, what you should do is keep racial HD and remove some or all of the LA. Compare what it can do to a 10th level character. It has a few low level spells at will which most characters could keep up all day if they wanted, and some resistances and immunities. Construct type is almost a wash to begin with since your d10 HD and lack of con score means squat for hp. I don't remember the CR, but if it's lower than 10, I say just ignore the LA and run with the 10HD.

[metalbear]

It has a CR of 7.

[AslanCross]

Nimblewrights are indeed badass. Before I saw the MM2 3.5 errata, however, I homebrewed my own version to make it more usable in my campaign. I made it Large, though.

I certainly wouldn't want to play one as a PC, though. As has been mentioned, the LA is going to make things difficult for you.

[sonofzeal]

Nimblewrights are indeed badass. Before I saw the MM2 3.5 errata, however, I homebrewed my own version to make it more usable in my campaign. I made it Large, though.

I certainly wouldn't want to play one as a PC, though. As has been mentioned, the LA is going to make things difficult for you.

I realize and accept that the LA is borked at those levels. If it wasn't, I'd play the class as-written. As it is, I'm trying to work out an un-borked way to play them.

Put it this way - ignoring the listed LA/RHD for now, and looking purely at the statblock, what ECL of character would they fit with best? Does ECL10 sound reasonable?