Warforged Monk

[drfate]

I know that this has probably asked about before but thats why Im asking. A players of mine wants to play a Warforged Monk. And I have some questions about it.

1: Does his composite plating negate his AC bonus for his wisdom
2: if composite plating does not interfere would allowing him to enchant his composite playing with a something like slick or Fire reistance be ok? i know many may think no since you need a +1 enchancement bonus to get enchantments but thats not fair to warforged. A monk could be robes of fire reistance, but warforged can wear robes.

Or simply put does Warforged need unarmed body to be a monk?

[Alleine]

2: if composite plating does not interfere would allowing him to enchant his composite playing with a something like slick or Fire reistance be ok? i know many may think no since you need a +1 enchancement bonus to get enchantments but thats not fair to warforged. A monk could be robes of fire reistance, but warforged can wear robes.

A warforged can get his composite plating enchanted. So he can get +1 and then add fire resistance.

[Zeful]

1: Does his composite plating negate his AC bonus for his wisdom

Yes. Warforged composite plating is armor. A monk with composite plating would not get his Wis bonus to AC

2: if composite plating does not interfere would allowing him to enchant his composite playing with a something like slick or Fire reistance be ok? i know many may think no since you need a +1 enchancement bonus to get enchantments but thats not fair to warforged. A monk could be robes of fire reistance, but warforged can wear robes.

Warforged Composite plating is armor and can be enchanted as armor. Like armor the plating must have a minimum of a +1 enhancement bonus before other enhancements can be added.

Or simply put does Warforged need unarmed body to be a monk?

No, in order to get the full benefits of being a monk they need unarmed body.

[MCerberus]

For 1, I'd rule that it doesn't cancel out the wisdom AC. The section on Warforged seem to be very careful to not call it armor. It also doesn't give the standard plating an armor type, while the two feats say you're considered to be wearing light/heavy armor, respectively.

[wadledo]

Use Swordsage N00B.

But seriously, it's completely acceptable for a warforged to get his armor enchanted.
It's actualy commonplace for PC's.

[Bagera]

I know that this has probably asked about before but thats why Im asking. A players of mine wants to play a Warforged Monk. And I have some questions about it.

1: Does his composite plating negate his AC bonus for his wisdom

Or simply put does Warforged need unarmed body to be a monk?

No the plating doesn't interfere with his ac, this is addressed in races of ebberon also a warforged can enchant his hands like weapons, and there are feats that allow him hands to damage like cold iron, or silver to boot.

[NEO|Phyte]

Yes. Warforged composite plating is armor. A monk with composite plating would not get his Wis bonus to AC.

It is armor, but it does not count as WEARING armor. If just having an armor bonus killed the monk bonus, than Mage Armor, Bracers of Armor, and everything else that gives an armor bonus would be out.

[Zeful]

For 1, I'd rule that it doesn't cancel out the wisdom AC. The section on Warforged seem to be very careful to not call it armor. It also doesn't give the standard plating an armor type, while the two feats say you're considered to be wearing light/heavy armor, respectively.

You are right. The entry on composite plating is odd, especially in comparison to it's feats. The Composite plating has no max dex, as unarmored body, but unlike the other two armor feats. But you can't wear armor, have arcane spell failure, unless he can ignore the spell failure for light armor, allowing him to ignore it. As well as making no mention of the restrictions of character classes that would normally have restrictions for wearing armor. Even Ironwood Body, which states you are considered to be wearing light armor also does not have the line which Mithral Body has "Warforged characters with this feat do not gain the benefit of any class feature prohibited to a character wearing light armor." Odd that.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

It is armor, but it does not count as WEARING armor. If just having an armor bonus killed the monk bonus, than Mage Armor, Bracers of Armor, and everything else that gives an armor bonus would be out.

Sorry, but in Races of Eberon, the Warforged Armor Plating counts as Light Armor, with an ASF of 15%. Since it counts as light armor, it negates a Monk's AC bonus, unless you were to take the feat Unarmored Body at 1st level.

Ironically, as an Unarmed Swordsage, you could pull it off without having to blow a feat. If you really wanted to, you could get Mithral Body at 1st level instead, the AC bonus would stack, and you could get it further enchanted.

[NEO|Phyte]

Sorry, but in Races of Eberon, the Warforged Armor Plating counts as Light Armor, with an ASF of 15%. Since it counts as light armor, it negates a Monk's AC bonus, unless you were to take the feat Unarmored Body at 1st level.

I'm not sure what Warforged stats you're looking at, but the ones on page 8 of RoE has ASF of 5% and doesn't count as light armor.

[Zeful]

Sorry, but in Races of Eberon, the Warforged Armor Plating counts as Light Armor, with an ASF of 15%. Since it counts as light armor, it negates a Monk's AC bonus, unless you were to take the feat Unarmored Body at 1st level.

What page and where. My copy of Races of Ebberon has no mention of the class of armor the Composite Plating is with the exception of how it interacts with features that ignore ASF in light armors. It also lists the ASF as 5%.

Ironically, as an Unarmed Swordsage, you could pull it off without having to blow a feat. If you really wanted to, you could get Mithral Body at 1st level instead, the AC bonus would stack, and you could get it further enchanted.

Technically, no, you would have to either take the Mithral Body or Ironwood Body feats in order to gain the Unarmed Swordsage's bonus to AC in Light Armor. As the book I am reading from as I make this post does not list the Composite Plating racial feature as being any type of armor except for the purposes of ignoring ASF. In fact a Warforged Monk/Unarmed Swordsage can get wisdom to AC twice by taking the Ironwood Body feat which does not have the line "Warforged Characters with this feat do not gain the benefit of any class feature prohibited to a character wearing light armor." which is present in the Mithral Body feat.

[wadledo]

Technically, no, you would have to either take the Mithral Body or Ironwood Body feats in order to gain the Unarmed Swordsage's bonus to AC in Light Armor.

It is also in no armor.

And you can't get it twice because WotC has stated multiple times that because they have the same name(I think that's the reasoning, but I'll have to check) they don't stack.

[Vexxation]

It is also in no armor.

By RAW, no, it isn't.

...so long as they wear light armor, are unencumbered, and do not use a shield"

[wadledo]

By RAW, no, it isn't.

By RAW, I can heal a person by drowning them.
Tome Of Battle Errata.
Not actual RAW, but RAI, and considered safe for the most part.

Look near the bottom of the third post.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

What page and where. My copy of Races of Ebberon has no mention of the class of armor the Composite Plating is with the exception of how it interacts with features that ignore ASF in light armors. It also lists the ASF as 5%.

Correct, at the top of Page 9 of Races of Eberon, it states that the armor is Light, although you are correct in that it has a 5%, rather than 15% ASF.

Technically, no, you would have to either take the Mithral Body or Ironwood Body feats in order to gain the Unarmed Swordsage's bonus to AC in Light Armor. As the book I am reading from as I make this post does not list the Composite Plating racial feature as being any type of armor except for the purposes of ignoring ASF. In fact a Warforged Monk/Unarmed Swordsage can get wisdom to AC twice by taking the Ironwood Body feat which does not have the line "Warforged Characters with this feat do not gain the benefit of any class feature prohibited to a character wearing light armor." which is present in the Mithral Body feat.

Errata fixed this loophole.

[NEO|Phyte]

Correct, at the top of Page 9 of Races of Eberon, it states that the armor is Light, although you are correct in that it has a 5%, rather than 15% ASF.

It does not state that the armor is Light, it states it has ASF, "similar to the penalty for wearing light armor," then goes on to say that class abilities that allow you to ignore ASF from light armor also works on the 'forged ASF.

[Zeful]

By RAW, I can heal a person by drowning them.
Tome Of Battle Errata.
Not actual RAW, but RAI, and considered safe for the most part.

Look near the bottom of the third post.

I'm getting a redirect loop from your link wadledo.

Are you talking about the line I my sig?

Correct, at the top of Page 9 of Races of Eberon, it states that the armor is Light, although you are correct in that it has a 5%, rather than 15% ASF.

It states that the ASF penalty is similar to light armor, and that abilities that ignore ASF from light armors include Warforged Composite Plating, but nowhere does it state that it is Light armor or that classes prohibited from using light armors suffer any penalty for having it, like the Mithral Body feat and assumingly the errataed Ironwood Body feat.

[wadledo]

I'm getting a redirect loop from your link wadledo.

Are you talking about the line I my sig?

Put Tome of Battle errata in Google.
It should be the first page.

[Zeful]

Still getting a redirect loop from the first result in the first result in this search. The archive thread just below it leads me here and the third post there is about Inferno Blast.

[MammonAzrael]

Strange about the redirect loop, it's the correct link.

[Zeful]

Must be a Firefox thing. IE went right to the appropriate page.

[Attilargh]

It's not a Firefox thing, it works just fine for me.

[drfate]

Ok. Thanks everybody. So i'll say that a warforged monk can get the AC bonus from his wisdom since composite playing doesnt count as light armor.

But does it seem unfair that a Warforged monk can enchant his composite plating to increase his AC while a regular monk would have to wear armor to do that which would negate the wisdom AC bonus. Im going to rule that they cant do this. I a warforged monk wants more ac they can buy bracers of AC, rings of protection and amulets of natural armor.

The only thing that Im still not to sure about is that robes something a monk can wear. Could not be worn by a Warforged Monk because they cant wear armor or robes. Is there some way to give warforged the benefit of lets say the Robe of Eyes with him actually wearing robes. I suppose I could just make a component for them that does the same thing. Just wondering how that sounds and what you guys think.

[The Glyphstone]

Have you considered allowing the old 3.0 Arms and Equipment Guide rule that let you enchant Bracers of Armor as if they were actual armor for things like Fire Resistance? House rules that add options are, IMO, more fun for players than house rules that take them away, even if the balance between the two is the same once the dust settles.

[Zeful]

Ok. Thanks everybody. So i'll say that a warforged monk can get the AC bonus from his wisdom since composite playing doesnt count as light armor.

But does it seem unfair that a Warforged monk can enchant his composite plating to increase his AC while a regular monk would have to wear armor to do that which would negate the wisdom AC bonus. Im going to rule that they cant do this. I a warforged monk wants more ac they can buy bracers of AC, rings of protection and amulets of natural armor.

The only thing that Im still not to sure about is that robes something a monk can wear. Could not be worn by a Warforged Monk because they cant wear armor or robes. Is there some way to give warforged the benefit of lets say the Robe of Eyes with him actually wearing robes. I suppose I could just make a component for them that does the same thing. Just wondering how that sounds and what you guys think.

You could write a set of Warforged Monk Racial substitution levels that delay Flurry of Blows two levels for Unarmored Body as a first level bonus feat or something to that effect.

[tyckspoon]

Ok. Thanks everybody. So i'll say that a warforged monk can get the AC bonus from his wisdom since composite playing doesnt count as light armor.

But does it seem unfair that a Warforged monk can enchant his composite plating to increase his AC while a regular monk would have to wear armor to do that which would negate the wisdom AC bonus. Im going to rule that they cant do this. I a warforged monk wants more ac they can buy bracers of AC, rings of protection and amulets of natural armor.

The only thing that Im still not to sure about is that robes something a monk can wear. Could not be worn by a Warforged Monk because they cant wear armor or robes. Is there some way to give warforged the benefit of lets say the Robe of Eyes with him actually wearing robes. I suppose I could just make a component for them that does the same thing. Just wondering how that sounds and what you guys think.

Do the rules say the physically cannot wear robes, or just that they normally don't because Composite Plating occupies the same space? If it's the first, it'll require a little bit of homebrewing/overriding the rules, but that should be easy to do. Warforged components are probably the right framework to use for it. If it's the second, they can just wear the robes anyway and choose to forgo the normal benefits of their armor, as per the usual rules for carrying too many of a slot-limited item- characters can wear ten rings or a half dozen amulets if they want, but only one (or two for the rings) can actually be active at any time. The only real concern I can foresee is what to do with the AC bonus, since it makes no sense to deactivate a mundane armor bonus but leaving it on may present balancing concerns. I'd leave it on, personally- a few points of basic Armor AC shouldn't make too much difference in the end, especially since wearing and using a robe would negate any magical effects on the armor.

[skeeter_dan]

But does it seem unfair that a Warforged monk can enchant his composite plating to increase his AC while a regular monk would have to wear armor to do that which would negate the wisdom AC bonus. Im going to rule that they cant do this. I a warforged monk wants more ac they can buy bracers of AC, rings of protection and amulets of natural armor.

Honestly, letting a warforged monk enchant his armor is not even close to gamebreaking. Monk is a weak enough class that giving a warforged monk the ability to enchant his fists and armor is a step in the right direction towards balancing the class.

[Zeful]

I'm away from my book at the moment but Composite Plating states that a Warforged character cannot gain the benefit of magic armor and robes they wear. And due to the clumsy wording of Unarmored Body, that line isn't technically invalidated. So if I'm recalling things right, Warforged can never gain the benefits of magic armor (other than their enchanted Composite Plating) and robes by RAW. Which is stupid, I'd change Unarmored body to read: "You forefit your composite plating racial feature." Simple.