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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Vaarsuvius4181's Avatar

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    Default Raistli-wups i mean vaarsuvius. Odlly similar...

    Does anyone realize this is nearly the exact turn of events that made raistlin become evil??
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Raenir Salazar's Avatar

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    Default Re: Raistli-wups i mean vaarsuvius. Odlly similar...

    *blink* Raistlin never really had a "turn" of events, it was always within his capabilities to do what he did to gain power in the magic.

    In Soulforge no White robe would have visited that seedy establishment, willingly consorted with exiled elves, or accepted Fistandilus's offer. Raistlin it is said was fully capable of completing the test and fighting those Elves on his own, he made a choice to willingly consort with a demi lich to gain "ultimate arcane power".

    V is in a completely different situation, she doesn't have the ability to take on a random black dragon, was outsmarted, outgunned at every turn in this encounter, accepted any bargain to gain either ultimate power or defeat get away from the dragon would be out of desperation. As V being an Elf knows she can spend another 700 years clawing her way to power.

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    Default Re: Raistli-wups i mean vaarsuvius. Odlly similar...

    If you mean abruptly ditching one's party in the middle of the ocean, then yes, the parallel is uncanny. Raistlin's been pinned by a dragon or two also, IIRC.

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    Default Re: Raistli-wups i mean vaarsuvius. Odlly similar...

    Wow, I didn't know many other people had read those books
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Raenir Salazar's Avatar

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    Default Re: Raistli-wups i mean vaarsuvius. Odlly similar...

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    If you mean abruptly ditching one's party in the middle of the ocean, then yes, the parallel is uncanny. Raistlin's been pinned by a dragon or two also, IIRC.
    Hmm these two events escaped me when I wrote my post, my apologies but should be pointed out that these weren't exactly cause and effect here, I think Raistlin since the Test was at any time capable of doing anything he did, he simply chose not to until he felt that the rewards in the magic outweighed the betreyal of his friends. V I would argue was not capable of the above until after she got separated by Haley and had to deal with Miko.

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    Default Re: Raistli-wups i mean vaarsuvius. Odlly similar...

    Raistlin made it explicit that he wasn't really friends with anybody in the party. They just happened to have the same goals at the same time. Even in the prequels, he only associated with them purely because his brother did or because they were useful acquaintances.

    He didn't have their respect or trust and was arguably the only member who would openly admit this fact. It's just that they pretended to be his friend that infuriated him.

    V actually does actually respect and feel loyal to Roy and Haley. And V is risking his life for Haley's sake. V is also arguably loyal to Durkon and Elan to some lesser degree.

    V isn't even really tempted by the Faustian bargain. Raistlin has no such compunctions.
    Last edited by LurkerInPlayground; 2009-01-31 at 08:09 PM.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Raenir Salazar's Avatar

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    Default Re: Raistli-wups i mean vaarsuvius. Odlly similar...

    Well Dragonlance doesn't have the 9 Hells where dealing with Devils could have your soul damned for eternity. Had the consequences been that for dealing with Fistantilus I am certain he would have thought twice. As it was the risk of death is the most he has ever had to deal with, never has his soul been in question except when he had a change of heart in the Abyss, and what happened at worst put into a restful sleep by Paladine?

    Sacrificing his body, his friends, his pride for the magic he would do willingly at any time and would do it over again, I think even Raistlin would have had second thoughts about risking eternal damnation.

    There is a passage in the second book where it implies that at some point Raistlin had may have had some degree of respect and at the very least loyalty with the other party members but sacrificed it in a heart beat during Loracs Dream. I think you hit it on the head for 90% of the time, but I am hesitant to believe Raistlin would go for a Faustian Bargain unless it was a really really good deal that he was 100% confident he could manipulate it to his advantage and somehow get out of it with his soul not damned.

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    Default Re: Raistli-wups i mean vaarsuvius. Odlly similar...

    What i was referring too was not the boat, it was the fact that raistlin became frustrated with how much he depended on others and how he wanted more power. that is why he left his friends on the boat. Also, alot of people read dragonlance. in my school library lol. I was just saying that V is gonna end up like raist.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sgeo
    So Vaarsuvius is an Epic Whatsit now. "Whatsit". I think I like that term.

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    Default Re: Raistli-wups i mean vaarsuvius. Odlly similar...

    Well its nothing new, I have been saying that V was gonna do a Raistlin ever since I heard the Oracle prophecy (and yes, I really said it like that). But apart from the whole: «arrogant and smart wizard becoming slowly but surely darker and more evil in their pursuit for ultimate arcane power» they have very different things in their backgrounds and situations. For examples Raistlin actually got lots excuses for becoming evil: he was treated like crap for most of his life, felt like crap for most of his life, was in constant extreme physical and mental pain and was never taken seriously except by those who feared him (and the gully dwarves but he really liked those) while for V its mainly post-traumatic disorder and arrogance...though he could get much better reasons to become evil soon if the dragon really kill his children.

    Anyway, its just that, while I definitly see the similarity between Raistlin and V, I just dont see how the «turns of event who made them evil» is supposed to be similar...especially since I cant think of just one things who made them evils but lots of things combined. Beside, V is not evil yet though the people arguing that hes good just make me laugh.
    Last edited by Querzis; 2009-02-01 at 06:38 PM.
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    Default Re: Raistli-wups i mean vaarsuvius. Odlly similar...

    I remember when you said that, I had it sig'd for a while... Small forum.

    Anyway, Raistlin was always more lawful than anything else. He was devoted to the Magick. V is just being an arrogant jerk.
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    Default Re: Raistli-wups i mean vaarsuvius. Odlly similar...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lupy View Post
    I remember when you said that, I had it sig'd for a while... Small forum.

    Anyway, Raistlin was always more lawful than anything else. He was devoted to the Magick. V is just being an arrogant jerk.
    Raistlin couldn't have been lawful; he had no respect for even legitimate authority, lied frequently and compulsively to gain advantage, and had no compunctions about betraying even his brother for his own goals. I peg him as Neutral Evil.

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    Default Re: Raistli-wups i mean vaarsuvius. Odlly similar...

    I'm playing Dragonlance at the moment. In that Raistlin is neutral, and I believe that is the case in the books as well to begin with. He later decides to become evil, because magic power is the most important thing to him. But it does not have to play out that way, and often does not, in the scenario.
    The player who has Raistlin at the moment is fairly... jovial.
    Also we had Riverwind pinned by the dragon. It seemsed more dramatic given that Goldmoon has to take action at this point, and she is risking her true loves death (as opposed to someone she met but doesn't know that well). Hehe, you should have seen the panic in their eyes.
    Fun scenario.
    I'm playing Tas. As such I don't make very important decisions, so I can sit in the corner and let everyone forget I know the plot.

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