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  1. - Top - End - #91
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: OOTS #628 - The Discussion Thread

    I just noticed when I went back to #186 to reread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Dragon Jr
    The wheels on the bus go round and round...
    Could that have been a veiled threat that he would be avenged? That would have been pretty awesome.
    Last edited by RMS Oceanic; 2009-02-01 at 02:48 PM.
    "They couldn't know that the points from the mainline to the siding were frozen, and the signal should have been set at 'DANGER', but snow had forced it down."
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  2. - Top - End - #92
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #628 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MReav View Post
    I don't think V'll achieve ultimate arcane power to save V's kids. V'll do it for revenge.
    That sounds possible,

    V will achieve ultimate arcane power when he/her says

    The right 4 words,
    At the right time, (hopfully soon)
    to the right person, (maybe quarr or the dragon)

    for all the wrong reasons. (to save V's children, to get revenge on someone)

    Just throwing out a guess.
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  3. - Top - End - #93
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    Default Re: OOTS #628 - The Discussion Thread

    Why would saving her children be a 'wrong' reason? I think revenge fits it well though.

  4. - Top - End - #94
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    Default Re: OOTS #628 - The Discussion Thread

    Hats off to this one. A very compelling twist indeed.
    Corn is no place for a mighty warrior!

  5. - Top - End - #95
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    Default Re: OOTS #628 - The Discussion Thread

    Oh. Oh, my. I am ****ing loving this.

    Panel before this one was nothing but pure black draconic RAGE. Now? It's beyond rage and into murder in cold blood-methodically chop-dispose into dumpsters kind of growling, heart-clenching fury.

    V is learning really hard, really fast, that every single thing he/she and his/her former associates did comes with a price.
    Last edited by Milanius; 2009-02-01 at 02:58 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #96
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    Default Re: OOTS #628 - The Discussion Thread

    First thought: "Whaaat?"
    Second thought: "Riiich!"
    Third thought: "Will we uncover the mystery of gender (which I still hold to be female)?"
    Final thought: "The children are going to see her and both exclaim different genders (i.e. "Mom!" "Dad!"), and is going to be a joke, with the children arguing over which parental figure V is."

    Also, I must yet again congratulate you, Rich, for having a storytelling mind far beyond mine and most of the world.
    Member of the Vaarsuvius Fan Club!

  7. - Top - End - #97
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    Default Re: OOTS #628 - The Discussion Thread

    Under Sympathetic Villain in Exemplars of Evil, the quote is:

    "They killed my children. Can you blame me for wanting to kill theirs?"

    (also- if we treat the dragons lair, unlike Dorukan's home, as not stolen property but actual private residence, the Order went there with the sole intention of taking the dragon's property, and killed the dragon in the process. Technically homicide, even if the dragon attacked them first, since killing while committing a felony is murder)

    Now D&D probably makes exceptions for Always Evil creatures, still, it does show the Moral Dissonance, especially since in some traditions killing a burglar who has broken into your home at night is not murder.

    It is these days though.

  8. - Top - End - #98
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    Default Re: OOTS #628 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    Remember that when V killed the dragon, it had been Charmed. Admittedly it was on the last round, but still, a charmed monster is considered the moral equivalent of a helpless prisoner.
    Call me crazy but wasn't the joke in that strip that V's excessive verbage wasted what little time was left, but it didn't matter because of fresh spells?

    Also by your reasoning any number of disabling spells would be evil in that the target is helpless until hit for a short duration. Suggestion could not be used to make the dragon imprison itself. Attacking a person under suggestion is no more evil than a surprise round as they are perfectly capable of defending themselves afterwards. Just because V's attack was too strong for the dragon to survive doesn't make it evil even if it weren't a black dragon.

    Proof: Roy Coup de Gracing sleeping goblins (who I might add hadn't even initiated combat with the party) isn't even mentioned by the afterlife arbiter.

    So yea none of this prisoner alignment crap.

  9. - Top - End - #99
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    Default Re: OOTS #628 - The Discussion Thread

    V has children!?
    ·Bitzeralisis·
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    Default Re: OOTS #628 - The Discussion Thread

    Rich Burlew is a cruel man for posting these things one at time...

    Seem's like V will take Quarr up on his offer in order to pump his power up to the right level to take on the (presumeably) far more badass dragon than before in order to save his family. The question is, once the goal is achieved, will he be strong enough to cast off the ultimate power for the sake of his own elvanity?

  11. - Top - End - #101
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    Default Re: OOTS #628 - The Discussion Thread

    Wow.
    Didn't realise V had kids, but seeing the expression on his face, I think he does.

    Might be the great sacrifice one of them had to make...

    Also, I hope we'll see V's mate then. And kids, of course.

    EDIT: Oh, and of course, the second page isn't "full", which make anticipation stronger.
    Last edited by Lissou; 2009-02-01 at 03:23 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #102
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    Default Re: OOTS #628 - The Discussion Thread

    Woah. Just... woah.

    That is one pissed off dragon.

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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #628 - The Discussion Thread

    Wait... so we get both an epic villain anda look at V's backstory? Awesome! I love this dragon.
    "Veni, vidi, brutus spearium gloriosus"
    I came, I saw, I tore the thick bastards limb from limb.

  14. - Top - End - #104
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    Default Re: OOTS #628 - The Discussion Thread

    These last coupe of comics have been great!
    Children?
    Such an unexpected turn of events!
    One thing tough:
    This doesn't mean that V has children: Maybe the dragon just assumed that V has children?
    Got re-bit by the OOTS and Goblins! bug.

  15. - Top - End - #105
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    Default Re: OOTS #628 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Forealms View Post
    I got it right! I've now got a nice 2:187 record for guessing correctly!
    Sorry to burst your bubble but it was Webox who first mentioned the Oracle client idea back here, as early as in the 626 discussion thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Webox View Post
    This is one hell of a cliffhanger.

    Speculation ahoy.
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    Hmm... maybe that was the "Important Client" the oracle mentioned a while back, who went there to ask him who disintegrated his son/relative.
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  16. - Top - End - #106
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    Default Re: OOTS #628 - The Discussion Thread

    No worries. V's mate is a demi-god, and the kids are probably higher lvl than the Orders average party level :D

  17. - Top - End - #107
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    Default Re: OOTS #628 - The Discussion Thread

    As much as V is a main charecter/PC, I'm on the dragon's side. Her story is touching. And of course, the semi-evil "eye for an eye" thing she is doing is great too. *sigh* Unfortunatly, since V is a main charecter the dragon's plan will be ruined somehow, probably due to V making a deal with Quar and gaining ultimate power.
    Avatar by Gulaghar. Yeah.

    Quote Originally Posted by Julius Caesar, Shakespeare
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    The valiant never taste of death but once.
    Of all the wonders that I yet have heard,
    It seems to me most strange that men should fear,
    Seeing that death, a necessary end,
    Will come when it will come.
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  18. - Top - End - #108
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    Default Re: OOTS #628 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Zack Norglad View Post
    These last coupe of comics have been great!
    Children?
    Such an unexpected turn of events!
    One thing tough:
    This doesn't mean that V has children: Maybe the dragon just assumed that V has children?
    Yeah, but that would be the biggest anticlimax ever.

  19. - Top - End - #109
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    Default Re: OOTS #628 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Melchiades View Post
    I could've sworn the original comic title was 'A mother's worst nightmare'.
    I thought so too. Of course I do have a tendency to skip words and assume the "obvious" word is used, but such is my memory, and apparently the memory of others.

    As to those protesting males are parents too, the presumption that the mother-child bond is much stronger is the default assumption, and for good reason. Not that we can consider it automatic [My father was raised by his father, not his mother who wandered off trying to find herself or something.], but it should be assumed to be much the greater.

    In any case, those saying V is female have another string to their bow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfich
    Of course.....
    Now is the time when we cut back to Roy, Elan/Durkon, Haley/Belkar, Nale, or Xykon.
    Our writer is not one for cliffhangers. We did not cut away when Haley was helpless and in danger of immediate dicing and Belkar might be about to be cured. We cut when everything was "quiet", and might stay that way for some time. We left Elan and V when she went off to bed, not when they were battling the devil. O'Chul was not left over the acid, or at the edge of the rift. We left when he was going to sleep.
    So we will be sticking with V for another strip, and likely for several more.

    Maybe quite a few more. At this point in W&XP, I was assuming a successful defense, and was seeing this was hard to do in the remaining space. Now we are getting tight for space in the current volume, and something is introduced that could run for a hundred pages. I start to worry Roy is going to stay on the sidelines for another book.

    Quote Originally Posted by CelebrenIthil
    Maybe the dragon simply assumes V has children and might be proven wrong.
    Definitely a possibility in theory. V is a young elf, and having children, not child, at his age is pushing it. Given Origin
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    "20 years in diapers"
    , V would have knocked up/been knocked up about "age 14". It happens, but it doesn't fit easily into what we know of V's history.

    But it's too easy. We have this build-up and it is over right away? No, that is not likely to happen. V has some brats running around and they are in serious danger.

    Now the dragon may not be around for too long. She may still be serving mainly as a way to get a new familiar for V. But we do have the chance she will be doing quite a bit of battling vs V.

    Of course, the coloring this time is "off". Those who want to talk about illusions or delusions have some grounds now. [Not that it is clear it means anything. It could be that there is a bug in our writer's artist program and the change is just a work-around.]

    Quote Originally Posted by CelebrenIthil
    Also maybe the dragon means to rip any reproductive organ from V- thus killing hur (is that the correct word? XD) "children". >_>
    Too easy to cure, and too academic. While there are many who talk of the "sorrows" of not having children to work and worry yourself into an early grave over [where they grumble about you not leaving them a bigger estate], those without children manage to hold themselves together with new cars, expensive vacations,... for the most part. Being deprived of the pain of children hurts far more.

    Quote Originally Posted by CelebrenIthil
    But what about these creature's feelings, their attachement to their next of kin and everything?
    I am not concerned about the feelings of a man-eating tiger. If you wish to be part of its diet, that is your business.

    Quote Originally Posted by CelebrenIthil
    I hate how as a high-level adventurer you can just barge in front of a century-old dragon and just go "Pew I keel u 4 ur moniez!" and that's all there is to it.
    A lot of us prefer the more complex moral situations, but within reason, the adventurer is in the right.

    Quote Originally Posted by CelebrenIthil
    Of course the young dragon attacked them too but it was protecting their hoard.
    Rather obviously not morally adequate. While we might question the willingness of the party to be peaceful, there were ways to both allow them to show any peaceful intent, or to just warn them they were not to do certain things. So the dragon loses any moral safety here.

  20. - Top - End - #110
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    Default Re: OOTS #628 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by David Argall View Post
    Of course, the coloring this time is "off". Those who want to talk about illusions or delusions have some grounds now. [Not that it is clear it means anything. It could be that there is a bug in our writer's artist program and the change is just a work-around.]
    The anti-magic field is turning everything inside it to a duller colour. It's not a mistake, it's clearly on purpose.
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  21. - Top - End - #111
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    Default Re: OOTS #628 - The Discussion Thread

    An added bit of poetic justice I noticed rereading the original dragon-killing story: the young dragon did try to parlay. Not with the bipeds that invaded it's lair to steal it's treasure, of course, but with V (in his lizard form).

    V's response to finding there was an intelligent being she could communicate with was, of course, to use magic to over-ride it's will, and then (when he was done with it), she disintegrated it.

    But the kid tried to talk, and it seemed at least open to discussion at that point. Makes me more sympathetic to Mommy, here.

  22. - Top - End - #112
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    Default Re: OOTS #628 - The Discussion Thread

    Niiiice twist.

  23. - Top - End - #113
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    Default Re: OOTS #628 - The Discussion Thread



    I wondered why the forums were so slow, then I began to wonder if a new comic might be up. Of course, it was, so I went to check it out. Then I found out why the forums were slow. They are flooded by the awesome that is OOTS #628.
    Last edited by Athaniar; 2009-02-01 at 03:39 PM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #628 - The Discussion Thread

    Oh my. Oh my. OH MY!!! V has children?!?!?!?!?! I... on gods, I can believe it! (well, I can but... eh, you get what I mean...)... wow... poor dragoness, poor of her. It's the most awful thing, to lose a son. I always thought it was kind of mean to kill the dragon(when I knew it was on its draconic teens) but... I NEVER thought his parents would be involved. Heck, I thought his parents were long gone! I know, crazy, but still... oh gosh... V's children... poor V... poor V, too... I don't know who to side with! poor both!

    I have a baaad feeling... a seriouslu BAD feeling about this. Like this story is going to end far too soon for my liking. Wow... wow...

    That and moral issues aside, I hope to see V's mate and children. I also hope they end up alive otherwise, I don't want to think what V would do...
    Also, if the original title was "A mother's worst nightmare" it does not meant it was talking about V. Could be the dragon. (Not that I think V is male, I don't have a real side on those debates.) Or could be V. Oh god... now I can't wait!!!

    Great comic, Giant, even though a dramatic, sad one.
    An eye for an eye will make us all blind - Mahatma Ghandi.
    Technically, Fire is a chemical process, wherein Oxygen, a fuel, and heat trigger a quick, heat-releasing oxidative reaction that produces carbon dioxide and water vapor. This process is called Combustion. They're not called Combustionals, you know?
    Also Water is a molecule, Air is a bunch of different molecules, and don't let me get started on Earth.
    (Sorry, I'm a Chemist, can't resist.)

  25. - Top - End - #115
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    Default Re: OOTS #628 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaytara View Post
    ...I think I'm going to have to go with 'Bwuh?!'.

    While the dragon presents to us a real tale of woe, the young dragon DID attack them on sight. Presumably. The Order can't really be blamed for defending itself.
    so you hold the opinion that if potential thieves and murderers break into your home, you have no right to defend yourself?
    Quote Originally Posted by warty goblin View Post
    Blights are halted by the heroic, self-sacrificial actions of a couple of dudes. Throwing them into a land containing the ur-example of the modern pulp fantasy warrior is rather like tossing a sponge in the Pacific and wondering if it'll get wet.

  26. - Top - End - #116
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #628 - The Discussion Thread

    I wonder if this is all a mind game pulled out by Rich.
    Probably the dragon even asked the Oracle if V had children and where she could find them, if so why not try to trick her into thinking Belkar is V's son?
    The little kobold doesn't have much sympathy for the little bugger, that's for sure, and revenge is a dish best served...dissolved, in this case.

    Naaah, too far fetched, is it?
    Anyway, very good strip and nice cliffhanger.

  27. - Top - End - #117
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #628 - The Discussion Thread

    Excellent strip, great build-up and a really strong conclusion.

    Anyone taking bets on dragon's chances to make her "promise" come true?

    If it happened, it could be the price paid for reuniting the order, but that's a bit far-fetched.

  28. - Top - End - #118
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    Default Re: OOTS #628 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by David Argall View Post
    As to those protesting males are parents too, the presumption that the mother-child bond is much stronger is the default assumption, and for good reason. Not that we can consider it automatic [My father was raised by his father, not his mother who wandered off trying to find herself or something.], but it should be assumed to be much the greater.
    Why?
    I've heard this argument before, but the initiator very rarely sticks by the claims when introduced to logical conclusions such as:
    1) If you're arguing hormones and chromosomes: Then women should be the ones looking after the kids, after all they're giving them the more loving environment.
    2) If you're arguing physical bond: Adopted kids are loved less.

    Parent's worst nightmare is appropriate. I think if it was "Mother's" to begin with he may have been referencing the Dragon, and then decided to include V, or thought "They'll read too much into that".

    Quote Originally Posted by David Argall View Post
    Definitely a possibility in theory. V is a young elf, and having children, not child, at his age is pushing it. Given Origin
    Spoiler
    Show
    "20 years in diapers"
    , V would have knocked up/been knocked up about "age 14". It happens, but it doesn't fit easily into what we know of V's history.
    What we know of V's history includes that he was married.
    Twins are still a possibility in Elves as far as I know.
    Last edited by Baalthazaq; 2009-02-01 at 04:13 PM.

  29. - Top - End - #119
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    Default Re: OOTS #628 - The Discussion Thread

    Another crazy theory: what if what the dragon means is that V is pregnant? She said she would destroy both V and children.

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    Default Re: OOTS #628 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Xavius View Post
    Another crazy theory: what if what the dragon means is that V is pregnant? She said she would destroy both V and children.
    Well unless elfs have a very long pregnancy I think thats quite impossible. Unless V have had intercourse with someone behind the scenes that is.
    Last edited by Shadowcaller; 2009-02-01 at 04:06 PM.

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