Do I smell Cheese 3.X

[Bugbeartrap]

Hey Playgrounders,

I was flipping through my copy of Magic of Faerun and came across the spelldancer prestige class. The main attraction of this class is the ability to spelldance and apply metamagic feats by spending rounds instead. Now my question is, can't this be totally broken by persist and other metamagic? it gives no limit to how many levels you can erase with dancing, especially after you reach level 3 and can save on using it. Am I missing some rule about not being able to apply metamagic feats above a certain level. I'm thinking it might not be as broken as I think because it takes 4 feats to get in, including endurance *shudder*, and another 2 for persistent to work. Any thoughts?

[Animefunkmaster]

First, in 3.0 the balance is a little off. This does seem like a viable way to gain persist spell without spell levels.

Consider the following text

A spelldancer can safely spelldance a number of rounds per day equal to her Constitution modifier plus her spelldancer class level. Every spell she casts with spelldancing after that causes her to make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + total rounds spent spelldancing in the last day) to avoid taking 2 points of temporary Constitution damage and becoming fatigued (if already fatigued, the character becomes exhausted and can’t spelldance again until only fatigued).

In addition to that the erratta states:

If a spelldancer's Constitution modifier decreases so that she has exceeded the number of rounds she could safely spelldance, she must immediately make a successful Fortitude save for every round of excess spelldancing; each failure deals the above penalties.

Which seems to me to translate into possible a loop of loss con and needing to make saves again.

[Talic]

How about a spelldancer with an immunity to temporary ability damage and fatigue? There are spells that do both, make your first step persisting those, and you have unlimited spelldancing. Persist your spellbook.

[Frosty]

Why not just go Incantatrix if you want to abuse Persist and other metamagic?

[koldstare]

Why not just go Incantatrix if you want to abuse Persist and other metamagic?

Because the thought of the wizard waking up every morning then breakdancing for 20-30 minutes to become a perpetually persisted font of awesome is just cool.

[Malacode]

Because your DM is intelligent enough to ban Incantrix cheese, or you want to do something new and as yet untried? Of course, if your DM is intelligent at all, he'll ban your Spelldancer from Persisting spells that make him/her immune to negative effects, or adding a clause that states the the spelldancer must ALWAYS check, even if normally immune.

[FinalJustice]

Because the thought of the wizard waking up every morning then breakdancing for 20-30 minutes to become a perpetually persisted font of awesome is just cool.

Plus, he can go (Time)Stop, Hammertime! mid-battle to cast a metamagicked orb of doom.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Easy way to break this? Necropolitan.

[monty]

Plus, he can go (Time)Stop, Hammertime! mid-battle to cast ametamagicked orb of doom.

Except that you can't cast targeted spells in a (Time) Stop.

[FinalJustice]

Except that you can't cast targeted spells in a (Time) Stop.

But you can dance in a time stop, mitigating the dancing time with the virtual rounds. Next round you hurl the little ball'o doom.

This made me think, can you hold a Ranged Touch spell the same way you can hold a Touch Spell, to throw it later?

[Zen Monkey]

I don't know about cheese, but I smell a premise for an 80's movie. Two wizards who 'fight' by having a spellcasting dance-off? The poor sorcerer who's been picked on all through high school trains real hard (via musical montage featuring the lost art of saxaphone-rock, of course) and finally beats the rich preppie wizard at the All-Valley Magic Dance Tournament, and ends up winning the girl in the end.

[aje8]

I don't know about cheese, but I smell a premise for an 80's movie. Two wizards who 'fight' by having a spellcasting dance-off? The poor sorcerer who's been picked on all through high school trains real hard (via musical montage featuring the lost art of saxaphone-rock, of course) and finally beats the rich preppie wizard at the All-Valley Magic Dance Tournament, and ends up winning the girl in the end.

Better switch those rolls.

Wizard= Smart guy who studies all day, but isn't peppy.
Sorc= Natrual Talent guy who is VERY charismatic, but not that smart.

Thus, the move would probaly have the picked on Wizard study and practice all the most powerful spells and Dances (via montage) and beat the Charasmatic, Rich and popular Sorcerer.

[monty]

I see a problem with this, though. You'd have to leave your friends behind, unless they dance too.

[Glyphic]

I see a problem with this, though. You'd have to leave your friends behind, unless they dance too.

Do we have enough feats and PrC's for An all dancing party? The only one that comes to mind would be the 'Cloaked Dancer', Maybe a Sublime Chord who dances up a literal storm..

[monty]

Do we have enough feats and PrC's for An all dancing party? The only one that comes to mind would be the 'Cloaked Dancer', Maybe a Sublime Chord who dances up a literal storm..

That would be the safest party ever.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Don't forget the Bard feat Snowflake Wardance, Dervish, and I believe there is a Battledancer PrC.

[Atamasama]

I think that more of the class will be explained in the upcoming "Electric Boogaloo" expansion.

[Swooper]

Because the thought of the wizard waking up every morning then breakdancing for 20-30 minutes to become a perpetually persisted font of awesome is just cool.

This post made my day. Twice (I read it, forgot about it and then read it again )

Here, have a cookie.

[Vizen]

That would be the safest party ever.

Only if they're doing the Safety Dance.

[monty]

Only if they're doing the Safety Dance.

I see a problem with this, though. You'd have to leave your friends behind, unless they dance too.

That's what I was referencing

[TempusCCK]

Kobolds in the Dungeon, bringing people down.
And all she wants to do is dance.
Ambushed the PC camp like it was an All-you-Can-Eat.
And all she wants to do is dance.
She wants some magic,
She wants it twinked out.

All she wants to do is
All she wants to do is dance.

[Tacoma]

Just adding to this, you can have your Rogue or Ranger pick up Shadowdancer PrC. A Monk could be an interesting dancing thing - dance fighting only!

A Bard in the party would work pretty well to keep them all well-stocked with theme music. If the DM is feeling generous the Bard could use Perform: Dance instead of Perform: Specific Instrument or Perform: Singing for his Bardic abilities.

Of course you'd need a necromancer who specializes in necro-dancing ...

[theMycon]

Only if they're doing the Safety Dance.

You know, that dance wasn't as safe as they said it was.

[The Demented One]

Of course you'd need a necromancer who specializes in necro-dancing ...

Give me like, till tomorrow night on that one. I legitimately already have a thrilling homebrew prestige class for necrodancers in the works.

[monty]

Give me like, till tomorrow night on that one. I legitimately already have a thrilling homebrew prestige class for necrodancers in the works.

All right, I gotta see this.

[Glyphic]

*subtly indicates that someone should turn the theoretical party into a PbP game that Glyphic could play in*

[Zeful]

*subtly indicates that someone should turn the theoretical party into a PbP game that Glyphic could play in*

Hey I think Glyphic wants you guys to start a PbP game so he can play.

Also breakdancing Merlin is the single coolest mental image I've had in a very long time.