As I appear to be the first... sneaky peek at PHB 2 classes/races

[Charity]

Over on Hordelings there are some PHB 2 character sheets, they have been there a while...

All the Delve Characters in the Delve at DDXP are characters from the players handbook 2

Looky looky

Go nuts

[bosssmiley]

Dang it. If they'd dumped out Warlord and Warlock and added a couple of *these* classes to 4E's PHB1 I might have less of a hate on for the game.
Also, LA-less Goliath *squeeeee!* noises drown out my lingering Gnome HAET.

I presume that 4E Deva : 3E Aasimar :: 4E Eladrin : 3E Grey Elf?

[Charity]

Yup pretty much... and scroll down for the Half orc defender, he's pretty funky.

PHB 2 is out soon my lil 3e grognard

They seem to added a summoning mechanic that they are happy with, and an interesting new take on the striker and leader schticks... shame my paladunce won't be able to benifit much as there seems to be int dependency... ah well roll on Divine power.

[how's the snow up there?]

[Thurbane]

You might wanna throw some [4E] tags around the topic title, as I was about to reply that I got the PHB 2 a long, long time ago...

[bosssmiley]

Yup pretty much... and scroll down for the Half orc defender, he's pretty funky.

Avenger? Is that an intentional homage to BECMI's Chaos Paladin class? And are those racial Dex & Wis bonuses, for a Half-Orc?

PHB 2 is out soon my lil 3e grognard

Don't joke about that. I've been lurking Dragonsfoot and Knights & Knaves, and poking around some of the more accessible grog-blogs, in recent weeks. It seems my recent "simplify, then add lightness" rejigging binge is drawing me inexorably in the direction of...The Retroclones.

If I don't take care I'm going to end up a crazy THAC0-loving stylite like Matthew.

"We gnaw all our own dice from driftwood, and used untanned hides for battlemats! Miniatures? Pick a characterful pebble you sybaritic heathen."

They seem to added a summoning mechanic that they are happy with, and an interesting new take on the striker and leader schticks... shame my paladunce won't be able to benifit much as there seems to be int dependency... ah well roll on Divine power.

[how's the snow up there?]

A scattering only here in the blessed city (which is - in all seriousness - usually an island of clement weather). We hardy northerners mock the puny-weakyness of your southern transportation systems.

[Charity]

Wheras we softies are just weeping that we can't get into work, and are having to stay home building snowmen... (ok I'm at work now but I did get one snowday)
Heres hoping we don't get any more snow eh...

Don't joke about that. I've been lurking Dragonsfoot and Knights & Knaves, and poking around some of the more accessible grog-blogs, in recent weeks. It seems my recent "simplify, then add lightness" rejigging binge is drawing me inexorably in the direction of...The Retroclones.

If I don't take care I'm going to end up a crazy THAC0-loving stylite like Matthew.

"We gnaw all our own dice from driftwood, and used untanned hides for battlemats! Miniatures? Pick a characterful pebble you sybaritic heathen."

You are being drawn into orbit around his retro-singularity soon all Geordieland will become Grognardia...

erm I know I left a topic around here some place.. aha!

STR and Wis I believe all the characters are made with the 16, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10 array.

[ericgrau]

While I like miniatures I find it kind of annoying that the character portrait is the mini on a stand. They could have at least removed the stand from the picture. Kinda detracts from the imaginary view of the PC.

[Suleman]

While I like miniatures I find it kind of annoying that the character portrait is the mini on a stand. They could have at least removed the stand from the picture. Kinda detracts from the imaginary view of the PC.

Eh, they did that with the PHB1 preview characters, too. Doesn't mean you have to use it.

[Charity]

In case any of you are suspicious Allouicious’s


OK here is the Deva Shaman

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Her powers

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Goliath Barbarian

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His powers

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Warforged Warden

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It’s powers

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Elf Sorcerer

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His powers

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Tiefling Invoker

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Her powers

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Gnome Bard

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Her powers

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Half orc Avenger

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His powers

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[Blue Paladin]

Avenger? Is that an intentional homage to BECMI's Chaos Paladin class?

Hmm. Am I just that old?

*looks over at Red Box, whose set of dice have been in continuous use for over 25 years*

Apparently so. Long long ago, in an edition far far away, fighters could become Paladins (Lawful) or Avengers (Chaotic) when hitting level 10(? it's been too long...). Can't remember what Neutrals were. My age is obviously getting to me :P

If I don't take care I'm going to end up a crazy THAC0-loving stylite like Matthew.

Mmm. Delicious THAC0...

[Mando Knight]

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...What is this "Weapon Expertise" feat? Is it a juicy +1 to hit? Let's check the basic attack bonus...
(Breakdown: +7 = +2 Proficiency, +2 Strength, +1 (1/2 level), +1 Magic, +1 ???)
Yes, I do believe that is what it is. Delicioussss...

[Vortling]

I have to say I'm disappointed after taking a look at the races. The Deva appears to have +Wis +Int. I was really hoping they'd be +Wis +Cha. At this point there's really no excuse for the complete lack of +Wis +Cha races. It's frustrating to not have a decent race for playing clerics.

[hamlet]

Don't joke about that. I've been lurking Dragonsfoot and Knights & Knaves, and poking around some of the more accessible grog-blogs, in recent weeks. It seems my recent "simplify, then add lightness" rejigging binge is drawing me inexorably in the direction of...The Retroclones.

If I don't take care I'm going to end up a crazy THAC0-loving stylite like Matthew.

"We gnaw all our own dice from driftwood, and used untanned hides for battlemats! Miniatures? Pick a characterful pebble you sybaritic heathen."

Welcome to the Dark Side.

We have cookies.

[Hzurr]

I have to say I'm disappointed after taking a look at the races. The Deva appears to have +Wis +Int. I was really hoping they'd be +Wis +Cha. At this point there's really no excuse for the complete lack of +Wis +Cha races. It's frustrating to not have a decent race for playing clerics.

Yes, but now you can make your wizard with thunderwave even more awesome.

But yes, I agree that it's odd to not have a wis/cha race yet.

[RTGoodman]

You might wanna throw some [4E] tags around the topic title, as I was about to reply that I got the PHB 2 a long, long time ago...

Heh, I did the same.

Thanks for these previews by the way. In other news, it doesn't look like Goliaths wield big weapons anymore... (Unless I've missed something.)

[Yakk]

+1 to hit with a weapon seems like a bad idea.

Alternative Theory: Use Dex with your weapon instead of Strength for basic attacks (attack rolls only, not damage).

In fact, this could be per-weapon.

Something like:

Weapon Expertise (Spears or Light Blades or Heavy Blades): When using a Basic Attack or Weapon power that uses Str for the attack roll, substitute Dex for Str. This has no impact on damage.

Weapon Expertise (Polearms): When using a Basic Attack or Weapon power that uses Str for the attack roll, substitute Wis for Str. This has no impact on damage.

Weapon Expertise (Axes or Hammer/Mace or Staff): When using a Basic Attack or Weapon power that uses Str for the attack roll, substitute Con for Str. This has no impact on damage.

The secondary stat of most weapons is already well defined (fighter powers and the feats for the weapon). Even with these feats, you end up being worse than someone who just pumps Str with the weapon...

[Oslecamo]

It's just my impression, or are the new classes more complex?

The sorcer in particular will demand a lot of extra rolling, and the powers also seem to take up more space.

[Mando Knight]

+1 to hit with a weapon seems like a bad idea.

Alternative Theory: Use Dex with your weapon instead of Strength for basic attacks (attack rolls only, not damage).

I doubt that. Here's a close up of the daily, with the fuzzy-resolution to-hit circled:

It appears to be a +8. Breakdown: +3 (Dexterity or Wisdom) +2 (Proficiency) +1 (Magic weapon) +1 (1/2 level) +1 ??? = +8. Weapon Expertise does seem to grant a +1 bonus to attack rolls with the chosen weapon group.

[Starbuck_II]

Sorcerors get Chromatic orb. I loved that 2nd edition spell.

[Crossfiyah]

So...2 questions:

Are Warforged in PHBII or did they use the Eberron Warforged?

We STILL don't have a look at the Druid? Seriously?

[RTGoodman]

So...2 questions:

Are Warforged in PHBII or did they use the Eberron Warforged?

We STILL don't have a look at the Druid? Seriously?

1. I believe the Warforged race got a re-write in one of the Dragon Magazines, and that's the new "official" PC Warforged write-up. It might also be in some Eberron book later this year, and if not it'll almost CERTAINLY be in the Dragon Annual Compendium, Vol. 1, that compiles everything from the past year's worth of Dragon Mag stuff (due out sometime this Fall).

2. There in fact HAS been a Druid preview. If you're an Insider subscriber you can check out levels 1-3 HERE, or if you're not just take a look at THIS thread where we discussed the 4E in depth.

[Matthew]

Awesome! I can play the Beyonce class in D20/4e!

Seriously, though, interesting preview. If my thief dies in our current D20/4e game (not improbable after our last encounter), maybe the game master will let me select a class to try from this book.

As to THAC0 and Dragonsfoot, well you know my opinions... I hope you paid attention to the fourteen page lucern hammer thread, Bosssmiley! (you don't happen to go by "GeordieRacer" over on the S&W forums do you, by the by?)

[Kurald Galain]

...What is this "Weapon Expertise" feat? Is it a juicy +1 to hit?

It would appear so, but I wonder if it has any prereqs? (edit) There's also Implement Expertise, apparently. I think every character will probably want either of those, +1 to-hit is much stronger than nearly every feat in the PHB.

The Deva appears to have +Wis +Int. I was really hoping they'd be +Wis +Cha. At this point there's really no excuse for the complete lack of +Wis +Cha races.

OTOH, there wasn't a wis/int race so far, either. It's frustrating to not have a decent race for playing orbizards

It's just my impression, or are the new classes more complex?

It's not just you. I noticed several previews ago that the new classes seem to be more convoluted than PHB classes. There's actually several reasons why this is a good idea. PHB is the first thing novice players see, so it has to be simple. But long-term players will arguably want more options, and added complexity is needed to avoid running out of design space. Note how both Magic cards and 3.5 sourcebooks use the same strategy.

[KKL]

OTOH, there wasn't a wis/int race so far, either. It's frustrating to not have a decent race for playing orbizards

Elves are good stuff for Orbizards, and Elven High Mage is :D. But yeah, Deva are crazy cool.

And on another note, as I've said before, I'm looking especially towards the Con builds for the Shaman and Invoker. The rest are average on my list of DO WANT.

[bosssmiley]

Awesome! I can play the Beyonce class in D20/4e!

Moving swiftly on from the can of worms I have *no* intention of opening...

As to THAC0 and Dragonsfoot, well you know my opinions... I hope you paid attention to the fourteen page lucern hammer thread, Bosssmiley! (you don't happen to go by "GeordieRacer" over on the S&W forums do you, by the by?)

Not me mate. I'm just lurking as yet.

[Charity]

Oooooo you filthy lurker.

I have to say I'm disappointed after taking a look at the races. The Deva appears to have +Wis +Int. I was really hoping they'd be +Wis +Cha. At this point there's really no excuse for the complete lack of +Wis +Cha races. It's frustrating to not have a decent race for playing clerics.

Check out the Half orc with his bonus to Str and Wis, he seems to fit the criteria of a good cleric race, dwarves and elves are pretty good too, not that many + to Int races out there at the moment either.

It would appear so, but I wonder if it has any prereqs? (edit) There's also Implement Expertise, apparently. I think every character will probably want either of those, +1 to-hit is much stronger than nearly every feat in the PHB.

They seem to be just a boring +1 everybodies gonna want it feat tax... sigh.
For Matt

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[Oslecamo]

But long-term players will arguably want more options, and added complexity is needed to avoid running out of design space.

Well that's really a breath of fresh air. Now if they just erratad the whole "multiclass just once" thingy we could start to have some heavy optimization fun.:D

Note how both Magic cards and 3.5 sourcebooks use the same strategy.

Wich is really creeping me out. The ilustrations on 4e look just the same kind of style as the last magic cards in my opinion, and even the mechanics seem to be geting closer, altough I think that's already my whole "Wotc is slowly turning D&D into a quick board game like magic" paranoia

[Matthew]

Moving swiftly on from the can of worms I have *no* intention of opening...

Not me mate. I'm just lurking as yet.

Interesting, another Geordie, then.

For Matt

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Got me lookin so crazy right now
Your love's got me lookin so crazy right now
(Your love)
Got me lookin so crazy right now your touch's
Got me lookin so crazy right now
(Your touch)
Got me hoping you page me right now your kiss's
Got me hoping you save me right now
Lookin so crazy your love's got me lookin
Got me lookin so crazy your love

[Kaiyanwang]

Hmm. Am I just that old?

*looks over at Red Box, whose set of dice have been in continuous use for over 25 years*

Apparently so. Long long ago, in an edition far far away, fighters could become Paladins (Lawful) or Avengers (Chaotic) when hitting level 10(? it's been too long...). Can't remember what Neutrals were. My age is obviously getting to me :P

At least in the italian edition, neutral fighters didn't have similar options. They continued their career as fighters.

BTW, times when the druid was a Neutral cleric that made a choose for life.

Gods.. I am OLD.

[vicente408]

Wich is really creeping me out. The ilustrations on 4e look just the same kind of style as the last magic cards in my opinion, and even the mechanics seem to be geting closer, altough I think that's already my whole "Wotc is slowly turning D&D into a quick board game like magic" paranoia

Well, similar art isn't unexpected, seeing as many artists employed by WotC do art for both Magic and D&D. I don't think similar art direction would really have much to do with a conspiracy as such, but those who want to believe will believe.