Dealing with thieves in the party

[Zergrusheddie]

Most parties have a Rogue in the party; they do decent melee damage and are excellent for the amount of skills they get. However, I fear that in our current campaign the Rogue will be trying to skim some cash off of the top. Our characters don't know, but we as players will know damn well what's going on.

Is there a way to ensure that the Rogue does not steal from the party? This is an Evil Campaign, so if the Rogue actually steals for the party he is likely to be the subject of Animate Dead rather than Raise Dead.
How have you people dealt with Rogues who seem to be wearing Mithril Chain while everyone else is scrapping for Chain?

The Rogue has not stolen anything yet, and I'm not sure that he will. However, I've had problems with thieves in the group before and it usually ends with people shouting at each other and storming off. This is something I would like to avoid so I'm wondering if there are any precautions that can be made.

EDIT: I suck at the explanation thing. Maybe this will help you help us.

Best of luck
-Eddie

[Dallas-Dakota]

I say the rogue damn deserves it since usually most of it functions are able to be done by others.

Example : Pick lock? - Bash down door.

He just better hide his shinies.

[Myou]

Cast Zone of Truth then ask if he's cheating you?

[BobVosh]

I say the rogue damn deserves it since usually most of it functions are able to be done by others.

Example : Pick lock? - Bash down door.

He just better hide his shinies.

Your reasoning for why he should be able to take monies is that he is worthless? O.o

I take it this is low level if Mithril chain is a big thing? Just wait for a chance to beat his bluff/sleight of hand/etc. He has at most a ~+10. One time he will roll low and you will roll high. Bam, instant money if you can get em.

[arguskos]

If you catch him... shoot him. Stealing from allies is not an acceptable course of action, so he deserves to be stung for doing so (this is coming from someone who keeps Magic Missile prepared all day every day for this exact reason).

If you don't catch him in the act, but discover it later... take all his stuff and divide it amongst the party (him included). This reminds the rogue that he's still part of the team, and ya'll just want your share of the spoils.

If you never catch him, then go him. He's good enough to steal and get away with it, he deserves to keep it.

[Prak]

give the evil party a reason to not be "punks*"( to one another)?

seriously, just because a person is evil doesn't mean they feel the need to be a "punk*" all the fraking time to everyone they meet. They could be friends, it could be professional courtesy, maybe they're under a gaes, maybe they're in the mob and family or "damn near as".

Pick something, just try to stay the hell away from MAD, more evil games get ruined by Chaotic Stupid/Idiotic Evil players and MAD diplomacy than anything else.


*loving this filter.... really, I am... No, this tone is how I always talk... I'm not being sarcastic, seriously, I love this filter supreme benevolent overlords, truly you have the ultimate wisdom in what words are too horrible to be spoken...

[Aquillion]

I say the rogue damn deserves it since usually most of it functions are able to be done by others.

Example : Pick lock? - Bash down door.

This isn't really true. It's pretty hard to easily substitute for passive checks like Spot, Listen, and Sense Motive, and the substitutes for social skills like Bluff and Diplomacy tend to have limitations; while many other abilities (like Move Silently or Disguise) work even better when combined with magical options. Also, many traps (like alarms) can't be so easily bashed down.

[Dallas-Dakota]

Gwah. *is attacked on all sides*
Forgive me if I was wrong, I haven't played DnD in a loong time.

[ufo]

If your characters have no idea he's stealing, this is a case of extreme metagaming.

[arguskos]

Gwah. *is attacked on all sides*
Forgive me if I was wrong, I haven't played DnD in a loong time.

I wouldn't say you are wrong, just that maybe a rogue who steals from the party clearly isn't interesting in being a team player, that's all. Rogues are plenty useful if given a chance to be so and if they attempt to be so. A rogue who just steals from his "friends" is asking be be strung up and flogged to death.

[Tengu_temp]

If your characters have no idea he's stealing, this is a case of extreme metagaming.

You're saying this as if it was a bad thing.

[lesser_minion]

If your characters have no idea he's stealing, this is a case of extreme metagaming.

Not really - the characters can quite easily become suspicious. Of course, then there is always this problem.

EDIT - Aargh! ninj- *shing* :gurgle:

[ufo]

If you're planning for your characters to become aware, it's still metagaming.

If this is a genuine problem and not just a minor nuisance, approach him outside of the game and tell him not to steal your ****.

[MickJay]

If your characters have no idea he's stealing, this is a case of extreme metagaming.

I would have thought this was a case of extreme lack of metagaming

[Kioran]

First off, clear with the other players out of character whether this is a friendly (some basic rules are to be followed, but PCs are also safe from some things) or no-holds-barred campaign (with the PCs facing the full consequences of their actions, but have little restrictions on them and my indeed in-fight). If it's a friendly campaign, there is no theft. If not, well, the Rogue gets away with whatever he can get away with, but runs a risk.

If the other players really want to increase the likelihood of their characters noticing the theft, without initial suspicion, that's indeed metagaming. But once they are suspicious, the Rogue is fair game.
And should be killed painfully, protractedly and messily. It's an evil party after all. And even a good party would probably beat their "Haley" senseless before relieving her off almost all her possessions/ill-gotten gains.

Stealing from comrades is one of the most vile offenses amongst brothers in arms. It's also punished by hanging during a war, and for good reason. The rogue may steal to his heart's content, but no crying foul when he gets his comeuppance.

[Zergrusheddie]

Wow, lot's of posts rather quickly.
It's not that we have any reason to suspect him yet, we just don't want it to actually happen.

The reason I choose Mithril as an example comes from poor assumptions; Mithril is 10 times as expensive in this game, simply because the DM hates the ASF subtraction.
So, just using a Sense Motive check every time the loot is split should help reduce the chance?

[Kurald Galain]

Put it like this...

The fighter's job is to stab people until they die. Unless the fighter is a [censored], he won't be stabbing his teammates. If he is a [censored], why on earth are you traveling with him?

Now replace "fighter" with "rogue", and "stabbing people" with "stealing stuff"...

[hamishspence]

on board ship, its not hanging but very painful "running the guantlet" thats usual.

But yes, BoVD and Savage Species do point out evil characters can see the gain in dealing honestly with each other.

[Kaelaroth]

I suggest a Mark of Justice. Right now.

[JellyPooga]

To my mind, it all depends on the level of thievery. If he's just stealing a few gold and silvers for knick-knacks and baubles, that's fine. If he's piking your Cure Serious Wounds potion or your Dragon Slaying arrow (and selling it), then that starts jeopardises the party and is not acceptable.

Style counts as well...for example, a Rogue that steals a lot from the party, but also gives a lot back (e.g. by stealing from NPC's too, then using the total stolen gold to go buy a bunch of potions for party use) should not be punished too greatly if discovered (if at all).

Likewise, if the Rogue just wants to get rid of those 'itchy fingers', he could steal stuff but return it (covertly of course) a few days later. Party members will find stuff dis- and re-appearing seemingly at random. If discovered, the rogue can merely say that he's done no harm and was only 'keeping in hand in practice'.

[Leon]

If you don't catch him in the act, but discover it later... take all his stuff and divide it amongst the party (him included). This reminds the rogue that he's still part of the team, and ya'll just want your share of the spoils.

Since its a Evil party, Divide him amongst the party

[Thane of Fife]

Put it like this...

The fighter's job is to stab people until they die. Unless the fighter is a [censored], he won't be stabbing his teammates. If he is a [censored], why on earth are you traveling with him?

Now replace "fighter" with "rogue", and "stabbing people" with "stealing stuff"...

Well, the obvious answer would be that there's this dungeon, and it's full of nasty traps, and somebody's got to disarm them....

[Maltore]

Given that the characters aren't aware of this, this is an outgame problem and needs to be solved ooc. Tell your DM and the rogue player that this is making the game less fun for you.

Try to get both involved to find a solution that suits all of you. After all, perhaps the rogue player has been waiting forever to get into an evil campaign where he could truely roleplay a selfish klepto who isn't hindered by 'I can't steal from my party members because that wouldn't be nice'.

Off the top of my head suggestions (foregoing the obvious "no using your powers/skills against other PC's"):

* The DM makes sure that, even if the rogue can cream off the regular loot, you all stay at the same wealth level. The npc wizard you helped rewards each of you with an item, the rogue's being worth less than the others. The party slaughters a temple of Heironeous, which pleases the party cleric's god so much that he personally comes down and upgrades the cleric's +1 full plate to +2. The fighter gets a substantial discount at the Magic Item Store because the girl at the desk likes his face. I think you get the idea.

* You all agree that playing dirty is allowed. No whining about the rogue having loose hands. No whining if the Necromancer uses Vampiric Touch on a party member because he is conveniently close. No whining if you are found stealing and the Beguiler thinks mindrape is an adequate response. Personally I would never want to play like this, but then again I like paladins. To each his own.

* The rogue makes it into a running gag to see how much he can steal and then showcase it to his friends (the party), at which point everything is returned. "Say, cleric, what time is it? - Lemme check,.. hey, where's my watch? - I don't know, oh, hey, what's that behind your ear?" This could end up very funny if it's roleplayed well.

[togapika]

Well, the obvious answer would be that there's this dungeon, and it's full of nasty traps, and somebody's got to disarm them....

His dead body being thrown at any possible traps would work just as well....

[Om]

Given that the characters aren't aware of this, this is an outgame problem and needs to be solved ooc. Tell your DM and the rogue player that this is making the game less fun for you

That's the exact point that I was about to make. In my experience, admittedly not directly applicable, the search for IC solutions to OOC problems never ends well. You're far better keeping to two spheres separate and dealing with OOC issues outside of the roleplay mechanics

But then, I find it hard to see any roleplaying objections to an evil thief skimming the profits

[Dixieboy]

I can honestly not see the problem with a rogue stealing

[Callos_DeTerran]

So...let me get this straight. Your problem is your party thief might be trying to skim gold off the top in an evil campaign and you want advice about to stop the crime before it happens based on OOC knowledge alone?

...Yeah, there's something wrong here and I don't think it's your thieving problems. This isn't like a case of loot being divied up and then the guy stealing stuff that is rightly yours in your sleep, this is about the thief taking some of the gold out of some treasure he found before turning it over to the party to divide up into equal portions when it's still free game. If anything I'd count you lucky that he's not just taking it all and saying he didn't find anything.

More importantly, what's the harm in it? I've played a klepto-thief just once, and whenever I found a particularly large horde or something before the party did I'd squirrel away a couple gemstones or couple hundred gold pieces without telling anyone. I never spent them, I loaned them out to my party members whenever they were short on cash to seem like a nicer guy to them and picking up an extremely low-rate interest that compensated me for my own personal losses with legitimate cash. It also formed a bond with my party, even if it was just one of owing debts to someone which can be highly important in evil groups to keep it together since the lawful evil or neutral evil party members will at least think about the debt at times and the fact they have someone so free with loaning their own cash before turning on them.

In other words, I'm not agreeing with the other posters or your own decision that this is a problem because you don't even know if the thief will be successful or what he plans on doing with the money.

[RebelRogue]

It boils down to: don't be a jerk to the other player (or DM for that matter) even though "it's what my character/alignment/whatever would do". The Giant has written an excellent article that covers this (and other issues): http://www.giantitp.com/articles/tll...4H9k6efFP.html

[Dixieboy]

It boils down to: don't be a jerk to the other player (or DM for that matter) even though "it's what my character/alignment/whatever would do". The Giant has written an excellent article that covers this (and other issues): http://www.giantitp.com/articles/tll...4H9k6efFP.html

Really...

Firstly off we are being told everyone is evil
He's a rogue
And since the others have not noticed he cannot be stealing anything major

So it all comes down to the other players being whiny IMO

[RebelRogue]

Really...

Firstly off we are being told everyone is evil
He's a rogue
And since the others have not noticed he cannot be stealing anything major

So it all comes down to the other players being whiny IMO

Maybe the players a whiny, maybe they're not mature enough to handle playing Evil. And maybe not. It's hard to tell form this. But in the end, if your fellow players think there's a problem, well then there is a problem!