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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default [4e]Half Elves fighting the darkness!

    The Dilettante racial feature of Half elves allows then to choose another classes At-Will power, and it becomes an encounter power for them. However, the Wizard classes Magic Missile At-Will power specifically states that it can be used as a Basic Ranged attack. If it's used in this manner, doesn't it become an At-Will power instead of an encounter power since Basic Attacks are always At-Will? Which rule is more specific in this case?

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: [4e]Half Elves fighting the darkness!

    It can be considered a basic ranged attack for the purposes of anything that runs off of or requires or lets you use a basic ranged attack. Like I think there's new powers out there for the warlord that allow an ally to use a basic ranged attack.

    So I'd say that, were a warlord to trigger something like that, the half-elf could expend his encounter power to take advantage of it.

    I've not read the latest splats, though, so I don't know how many things there are that would allow something like that.

    Short answer: No, it's not an at-will. It just allows the encounter power to use or be used by anything that needs a basic ranged attack.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NecroRebel's Avatar

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    Default Re: [4e]Half Elves fighting the darkness!

    A basic attack isn't always an at-will. What gave you that idea? It does just so happen that basic melee attacks, basic ranged attacks, Magic Missile, and Eldritch Blast are all at-will powers that are also basic attacks, but that does not mean that all basic attacks are at-will powers.

    If you're going by the first sentence in the "basic attacks" section of the PHB, read the whole sentence. It says "A basic attack is an at-will power that everyone possesses, regardless of class." Not everyone possesses Magic Missile and/or Eldritch Blast regardless of class, so clearly these are somewhat-different things.

    So, to answer your question, a Half-Elf's Delittante power is an encounter power. If it is Magic Missile or Eldritch Blast, it is an encounter power that, curiously enough, can be used as a ranged basic attack. These things are not contradictory.

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    Kurald Galain's Avatar

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    Default Re: [4e]Half Elves fighting the darkness!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tokiko Mima View Post
    If it's used in this manner, doesn't it become an At-Will power instead of an encounter power since Basic Attacks are always At-Will?
    By the rules, no (because dilettante doesn't say that it does). On the other hand, given that MM is one of the weaker at-wills in the game anyway, it wouldn't hurt anyone if you ruled it that way.
    Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: [4e]Half Elves fighting the darkness!

    Ok, so to be clear: the consensus is that a Half Elf could only use Magic Missile as a basic ranged attack once per encounter, even if the Half elf was allowed to make more than one basic ranged attack. The Dilettante text is therefore more specific than the Magic Missile entry itself, so Magic Missile's Special text entry is only actually useful to a Wizard who doesn't want to wield a ranged weapon. And just because something is a basic attack doesn't make it At-Will, even though basic attacks are defined as being At-Will.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NecroRebel's Avatar

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    Default Re: [4e]Half Elves fighting the darkness!

    Yes, except that last sentence.

    Basic attacks are not "defined" as at-will powers. It just so happens that some at-will powers are basic attacks, but this does not mean that all basic attacks are at-will powers. You've discovered a basic attack that is not an at-will power, after all.

    The powers that everyone possesses called "Basic Melee Attack" and "Basic Ranged Attack" are at-will powers, and both can be used as basic attacks. "Magic Missile" is also normally an at-will power that can be used as a basic attack. Delittanted, though, it becomes an encounter power that can be used as a basic attack once per encounter.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: [4e]Half Elves fighting the darkness!

    It counts as a basic attack for the purposes of things that grant basic attacks, that's it.

    I think that Swordmages have a number of encounter powers that say 'can be used in place of a melee basic attack' but that doesn't mean they can use them at will.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: [4e]Half Elves fighting the darkness!

    Quote Originally Posted by Asbestos View Post
    It counts as a basic attack for the purposes of things that grant basic attacks, that's it.

    I think that Swordmages have a number of encounter powers that say 'can be used in place of a melee basic attack' but that doesn't mean they can use them at will.
    This.

    More specifically.
    You use it once an encounter.
    You have an option to expend this encounter power even if you would normally only get a basic ranged attack.


    You're over thinking this, or trying to break this.

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    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kurald Galain's Avatar

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    Default Re: [4e]Half Elves fighting the darkness!

    Quote Originally Posted by NecroRebel View Post
    Basic attacks are not "defined" as at-will powers. It just so happens that some at-will powers are basic attacks, but this does not mean that all basic attacks are at-will powers.
    Precisely.

    For instance, "bluff to gain CA" is a basic attack (as in, everybody can use it) that can be used once per encounter.
    Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.

    "I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
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    Troll in the Playground
     
    Totally Guy's Avatar

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    Default Re: [4e]Half Elves fighting the darkness!

    Ranged basic attack (P287) actually specifies that Magic Missile can be a basic ranged attack for a wizard. Which prompts the question, are you a wizard? If you are then you don't qualify for Magic Missle through diletantte.

    But that brings us full circle for a wizard and warlock multiclass.

    Maybe there is a way to abuse RAW by saying that Basic ranged states Wizards can use magic missile regardless of whether they chose that power at all.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: [4e]Half Elves fighting the darkness!

    Quote Originally Posted by Glug View Post
    Maybe there is a way to abuse RAW by saying that Basic ranged states Wizards can use magic missile regardless of whether they chose that power at all.
    What? That doesn't work at all.

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