Warforged Monk

[Kommisar Engel]

What happens when a warforged takes a level in monk?
Does the Improved Unarmed Strike become Improved Natural Attack and damage progression is altered or does nothing happen?

Just curious since a warforged does not have an unarmed strike and thinking of making a warforged monk

[Zergrusheddie]

Warforged don't have an Unarmed Strike? Thought they did, but I havn't looked at Eberron in a while so I'm probably wrong. It would probably just be based on your size (1d6 for Medium and 1d8 for Large). Remember that Monks can take Improved Natural Attack to up their damage modifier.

Hope this helps.
-Eddie

[AslanCross]

Warforged have a natural slam attack, so they don't need Improved Unarmed Strike to begin with (all that does is negate the AOO for attacking with unarmed attacks and allow for lethal unarmed strikes; as a natural weapon, the Warforged's slam is already lethal and avoids provoking AOOs). I don't know if this takes the place of an unarmed strike, but I think it would be sensible for the slam attack to improve via the monk unarmed strike progression table.

[Prime32]

Every creature can use unarmed strikes. Warforged have a slam attack in addition to this.

[Zen Monkey]

If their normal unarmed attack is treated as improved, then I don't see why taking a level of monk would somehow make them less proficient with their fists.

Really, once you accept that a robot can somehow turn into a bear (warforged druids all seem like bad transformers jokes), then any other bending of the rules seems pretty minor and logical.

[JackMage666]

Welll, by the same token, would something with a claw attack need unarmed strike? It's a natural attack, at the hands (possibly feet as well), so would this take the place of a monks unarmed strike?

Simple answer, no. Unarmed Strike is not the same as a Natural attack, even a Slam attack. Though similar, they are not the same. A Warforged Monk, then, would be able to use his Unarmed Strike as his primary attack, and his Slam as his secondary (and, thus, at a -5 penalty, unless you used Multi-attack.) if he uses a full-attack, of course.

Correct me if I'm wrong, please, but that's my understanding of this.

[Telonius]

What happens when a warforged takes a level in monk?

He becomes very sad if he doesn't also take the Unarmored Body feat. Regular Warforged are considered to be armored, which negates most of the Monk features. Keep that in mind as you're building the character.

Does the Improved Unarmed Strike become Improved Natural Attack and damage progression is altered or does nothing happen?

Just curious since a warforged does not have an unarmed strike and thinking of making a warforged monk

Here's the key part of the rules for this:

Creatures do not receive additional attacks from a high base attack bonus when using natural weapons. The number of attacks a creature can make with its natural weapons depends on the type of the attack—generally, a creature can make one bite attack, one attack per claw or tentacle, one gore attack, one sting attack, or one slam attack (although Large creatures with arms or arm-like limbs can make a slam attack with each arm). Refer to the individual monster descriptions.

So a Slam attack is not the same thing as an unarmed strike. It's easier to use a Fighter as an example to illustrate this. If a Warforged Fighter 20 doesn't have a manufactured weapon on him, he can make only one slam attack per round, not four. He can use an Unarmed Attack to get four attacks in a round, but he'd use the Unarmed Damage table, not the Slam Attack damage.

The Monk's Unarmed Attack bonus applies to Unarmed Damage, not to the Slam Attack.

I'm not completely certain about this, but if your Warforged Monk took the Improved Natural Attack feat, the wording seems to suggest that you would have to choose only one of the creature's natural attacks to apply the bonus. If I were DM, I'd make you choose either the Slam attack or the Unarmed Damage progression.

[Artanis]

He becomes very sad if he doesn't also take the Unarmored Body feat. Regular Warforged are considered to be armored, which negates most of the Monk features. Keep that in mind as you're building the character.

No they don't.

They get stuff that looks like armor, that gives AC like armor, and that can be enchanted like armor...but it isn't armor. Not as far as Monk abilities are concerned, at any rate.

[NEO|Phyte]

No they don't.

They get stuff that looks like armor, that gives AC like armor, and that can be enchanted like armor...but it isn't armor. Not as far as Monk abilities are concerned, at any rate.

We just had a thread on this not too long ago, as I recall.

[Telonius]

Just googled and read that thread ... I never bought RoE, but man, what a weird rule. What's the point of the Unarmored Body feat? It brings a 5% ACF chance down to a 0%, at the cost of a feat, 2AC, and Light Fortification... and this is supposed to be a good thing? I'd call that a Flaw, not a Feat.

[Fax Celestis]

Well, Unarmored Body lets you into Reforged.

As far as Warforged and Monk Strikes, what's said above is correct: the warforged's slam isn't an unarmed strike, it's a natural attack. As such, a monk's unarmed damage progression doesn't apply to the slam attack. HOWEVER, when making a full-attack (including a flurry of blows), the warforged can add his slam attack to the routine at a -5 penalty.

If you took Improved Natural Attack as a warforged monk, you could apply it to either your slam or your monk damage.

[MammonAzrael]

And don't forget, if you do take Improved Natural Attack, it only applies to either your slam attack or your unarmed strike, not both. Unless you take it a second time.

And if you're really set on a warforged monk (which is one of the best monk races), be sure to grab a battlefist. Seriously, don't forget it.

[MightyIgoo]

Why pick up one battlefist when you could pick up two? Seriously, with two you have a robot with _giant Popeye arms_. Which is actually much cooler than I just made it sound.

You could probably get away with one, rules-wise (I mean, I guess when you flurry it means you attack with that one hand _really fast_) but I feel that two battlefists are required, if only for aesthetic purposes. Otherwise your Warforged looks more like a kung-fu Hellboy.

[JerryMcJerrison]

Why pick up one battlefist when you could pick up two? Seriously, with two you have a robot with _giant Popeye arms_. Which is actually much cooler than I just made it sound.

I'm not sure what you mean. There's not really much else you can do to make Popeye arms sound cooler. Everything is better with giant Popeye arms. Robots. Monkeys. Bears. Spaceships. Popeye himself would have just been an unlikable wimp without those babies.

[MammonAzrael]

Why pick up one battlefist when you could pick up two?

I understand the thought behind this, but the reason you don't pick up two is because that would confer no mechanical advantage at all. You can't TWF unarmed strikes, IIRC, so you'd be buying the second purely for looks. And if that's the case, then just ask if you can look like you have one on each hand, like a pair of gauntlets.

[NEO|Phyte]

I prefer the lopsided look, it lets you say things like "This is my [verb]ing hand."

[Human Paragon 3]

On a similar note, could a war forged swordsage use his slam attack to deliver manuevers?

[NEO|Phyte]

On a similar note, could a war forged swordsage use his slam attack to deliver manuevers?

Unless you find a maneuver that requires a specific weapon, yes.

[Fax Celestis]

The same holds true for other creatures. Vampire initiators are especially scary: not only do they hit with their maneuver using a slam attack, but also inflict two negative levels.

[AslanCross]

Unless you find a maneuver that requires a specific weapon, yes.

Fortunately, none of them (at least in the ToB) do. It's the discipline-specific tactical feats that require favored weapons, but that's it.

[MammonAzrael]

Pff, don't fear the vampires. Fear the Petals that took Greater Insightful Strike. That little fist could pack quite the punch.

[MightyIgoo]

I understand the thought behind this, but the reason you don't pick up two is because that would confer no mechanical advantage at all. You can't TWF unarmed strikes, IIRC, so you'd be buying the second purely for looks. And if that's the case, then just ask if you can look like you have one on each hand, like a pair of gauntlets.

Well, yeah, it confers no mechanical advantage. It's paying double for what one would do just as easily, rules-wise. But flavor is what I'm all about, in this instance. And besides, you could theoretically enchant each with different elemental effects, right? Okay, maybe that suggestion's a little weak. All I know is, I'd feel silly with only one. I mean, what would I do with the other hand? Wave at my enemies? Flip them off? Hold my drink? Maybe the other hand would be an armbow. That's the only advantage I could think of, other than cost.

[Glyphic]

The same holds true for other creatures. Vampire initiators are especially scary: not only do they hit with their maneuver using a slam attack, but also inflict two negative levels.

I've always wondered how undead work with the "immortal fortitude" stance. I mean, they're immune to anything that requires a Fortitude save, and "immortal fortitude" requires one to negate a blow that takes you past Zero HP...

And then says that you're "Alive" with 1 hp remaining.

[monty]

I've always wondered how undead work with the "immortal fortitude" stance. I mean, they're immune to anything that requires a Fortitude save, and "immortal fortitude" requires one to negate a blow that takes you past Zero HP...

And then says that you're "Alive" with 1 hp remaining.

No, they're immune to most things that require a fort save, not all things. For example, Disintegrate.

[tyckspoon]

No, they're immune to most things that require a fort save, not all things. For example, Disintegrate.

Specifically, undead are immune to Fort-save effects that do not hurt objects. Since objects can be broken via HP damage from weapons and energy attacks, we can conclude that an undead initiator would not automatically pass his Fort save to survive such attacks. He would probably fail, given his type's poor Fort progression and no Con score, but one cannot be certain when dealing with a Martial Adept.

[loopy]

No, they're immune to most things that require a fort save, not all things. For example, Disintegrate.

*watches Glyphic's theory disappear in a puff of smoke*

[ShneekeyTheLost]

The same holds true for other creatures. Vampire initiators are especially scary: not only do they hit with their maneuver using a slam attack, but also inflict two negative levels.

Fear more the guy made a Vamp by abusing the capstone ability of Shadow Sun Ninja... not only is he a billy-badboop, but he's also immune to sunlight...

[Prime32]

Well, yeah, it confers no mechanical advantage. It's paying double for what one would do just as easily, rules-wise. But flavor is what I'm all about, in this instance. And besides, you could theoretically enchant each with different elemental effects, right?

Make one of them a defending weapon, the other a throwing returning weapon, and make both of them valorous (double damage on a charge). Get a magic item of lion's charge with the command phrase "Gemu giru gan go gufo"

[MightyIgoo]

Make one of them a defending weapon, the other a throwing returning weapon, and make both of them valorous (double damage on a charge). Get a magic item of lion's charge with the command phrase "Gemu giru gan go gufo"

That's what I'm talking about!

[AslanCross]

Make one of them a defending weapon, the other a throwing returning weapon, and make both of them valorous (double damage on a charge). Get a magic item of lion's charge with the command phrase "Gemu giru gan go gufo"

When he reaches his first level in Warforged Juggernaut, he is officially allowed to yell "VIIIITAAAAAAAAAAA!" after that.

Darn it, I so want to do this now.
/GGGTard.